Fued over money

[Anonymous]

With the additional information, I get it from your dad's perspective. Your aunt was a greedy b**ch when she made a grab for the painting and the jewelry. She was not about to let your dad get any of the valuable tangibles. Your grandfather let her take them because he didn't want any unpleasantness with her and my guess is your dad probably didn't say anything at that time. And on top of that your aunt always was able to wheedle funds out of your grandparents, while your dad never did for whatever reasons. Maybe he had too much pride to ask but resented your aunt for not hesitating to ask? But the way in which she grabbed the valuable tangibles makes me think she knew exactly what she was doing when she wheedled money out of her parents. She knew perfectly well she was getting a head start on her inheritance. Now your dad feels that he is entitled to the money from the long lost stocks, because it was only recently discovered, after your aunt's death. The only reason it was discovered is because an outside party got in touch with both your dad and your widowed uncle, all this many years after your grandfather's death. In light of the new information, I think it would be an interesting exercise to figure out how much your combined grandparent's estate was worth, painting and jewelry included, and then split it in half. If your aunt's share is worth significantly more than your dad ever got, including this new discovery, then I don't think your dad is being petty or unfair. Your aunt was greedy and unfair. And your uncle is an ass for insisting on getting half of the discovered money if the jewelry and painting are worth more than the money. I think your grandfather should have realized he was creating a problem when he allowed your aunt to take the painting and the jewelry. But that's all water under the bridge. In the end, I hope with time you and your cousins will be able to be friends with each other again. If you figure out the amount of money is less than the value of the painting and the jewelry, don't worry further about it. I know the holidays will be very different without the whole extended family around the holiday table. Maybe you and your dad can get together with good friends or extended family, or go out of town and spend the holidays at an interesting location?

[Anonymous]

You dad can promise to leave the cousins a share of this separate amount in his own will. Then you can duke it out again with them when he eventually dies. It might pacify and shut them up for a bit.

[Anonymous]

I guess it was set up with aunt + dad as the survivors (thus bypassing probate) and then since aunt's gone, it's all going to the dad. Now if somehow there's a regular bank account with $5k that's found and *no* survivor instructions, that would fall under regular probate, right?

Be careful, though, your dad may want to get a second opinion or at least put the 25k in some sort of escrow in case the uncle + cousins get all sue happy (if only to make sure everything was spelled right/notarized where needed/etc.)

And -- let's face it -- your dad's fighting a battle from 25 years ago. Maybe he's in the right, but now the uncle/cousins have a story as to how they were Royally Shafted and can now be Victims in Perpetuity.

I know my sister and SIL have gotten more from our respective parents than I or my wife have. Now if they try to act in a way directly counter to our parents' respective written instructions, that's one thing.

But something like this? A lot of good will can be bought by just giving the cousins half. I'd like to hope I'd just unhesitatingly give the $25k or whatever it is to my sister/SIL, and that my wife wouldn't object.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here... my uncle consulted a lawyer and legally the money is my father's. I don't know exactly what the will said, but it had something to do with this account and the way it was set up. The original money was a gift to my grandfather from another family member and I guess my grandfather forgot about it and left the money there to grow for like 60 years.

So the issue here is a moral one, not a legal one.

I should add there is more behind him keeping the money - but I don't think this necessarily makes it right. My grandmother had a couple nice pieces of jewelry as well as one very expensive piece of artwork. After she passed away, my aunt claimed all the jewelry for herself, along with the painting. My grandfather willingly gave it all to her, but my dad was pissed because they all had a significant value and he just thought it was unfair since he would have loved to give some of it to my sisters and I. My aunt left the jewelry to my cousins, and the painting is hanging in my uncle and aunt's house. So my dad sees this as his half of those items.

I really want to stay out of this but my cousins and uncle keep trying to drag me in to get to my dad. I know he will not change his mind.

He's being petty, but I totally get it, as the less favored child in my family. Hell, I would probably do the same thing because a lifetime of being shafted while my sister was spoiled by my parents has driven me to that.

I don't see how he's being petty unless I'm misunderstanding the facts here. His father structured the account in a way such that the money would go to your dad. If that's how his father wanted to structure his inheritance it doesn't seem like it's any of the uncles business.

[Anonymous]

^17:27 again. Also, I see no reason why you should have to get involved. Tell your uncle and cousins that if they have concerns they should address them with your dad directly. You'd be amazed how liberating it is to be free of being in the middle of everyone else's drama.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nope. Your father gets it all. He is the only surviving one. Your uncle is wrong.

Even though the other sibling was alive when the parent died? This should have been taken care of at time of death, not years later, in which case it would have been divided properly.

OP, I think your father is in the wrong and his greed is justifyably tearing the family apart. I don't like people who profit off the backs of others and I don't want to be involved with them. Of course your cousins and uncle are angry.

[Anonymous]

Your dad sounds like an ass and is keeping money that he shouldn't have received in the first place. He is not "owed" anything, such entitlement lol. It doesn't matter if his sister was favored more or not growing up, that is his parents decision. Life isn't fair... tell him to grow up and do the right thing according to his parents wishes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your dad sounds like an ass and is keeping money that he shouldn't have received in the first place. He is not "owed" anything, such entitlement lol. It doesn't matter if his sister was favored more or not growing up, that is his parents decision. Life isn't fair... tell him to grow up and do the right thing according to his parents wishes.

If the uncle's lawyer (the person hired to represent the uncle's interest) says the money belongs to OP's dad it sounds like the account was structured that way. His parents' wishes as you put it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your dad sounds like an ass and is keeping money that he shouldn't have received in the first place. He is not "owed" anything, such entitlement lol. It doesn't matter if his sister was favored more or not growing up, that is his parents decision. Life isn't fair... tell him to grow up and do the right thing according to his parents wishes.

If the uncle's lawyer (the person hired to represent the uncle's interest) says the money belongs to OP's dad it sounds like the account was structured that way. His parents' wishes as you put it.

To be fair, we don't know, and can never know, whether OP's grandpa intended to have this account be treated like all other assets (and hence 50% to OP's dad/50% to OP's cousins or uncle) or that this account was meant for the kids only. As a PP said, if you have explicit beneficiary instructions on an account, that account acts differently from all other assets -- whether OP's grandpa intended for that to be the case or was just thinking "oh yay, I can get my kids this money quicker because it bypasses probate" and didn't think "hey, what if one of my kids dies before me/right after me or this account gets lost in the shuffle?" Also -- beneficiary instructions for accounts like 401k's overrule a will. Those are disposed of and paid out before the will is even attended to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nope. Your father gets it all. He is the only surviving one. Your uncle is wrong.

Even though the other sibling was alive when the parent died? This should have been taken care of at time of death, not years later, in which case it would have been divided properly.

OP, I think your father is in the wrong and his greed is justifyably tearing the family apart. I don't like people who profit off the backs of others and I don't want to be involved with them. Of course your cousins and uncle are angry.

Why is this justifiable? Why not uncle's greed? Or is that side of the family completely selfless for the sake of the relationship? Please.

This preaching is just annoying. OP, let the lawyers sort this out. Feelings will get hurt either way. That's family for you.

[Anonymous]

I dont think it was structured by grandpa so that only your dad would get it. It's not like he knew his daughter would die at any given time, especially if the will was written before grandkids. But that's what's happened so it's his.

[Anonymous]

If the lawyer told the the uncle that it was OP's dad's money, I don't understand why people are piling on OP's dad. Forget about all of the other stuff (favoritism, paintings, jewelry, etc.). If the money is legally OP's dad's money, why does he have any obligation, moral or otherwise, to give it to OP's cousins? It seems like it's the uncle who is being greedy.

Anyhow, OP, you are in a tough position. I would tell your uncle and cousins that you love them and very much want to continue a relationship with them, but that you are not involved in your grandfather's estate issues and cannot act as an intermediary between them and your dad. I would ask them to respect your relationship with your dad, and that you would like to see if there is a way to move past this between you and your relatives. I would not engage in the dispute on either side, it is not your fight. If they won't respect that, I am afraid it might be better off without them. This is in no way your fault or responsibility, no matter what anyone thinks of your dad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If the lawyer told the the uncle that it was OP's dad's money, I don't understand why people are piling on OP's dad. Forget about all of the other stuff (favoritism, paintings, jewelry, etc.). If the money is legally OP's dad's money, why does he have any obligation, moral or otherwise, to give it to OP's cousins? It seems like it's the uncle who is being greedy.

Anyhow, OP, you are in a tough position. I would tell your uncle and cousins that you love them and very much want to continue a relationship with them, but that you are not involved in your grandfather's estate issues and cannot act as an intermediary between them and your dad. I would ask them to respect your relationship with your dad, and that you would like to see if there is a way to move past this between you and your relatives. I would not engage in the dispute on either side, it is not your fight. If they won't respect that, I am afraid it might be better off without them. This is in no way your fault or responsibility, no matter what anyone thinks of your dad.

+1000. Your uncle ought to understand when you ask that they not use you as an intermediary in the fight. So unfortunate.

[Anonymous]

Legally, 1/2 was supposed to be given to your dad and 1/2 put in your aunt's estate to then be disbursed per her instructions. The executor royally goofed on this one. I've heard a lot of stories of this happening recently.

Your father needs to give 1/2 to his BIL. If the BIL files suit, the court will rule that at the time of your grandfather's death, your aunt was alive and should have received 1/2. Your dad may also be liable for your uncle's court costs.

Something very similar happened on my dad's side of the family. My grandmother's will stated that her house along with all of her rental properties should be sold upon her death. 70% was to be divided among her kids (4) and the remaining 30% was to be divided among her grandchildren. None of my aunts or uncles had ever been interested in real estate like she was and they all lived in states other than where the rental properties were located, so she figured that would be easier than dividing properties between the kids.

Between the time of her death and the time when all properties were sold, 3 new grandchildren were born. Plus, my one uncle divorced and remarried a younger woman with 4 kids. My other uncle argued that the 3 grandchildren born plus the 4 gained by marriage shouldn't be included when the 30% was divided among the grandchildren. My dad, my remarried uncle, and their sister disagreed and said they should be included.

They went to court and the judge ruled that only those living and part of the family the day my grandmother died were included and due to be part of the 30% given to the grand kids. WW3 then erupted in my family. It's been nearly 10 years and we've not celebrated any holiday as a family in those 10 years. We used to have large gatherings at Thanksgiving. My grandma started the tradition of having a large Thanks-Christma-Giving (even had a banner made) celebration to combine Thanksgiving and Christmas. That way her kids and grand kids were free to do whatever at Christmas. Some would still get together but most would visit the other side of their family. It was seriously like a Hallmark movie with decorating her house for Christmas, exchanging gifts, pigging out on amazing food, playing football in the backyard, etc. I miss those holiday traditions so much!

I'm so glad that I only have one brother and our parents have pretty much nothing to give once they pass.

[Anonymous]

^I agree that this money should have been divided up equally between Op's dad and the aunt who was still alive at the time. Her subsequent death is irrelevant. The executor goofed by not distributing the money at the time.

Now this money should be disbursed - 1/2 to Op's dad, 1/2 to the aunt's estate.