Will Deal challenge a smart kid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Actually, I have wide-ranging experience as a HS guidance counselor at DC privates and MoCo test-in publics. DC parents (or ex DC parents) I deal with who've come through Deal tend to assume that their students are as well-prepared as the strongest students coming out of top privates and suburban MS GT programs. In my experience, this is very seldom the case. Unless parents have supplemented extensively from the upper elementary grades, or their kids are geniuses, there's catching up to do. The fact is that Deal doesn't offer formal pullout groups, or advanced classes for advanced students, in any subject but math, which generally isn't well taught in even the best DCPS elementary schools. Deal certainly isn't a bad school, but it's not set up to cater to the strongest students.

How well would an average kid from Deal do vs an average kid from Pyle? Same SES and parental educational level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Actually, I have wide-ranging experience as a HS guidance counselor at DC privates and MoCo test-in publics. DC parents (or ex DC parents) I deal with who've come through Deal tend to assume that their students are as well-prepared as the strongest students coming out of top privates and suburban MS GT programs. In my experience, this is very seldom the case. Unless parents have supplemented extensively from the upper elementary grades, or their kids are geniuses, there's catching up to do. The fact is that Deal doesn't offer formal pullout groups, or advanced classes for advanced students, in any subject but math, which generally isn't well taught in even the best DCPS elementary schools. Deal certainly isn't a bad school, but it's not set up to cater to the strongest students.

Please be specific. Well prepared in what sense? What aren't they learning that they need to know for high school?

[Anonymous]

Yes provide specifics, please PP. I find it hard to believe that bright/smart children from functional, highly educated households would not be scoring on par with other suburban schools since I have heard that Deal and Wilson test scores for this demographic are often better.

[Anonymous]

HS counselor here.

OK, so don't believe it. Believe whatever you want. Believe that differentiation in a Deal humanities classroom where some students work below grade level, others at grade level, and others ahead of grade level (possibly 2 or 3 years ahead) provides the best possible preparation for high school for the "smart kids" in the room. If differentiation in the classroom was guaranteed to bring out the best in every advanced MS student living in NW, why would any municipality in the country bother funding and running full-time middle school GT programs? This discussion pertains to challenging "smart kids" at Deal, not average kids.

If you really want an answer to your question, consider attending an open house at the Takoma Park MoCo MS Math/Sci Magnet, or the Eastern MS Humanities Magnet in Silver Spring, or, better yet, the Hunter College MS in NYC (they admit around 6% of 5th grade applicants).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:HS counselor here.

OK, so don't believe it. Believe whatever you want. Believe that differentiation in a Deal humanities classroom where some students work below grade level, others at grade level, and others ahead of grade level (possibly 2 or 3 years ahead) provides the best possible preparation for high school for the "smart kids" in the room. If differentiation in the classroom was guaranteed to bring out the best in every advanced MS student living in NW, why would any municipality in the country bother funding and running full-time middle school GT programs? This discussion pertains to challenging "smart kids" at Deal, not average kids.

If you really want an answer to your question, consider attending an open house at the Takoma Park MoCo MS Math/Sci Magnet, or the Eastern MS Humanities Magnet in Silver Spring, or, better yet, the Hunter College MS in NYC (they admit around 6% of 5th grade applicants).

You didn't answer the question (and you don't need to, and maybe you can't), but telling people to visit a school in a different state is not helpful as those schools are not options for our kids.

[Anonymous]

NP who disagrees. It is helpful to visit MoCo programs pushing advanced kids a lot harder than Deal does.

After visiting one of the programs, we were motivated to up our game. We hired a couple of good tutors, formed a history tutoring group for a few Dealies and applied for Johns Hopkins CTY at St. Stephens in Alexandria (3 weeks in July, writing program).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:HS counselor here.

OK, so don't believe it. Believe whatever you want. Believe that differentiation in a Deal humanities classroom where some students work below grade level, others at grade level, and others ahead of grade level (possibly 2 or 3 years ahead) provides the best possible preparation for high school for the "smart kids" in the room. If differentiation in the classroom was guaranteed to bring out the best in every advanced MS student living in NW, why would any municipality in the country bother funding and running full-time middle school GT programs? This discussion pertains to challenging "smart kids" at Deal, not average kids.

If you really want an answer to your question, consider attending an open house at the Takoma Park MoCo MS Math/Sci Magnet, or the Eastern MS Humanities Magnet in Silver Spring, or, better yet, the Hunter College MS in NYC (they admit around 6% of 5th grade applicants).

Do you mean that every single student going from Deal to private is behind? I've read the private school board for years and many people have said their kids haven't had a problem transitioning. Does that mean they are delusional? Could you, perhaps, have any biases?

In the same vein, I find it odd that every private offers extensive differentiation. A friend of mine pulled her kid out of a big-3 because the math wasn't challenging - though it was fine for her other kids. So many kids entered in pre-k and/or got sibling preference that it cannot be that every kid there is a super star.

People have narratives they need to back up and use random anecdotes to back it up. I've tried to be helpful - but I don't think answering these really do much. Likely the OP's have their minds made up; they now seek validation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HS counselor here.

OK, so don't believe it. Believe whatever you want. Believe that differentiation in a Deal humanities classroom where some students work below grade level, others at grade level, and others ahead of grade level (possibly 2 or 3 years ahead) provides the best possible preparation for high school for the "smart kids" in the room. If differentiation in the classroom was guaranteed to bring out the best in every advanced MS student living in NW, why would any municipality in the country bother funding and running full-time middle school GT programs? This discussion pertains to challenging "smart kids" at Deal, not average kids.

If you really want an answer to your question, consider attending an open house at the Takoma Park MoCo MS Math/Sci Magnet, or the Eastern MS Humanities Magnet in Silver Spring, or, better yet, the Hunter College MS in NYC (they admit around 6% of 5th grade applicants).

Do you mean that every single student going from Deal to private is behind? I've read the private school board for years and many people have said their kids haven't had a problem transitioning. Does that mean they are delusional? Could you, perhaps, have any biases?

In the same vein, I find it odd that every private offers extensive differentiation. A friend of mine pulled her kid out of a big-3 because the math wasn't challenging - though it was fine for her other kids. So many kids entered in pre-k and/or got sibling preference that it cannot be that every kid there is a super star.

People have narratives they need to back up and use random anecdotes to back it up. I've tried to be helpful - but I don't think answering these really do much. Likely the OP's have their minds made up; they now seek validation.

The college counselor poster caveated her statements.

She said that parents she'd worked with who had students coming out of Deal were surprised to find they were behind "magnet school students" and the "strongest students at top privates."

So not every suburban public. Not every student at every private.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HS counselor here.

OK, so don't believe it. Believe whatever you want. Believe that differentiation in a Deal humanities classroom where some students work below grade level, others at grade level, and others ahead of grade level (possibly 2 or 3 years ahead) provides the best possible preparation for high school for the "smart kids" in the room. If differentiation in the classroom was guaranteed to bring out the best in every advanced MS student living in NW, why would any municipality in the country bother funding and running full-time middle school GT programs? This discussion pertains to challenging "smart kids" at Deal, not average kids.

If you really want an answer to your question, consider attending an open house at the Takoma Park MoCo MS Math/Sci Magnet, or the Eastern MS Humanities Magnet in Silver Spring, or, better yet, the Hunter College MS in NYC (they admit around 6% of 5th grade applicants).

Do you mean that every single student going from Deal to private is behind? I've read the private school board for years and many people have said their kids haven't had a problem transitioning. Does that mean they are delusional? Could you, perhaps, have any biases?

In the same vein, I find it odd that every private offers extensive differentiation. A friend of mine pulled her kid out of a big-3 because the math wasn't challenging - though it was fine for her other kids. So many kids entered in pre-k and/or got sibling preference that it cannot be that every kid there is a super star.

People have narratives they need to back up and use random anecdotes to back it up. I've tried to be helpful - but I don't think answering these really do much. Likely the OP's have their minds made up; they now seek validation.

The college counselor poster caveated her statements.

She said that parents she'd worked with who had students coming out of Deal were surprised to find they were behind "magnet school students" and the "strongest students at top privates."

So not every suburban public. Not every student at every private.

No, she went way further than that (e.g., poo pooed the math programs from elementary school onward, etc. etc.).

[Anonymous]

I have known a few kids who went from Deal to Sidwell without issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HS counselor here.

OK, so don't believe it. Believe whatever you want. Believe that differentiation in a Deal humanities classroom where some students work below grade level, others at grade level, and others ahead of grade level (possibly 2 or 3 years ahead) provides the best possible preparation for high school for the "smart kids" in the room. If differentiation in the classroom was guaranteed to bring out the best in every advanced MS student living in NW, why would any municipality in the country bother funding and running full-time middle school GT programs? This discussion pertains to challenging "smart kids" at Deal, not average kids.

If you really want an answer to your question, consider attending an open house at the Takoma Park MoCo MS Math/Sci Magnet, or the Eastern MS Humanities Magnet in Silver Spring, or, better yet, the Hunter College MS in NYC (they admit around 6% of 5th grade applicants).

Do you mean that every single student going from Deal to private is behind? I've read the private school board for years and many people have said their kids haven't had a problem transitioning. Does that mean they are delusional? Could you, perhaps, have any biases?

In the same vein, I find it odd that every private offers extensive differentiation. A friend of mine pulled her kid out of a big-3 because the math wasn't challenging - though it was fine for her other kids. So many kids entered in pre-k and/or got sibling preference that it cannot be that every kid there is a super star.

People have narratives they need to back up and use random anecdotes to back it up. I've tried to be helpful - but I don't think answering these really do much. Likely the OP's have their minds made up; they now seek validation.

The college counselor poster caveated her statements.

She said that parents she'd worked with who had students coming out of Deal were surprised to find they were behind "magnet school students" and the "strongest students at top privates."

So not every suburban public. Not every student at every private.

No, she went way further than that (e.g., poo pooed the math programs from elementary school onward, etc. etc.).

Come on, DCPS has overhauled its ES math curriculum in the last several years for good reason, putting far more resources into math teacher training. It's no secret that DCPS math programs down the chain were lackluster across the board until quite recently, even in JKLM. S/he made a factual statement which has made you defensive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HS counselor here.

OK, so don't believe it. Believe whatever you want. Believe that differentiation in a Deal humanities classroom where some students work below grade level, others at grade level, and others ahead of grade level (possibly 2 or 3 years ahead) provides the best possible preparation for high school for the "smart kids" in the room. If differentiation in the classroom was guaranteed to bring out the best in every advanced MS student living in NW, why would any municipality in the country bother funding and running full-time middle school GT programs? This discussion pertains to challenging "smart kids" at Deal, not average kids.

If you really want an answer to your question, consider attending an open house at the Takoma Park MoCo MS Math/Sci Magnet, or the Eastern MS Humanities Magnet in Silver Spring, or, better yet, the Hunter College MS in NYC (they admit around 6% of 5th grade applicants).

Do you mean that every single student going from Deal to private is behind? I've read the private school board for years and many people have said their kids haven't had a problem transitioning. Does that mean they are delusional? Could you, perhaps, have any biases?

In the same vein, I find it odd that every private offers extensive differentiation. A friend of mine pulled her kid out of a big-3 because the math wasn't challenging - though it was fine for her other kids. So many kids entered in pre-k and/or got sibling preference that it cannot be that every kid there is a super star.

People have narratives they need to back up and use random anecdotes to back it up. I've tried to be helpful - but I don't think answering these really do much. Likely the OP's have their minds made up; they now seek validation.

The college counselor poster caveated her statements.

She said that parents she'd worked with who had students coming out of Deal were surprised to find they were behind "magnet school students" and the "strongest students at top privates."

So not every suburban public. Not every student at every private.

No, she went way further than that (e.g., poo pooed the math programs from elementary school onward, etc. etc.).

Come on, DCPS has overhauled its ES math curriculum in the last several years for good reason, putting far more resources into math teacher training. It's no secret that DCPS math programs down the chain were lackluster across the board until quite recently, even in JKLM. S/he made a factual statement which has made you defensive.

They are also making significant changes to math at the middle school level. Look at the transition at Deal, for example, where they have slowed down numbers of kids doing accelerated math significantly. This may not be the end state, but the reality was too many kids were not ready for Algebra / Geometry and their PARCC Alg and Geometry scores reflected that.

With the most recent results, there are fewer kids taking it advanced math, but the pass rate for Alg is really high, both for the kids doing it in 7th and 8th.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:HS counselor here.

OK, so don't believe it. Believe whatever you want. Believe that differentiation in a Deal humanities classroom where some students work below grade level, others at grade level, and others ahead of grade level (possibly 2 or 3 years ahead) provides the best possible preparation for high school for the "smart kids" in the room. If differentiation in the classroom was guaranteed to bring out the best in every advanced MS student living in NW, why would any municipality in the country bother funding and running full-time middle school GT programs? This discussion pertains to challenging "smart kids" at Deal, not average kids.

If you really want an answer to your question, consider attending an open house at the Takoma Park MoCo MS Math/Sci Magnet, or the Eastern MS Humanities Magnet in Silver Spring, or, better yet, the Hunter College MS in NYC (they admit around 6% of 5th grade applicants).

Cities have G/T programs because middle class parents demand them, not because the research suggests that they are necessary or beneficial . The vast majority of freshmen at Ivy League schools didn't have access to programs like Hunter, and they do just fine. It's okay to take differential equations in college rather than high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HS counselor here.

OK, so don't believe it. Believe whatever you want. Believe that differentiation in a Deal humanities classroom where some students work below grade level, others at grade level, and others ahead of grade level (possibly 2 or 3 years ahead) provides the best possible preparation for high school for the "smart kids" in the room. If differentiation in the classroom was guaranteed to bring out the best in every advanced MS student living in NW, why would any municipality in the country bother funding and running full-time middle school GT programs? This discussion pertains to challenging "smart kids" at Deal, not average kids.

If you really want an answer to your question, consider attending an open house at the Takoma Park MoCo MS Math/Sci Magnet, or the Eastern MS Humanities Magnet in Silver Spring, or, better yet, the Hunter College MS in NYC (they admit around 6% of 5th grade applicants).

Cities have G/T programs because middle class parents demand them, not because the research suggests that they are necessary or beneficial . The vast majority of freshmen at Ivy League schools didn't have access to programs like Hunter, and they do just fine. It's okay to take differential equations in college rather than high school.

Let me guess, the view of a white guy or gal who grew up comfortable. If I hadn't had access to strong full-time GT programs in the upper elementary and middle school grades growing up in a NYC housing project, my life would definitely have turned out very very differently. I certainly wouldn't have scored high enough on the SSAT to attend Bronx Science. There is in fact a corpus of academic research proving that such programs are enormously beneficial to poor kids with the aptitude and supports to accrue the benefit.