Confederate flag in cube

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A flag is symbolic and can stir up all kinds of feelings. If a Confederate flag is understandably offensive to people in an office and shouldn't be displayed in a cubicle, why can the American flag be burned as freedom of speech? Both are often described as "just symbols."

Not enough eye rolls in the world. Plenty of behaviors are both legal and not allowed in an office environment. I don't think you'll find employers particularly amenable to allowing employees to burn flags in their cubes either.

Freedom of speech doesn't apply to employee/employer relationships. It applies to the government restricting the speech of its citizens. This guy is allowed to display his ode to hatred and treason at home when he's just a citizen. He doesn't get to do it at work.

PP here. I certainly am not in favor of displaying a Confederate flag at work or burning a flag in a cubicle. Perhaps I should have given a better example. Just trying to point out that, just a people are offended by the display of a Confederate flag, others are also offended by someone burning the American flag or showing disrespect for it in some other way.

Your example still doesn't work. There are things that are allowed as private citizens that you can't do at work. If you are creating a hostile work environment, it doesn't matter if your behavior would be protected as free speech as a citizen, it will still get you disciplined or fired as an employee. You asked why burning the flag is allowed as free speech if having a confederate flag in your work cube is not. The two have absolutely nothing to do with one another.

What about wearing a BLM tshirt?

I'm sure it's more offensive to many folks that some random confederate flag in someone's cubicle.

[Anonymous]

Your co worker is just a dukes of hazard fan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A flag is symbolic and can stir up all kinds of feelings. If a Confederate flag is understandably offensive to people in an office and shouldn't be displayed in a cubicle, why can the American flag be burned as freedom of speech? Both are often described as "just symbols."

Not enough eye rolls in the world. Plenty of behaviors are both legal and not allowed in an office environment. I don't think you'll find employers particularly amenable to allowing employees to burn flags in their cubes either.

Freedom of speech doesn't apply to employee/employer relationships. It applies to the government restricting the speech of its citizens. This guy is allowed to display his ode to hatred and treason at home when he's just a citizen. He doesn't get to do it at work.

Best to cross off 'visiting the South' from your list - confederate flags everywhere. People even felt the need to fly them from thei million dollar beach front rental homes in Florida (near Alabama) . Who brings their huge confederate flag with them on vacation?
Or, to work? This guy must be a special kind of stupid to display that at a federal government job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Foreigner here. Why is this automatically offensive?
Isn't there a historical angle to this, and not a racist one?

Some make that argument. I don't buy it. While it might be that some do not intend to use it as a racist/hostile symbol, just imagine how you would feel if you were a descendant of slaves and had to see, in your workplace, the symbol of the secessionists who went to war to maintain slavery. Heck, I am not a descendant of slaves and the Confederate flag makes me uncomfortable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War

[Anonymous]

I hate that flag. I'm from Mississippi and it's still part of our state flag. It flies over schools, federal buildings, state offices...... I worked to have it changed the last time it was on the ballot. We failed, but will keep trying.

I will say that people in Mississippi (and all over the deep south) do not associate it with slavery, oppression, or treason. Our black neighbor had it on his car! In their minds, it's a symbol of the south. Thankfully, things are changing.

Mississippi State is no longer flying the state flag on campus.
Ole Miss banned the Confederate flag at football games and officially changed the school flag.
The Ole Miss band no longer plays "Dixie" at football games.
Many businesses won't fly the flag.

....slowly even Mississippi is beginning to understand that the flag causes hurt and divisiveness regardless of what it means to individuals. Kinda off point, OP. But I think you should report it to HR and let them deal with it. Chances are this guy is looking for a fight.

[Anonymous]

It's a Confederate flag in a building where the man has pledged to provide public service under a different flag. It needs to come down. This is not a company or business. This is a federally funded government office employee being paid for with the same tax dollars that defeated the confederacy. It needs to come down. Unless he wants to work for union money instead of American dollars.

[Anonymous]

Federal employment counsel here.

HR would probably come to me for a legal opinion. Federal employees have First Amendment rights that the government (acting as their employer) cannot violate except in certain situations. While I haven't researched this issue and this post isn't a legal opinion, I don't believe that this employee could be instructed to put away his Confederate Flag cube and I also don't believe it's an EEO violation. It alone without more does not create a hostile work environment.

None of that means that other employees or his manager could not encourage him to be more thoughtful, inclusive, or considerate about his choices. But I suspect that is a non-starter. Federal employees are a diverse group and it is his choice to decorate his cubicle, within certain limitations. I don't believe that, legally, he has exceeded those limitations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I work in a federal cube farm. One guy recently put up a confederate flag in his cube, not huge but noticable when you walk by. Can I get him to take it down? Do I go to HR, his boss, or him directly?

When the rest of the employees remove all of their Obama paraphernalia, then he can take his flag down. till then unless there is a policy about this then he has the right to express his beliefs and feelings. And if it offends you, that is your problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Confederate flag is basically treason. And he works for the gov? Talk to HR.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work in a federal cube farm. One guy recently put up a confederate flag in his cube, not huge but noticable when you walk by. Can I get him to take it down? Do I go to HR, his boss, or him directly?

When the rest of the employees remove all of their Trump paraphernalia, then he can take his flag down. till then unless there is a policy about this then he has the right to express his beliefs and feelings. And if it offends you, that is your problem.

See how your logic doesn't work there?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work in a federal cube farm. One guy recently put up a confederate flag in his cube, not huge but noticable when you walk by. Can I get him to take it down? Do I go to HR, his boss, or him directly?

When the rest of the employees remove all of their Obama paraphernalia, then he can take his flag down. till then unless there is a policy about this then he has the right to express his beliefs and feelings. And if it offends you, that is your problem.

They're not supposed to have that either. It's called the Hatch Act. The federal building may have the portrait of the sitting President on the wall at the entrance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Federal employment counsel here.

HR would probably come to me for a legal opinion. Federal employees have First Amendment rights that the government (acting as their employer) cannot violate except in certain situations. While I haven't researched this issue and this post isn't a legal opinion, I don't believe that this employee could be instructed to put away his Confederate Flag cube and I also don't believe it's an EEO violation. It alone without more does not create a hostile work environment.

None of that means that other employees or his manager could not encourage him to be more thoughtful, inclusive, or considerate about his choices. But I suspect that is a non-starter. Federal employees are a diverse group and it is his choice to decorate his cubicle, within certain limitations. I don't believe that, legally, he has exceeded those limitations.

Well said

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Federal employment counsel here.

HR would probably come to me for a legal opinion. Federal employees have First Amendment rights that the government (acting as their employer) cannot violate except in certain situations. While I haven't researched this issue and this post isn't a legal opinion, I don't believe that this employee could be instructed to put away his Confederate Flag cube and I also don't believe it's an EEO violation. It alone without more does not create a hostile work environment.

None of that means that other employees or his manager could not encourage him to be more thoughtful, inclusive, or considerate about his choices. But I suspect that is a non-starter. Federal employees are a diverse group and it is his choice to decorate his cubicle, within certain limitations. I don't believe that, legally, he has exceeded those limitations.

This makes sense but wasn't there an EEOC case on exactly this topic that was decided just a few weeks ago that displaying the Gadsen flag could be considered a hostile work environment and a few years ago that wearing confederate flag t shirts was also hostile?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Foreigner here. Why is this automatically offensive?
Isn't there a historical angle to this, and not a racist one?

Yes, the historical angle where a group of people believe you should be able to own other people the same way you own a tv or a tractor, and use them in pretty much the same manner. And that rights and liberties should be determined by skin color. So they may not consider themselves "racist", because they don't hate the people, the same way they don't hate their TVs or tractors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Foreigner here. Why is this automatically offensive?
Isn't there a historical angle to this, and not a racist one?

Yes, the historical angle where a group of people believe you should be able to own other people the same way you own a tv or a tractor, and use them in pretty much the same manner. And that rights and liberties should be determined by skin color. So they may not consider themselves "racist", because they don't hate the people, the same way they don't hate their TVs or tractors.

Let's point the obvious, shall we? That's your version of events, not theirs -- they just wanted to gain independence, same as the colonies had gained independence from England.

Who's right or wrong doesn't matter in this case...free speech rules.