Confederate flag in cube

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For all of the free speech posters, what if instead of a confederate flag, this employee had a calendar of girls in skimpy bikinis at his desk or nude women from playboy? This would clearly not be allowed, yet these things are legal and asking to remove them would be an infringement of free speech, so to say.

What if instead of a confederate flag, he had the flag of Sweden? The bastards eat reindeer there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For all of the free speech posters, what if instead of a confederate flag, this employee had a calendar of girls in skimpy bikinis at his desk or nude women from playboy? This would clearly not be allowed, yet these things are legal and asking to remove them would be an infringement of free speech, so to say.

What if instead of a confederate flag, he had the flag of Sweden? The bastards eat reindeer there.

or the flag of Mexico? Clearly supporting illegal immigration, and their soccer team. We need a Wall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Foreigner here. Why is this automatically offensive?
Isn't there a historical angle to this, and not a racist one?

Some make that argument. I don't buy it. While it might be that some do not intend to use it as a racist/hostile symbol, just imagine how you would feel if you were a descendant of slaves and had to see, in your workplace, the symbol of the secessionists who went to war to maintain slavery. Heck, I am not a descendant of slaves and the Confederate flag makes me uncomfortable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War

Wasn't the confederate flag not offensive in the 80s? I remember it on the car in Dukes of Hazard and it wasn't an issue. When did it become a symbol of slavery? (I'm just curious, I'm also a foreigner,moved here as a child)

There are two groups who use the confederate flag: those who use it as a symbol of southern pride, and those who use it as a symbol of white supremacy. Back in the '80s, it was a symbol of southern pride. The meanings have blurred considerably since then. This came to a head last year when Dylann Roof posted pictures of himself draped in a confederate flag and then walked into a church and shot nine African Americans during a prayer service. Now, it is very difficult to display that flag and declare that it's only southern pride. Now, it's racist.

Can confirm, from the south. There was always some racism associated with the confederate flag in the 80s and before, but not everyone who displayed it was racist and it wasn't such as big a deal. (For instance, incorporating the confederate flag into the state flag of Georgia in the 50s in reaction to desegregation, definitely racist.) Slowly, the "preservation" and display of the flag has been appropriated completely by racists and become a completely racist symbol to most. A lot of older southern people don't really understand or want to.

Not sure what HR can do about it, unless there are already rules on the books. Also depends on what everyone else in his are also has displayed in their cubicals.

[Anonymous]

"In a national survey in 2015 across all races, 57% of Americans had the opinion that the Confederate flag represented Southern pride rather than racism. A similar poll in 2000 had a nearly identical result of 59%. However, poll results from only the South yielded a completely different result. 75% of Southern whites described the flag as a symbol of pride, while 75% of Southern blacks said the flag represented racism"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_display_of_the_Confederate_flag#Recent_public_opinion

[Anonymous]

In a cubicle space, I visit, I see the ISIL flag....But, we think nothing of it. Also, DPRK flags, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For all of the free speech posters, what if instead of a confederate flag, this employee had a calendar of girls in skimpy bikinis at his desk or nude women from playboy? This would clearly not be allowed, yet these things are legal and asking to remove them would be an infringement of free speech, so to say.

What if instead of a confederate flag, he had the flag of Sweden? The bastards eat reindeer there.

Well, the flag of Sweeden doesn't symbolize my wife being property and a fraction of a human. So there's that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In a cubicle space, I visit, I see the ISIL flag....But, we think nothing of it. Also, DPRK flags, etc.

You should also go to HR... The ISIL flag? Seriously?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
"In a national survey in 2015 across all races, 57% of Americans had the opinion that the Confederate flag represented Southern pride rather than racism. A similar poll in 2000 had a nearly identical result of 59%. However, poll results from only the South yielded a completely different result. 75% of Southern whites described the flag as a symbol of pride, while 75% of Southern blacks said the flag represented racism"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_display_of_the_Confederate_flag#Recent_public_opinion

Exactly.

That's like saying all white supremacists view the swastika as symbol of pride. All the people who suffered violence at the hands of white supremacists view it as a symbol of terror.

[Anonymous]

Gambit wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Crime against humanity. Burn the whole building down.

Funny as hell.

Go to HR. it is somewhat minor and petty, the guy is looking to get a rise out of you. But you have to be professional in your response to it. Go to HR and document EVERYthing you say, everything you do, and the responses you receive. Also document any perceived negative blowback from it.

FYI, if your work has not be up to par lately, expect to get a formal negative evaluation in response. You can't go rocking the boat if your own affairs aren't in order.

What the hell do I know, since I work in California, but non-retaliation isn't a thing in the federal government? That's pretty regressive.

[Anonymous]

Yawn. Don't you have work to keep you busy? Why do you care so much? Get a life.

[Anonymous]

Ew - I hope HR resolves. Agree with PPs; do not provoke.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Federal employment counsel here.

HR would probably come to me for a legal opinion. Federal employees have First Amendment rights that the government (acting as their employer) cannot violate except in certain situations. While I haven't researched this issue and this post isn't a legal opinion, I don't believe that this employee could be instructed to put away his Confederate Flag cube and I also don't believe it's an EEO violation. It alone without more does not create a hostile work environment.

None of that means that other employees or his manager could not encourage him to be more thoughtful, inclusive, or considerate about his choices. But I suspect that is a non-starter. Federal employees are a diverse group and it is his choice to decorate his cubicle, within certain limitations. I don't believe that, legally, he has exceeded those limitations.

What are those certain limitations? There must be more than playboy calendars on the list?

But, I do agree that if BLM stuff is allowed, then his flag should be. Both are things I disagree with but I don't see them as fundamentally different.

The limitations would be whether he services clients of the federal government in his cubicle, and whether those clients could perceive his symbolic speech (the confederate flag) as the government's opinion and be deterred from seeking the government's service. That would entitle the government to place curbs on the employee's speech rights.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work in a federal cube farm. One guy recently put up a confederate flag in his cube, not huge but noticable when you walk by. Can I get him to take it down? Do I go to HR, his boss, or him directly?

When the rest of the employees remove all of their Obama paraphernalia, then he can take his flag down. till then unless there is a policy about this then he has the right to express his beliefs and feelings. And if it offends you, that is your problem.

They're not supposed to have that either. It's called the Hatch Act. The federal building may have the portrait of the sitting President on the wall at the entrance.

Yup, violating the Hatch Act will quickly get you fired. Original pp clearly does not work for the feds- I have never seen political paraphernalia anywhere.

[Anonymous]

I bet his voting for Trump

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I bet his voting for Trump

Ya think?