The balance: saving too little vs saving too much. AND Tesla

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you're older and look back at you life, are you really going to say, "I'm glad we spent the money and got a Tesla."

Maybe you will, but that's weird to me.

You can make it work. You seem like fiscally responsible people, so if that's what you want to prioritize, I'm sure you can do it.

I'd take some of that money and go on some really great family vacations when the kids are a bit older, but that's just me.

When OP's older and look back at her life, is she really going to say "I'm glad I had a net worth of 1.16 million in my mid-30s instead of a net worth of 1.14 million. Totally better than having that nice, cutting edge car we'd been eyeing for years?"

Hey, different strokes for different folks. I can't imagine getting that much joy from a car, but I know some people do. With small kids, I might look back on my life and say, "wow, I'm so glad we had a great net worth in our 30's, it made saving for college so less stressful."

Of course you're entitled to a different opinion on how to spend your money, but what's not fair to do is claim the comparison is between having a nice car or having a good net worth. Obviously everyone sane would choose the latter. The decline in OP's very high net worth would be only the immediate depreciation from driving a new car off the lot. So the actual comparison is between having an excellent net worth for someone in their mid 30s and having almost exactly the same net worth and a car that they apparently value.

You can obviously disagree about the subjective value of a fancy car. What's silly to do is to set up a straw man where OP is choosing between a car or being able to comfortably afford to send her kids to college.

Oy. No one is setting up a straw man, so chickity check yourself before you wreck yourself. You're creating an argument where there is nonw. I'm in a similar financial situation and age to OP; we even have kids a similar age. All I've said is that I would live my life differently. I'm risk averse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My parents saved very little (good income, good life, generous with others but very little left). My in-laws save too much (in the last couple of years, they gave their kids 28K each due to estate planning but argue about taking a few hundred dollars flight because it is too expensive).

I am hoping to strike a balance. Enjoy our life now, save enough to enjoy retirement. My husband is more like his parents (he keeps adding oil to his 10 year old dented Civic, sticking two kids back there despite the two doors model and claims it is fine).

Our finance:
We are both mid thirties
240K HHI
200K equity in our 900K house
80K equity in our 230k condo rental
760K in our 401K/roth IRAs (we contribute 47K to these accounts each year)
20K in 529 for 1 and 3 year old (we contribute 10K to these accounts each year)
100K in saving/bonds/general-investing for Emg/whatever
cars are paid but oldish (10 and 9 year old).

My husband is wonderful and he is not into worldly goods/or cars. But he keep talking about how nice the Tesla "concept" is (he did not say he wants one because "the Civic is good for at least another 2 years!"). He commutes 45 min-1 hr each way. I think he will enjoy the Tesla and financial we can take it (80K!) but close.What say you DCUM, should I talk him into it? or am I veering toward spending too much?

Are your kids in public school? I don't see any payments re: childcare/summer camps, etc. If you really don't have any child-related expenses, then I'd say you could afford the car. Our income is similar to yours, but our childcare payment up until last year was equal to our mortgage. Once I was able to get one into public school, the calculus changed considerably.

[Anonymous]

A much better use of the money would be to move closer to work so your husband doesn't have such a shitty commute!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP...do you think your in-laws feel like they missed out because they were frugal?

My parents built their wealth from nothing and are frugal specifically because they want to leave something to their children and grandchildren. That's what they've been working for. That's what makes them happy.

OP here. I do not think the in-laws feel they have missed out. But if I am living their life style, I would that is why I wanted to strike a balance.

Many people commented on how expensive our house is but it brings me joy. I do not regret buying it and won't have it any other way if I had to go back 3 years. I just want something that would make my husband feel the same.

I think I will have him test drive it and follow his lead. He is financial conservative enough that he will never spend that kind of money unless it truly stole his heart.

P.S. I am not sure why Dentists cannot drive a Tesla but we are not dentists (geeky engineers here) so that is irrelevant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1 to the other poster who suggested the Tesla 3. That's a good compromise. Half the cost of the S or the X and still all the cool Tesla stuff. Although the X would be better with the kiddos. I'd be fine buying one in your financial position. We've looked at them before, but they just don't work for what we want to do. Too limited with the charging network and just wouldn't work well for trips down to Hatteras, towing the boat, drives in the Shenandoah, etc. If your primary use case is commuting though then I think it's a great option if you go into it with the mindset that it likely isn't a "buy it and hold it" car. There are just too many doodads in that car for me to believe it's going to be able to be a reliable car for 10-15 years. I think it's more of a car for people who trade up every few years or lease.

This is another point that bears repeating. Tesla's owners have been first adopters who have been quite easy going with issues related to the car. Tesla has been frantically addressing quality issues and the car is a lot better since launch. However on the whole, Tesla is still suffering from reliability problems which should give people pause if they intend to be a main daily driver without a backup.

+1 - the core group of early adopters has, IMHO, actually skewed the reporting of issues. This early adopter group (comprised largely of Tesla fanboys and Elon nuthuggers) are more than willing to tolerate and fiddle around with things that normal car owners would find maddening. I would never buy one except two distinct use cases - commuting and pleasure driving. In both of those scenarios I would definitely keep my regular cars as backup and for longer trips as one of the PP's mentioned.

I am really curious why y'all think first adopters are less likely to report defects. Or for that matter why they're more brand loyal. If anything, their defining traits are that they enjoy being part of the product beta process and they are willing to explore new brands. Yes, obviously agree OP shouldn't depose of all of their other means of transportation.

Sure I am one of the PPs and I can explain to you exactly why. I am a car guy and have bought many new models on first release. First as a general point of knowledge, we know that the first year of any new model is going to have more issues than usual. There will be more service bulletins, more potential recalls, more nagging issues that are resolved on subsequent model years. I know this full well going in so if any issues do come up, I don't act surprised or feel cheated. As you can imagine, I would be somewhat more lenient filling out the quality survey. So even though I may bring this issues up during visits to the dealer, I accept that this is part of owning a new model.

There is also the confirmation bias mentality for something as expensive as a car. Here I just spent a ton of money on something, I want to feel like I made the right choice. This is especially true for enthusiasts or early adopters who are taking a known risk. This mentality would be less pronounced if the product was relatively low cost and the owner can easily return, sell, or discard it and move on to the next thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP...do you think your in-laws feel like they missed out because they were frugal?

My parents built their wealth from nothing and are frugal specifically because they want to leave something to their children and grandchildren. That's what they've been working for. That's what makes them happy.

OP here. I do not think the in-laws feel they have missed out. But if I am living their life style, I would that is why I wanted to strike a balance.

Many people commented on how expensive our house is but it brings me joy. I do not regret buying it and won't have it any other way if I had to go back 3 years. I just want something that would make my husband feel the same.

I think I will have him test drive it and follow his lead. He is financial conservative enough that he will never spend that kind of money unless it truly stole his heart.

P.S. I am not sure why Dentists cannot drive a Tesla but we are not dentists (geeky engineers here) so that is irrelevant.

OP, I think your mortgage payment is fine. We are very similar to you, in terms of savings and mortgage and salary, and doing just fine.

As for the car, you should also have DH check out the Chevy Volt and Bolt. I have been commuting with my Volt for almost 3 years, and love it. So much cool tech and stuff. I think I'm averaging over 100 mpg over the life of the car so far (20 K miles). As a bonus, see if DH can get a charger at work - lots of places will install them so they can get credit for being "green." Our second car is a minivan, for road trips and carpooling and all that stuff that comes with having kids.

[Anonymous]

Something is not adding up based on the numbers OP gave. A 240k income after taxes with 401k/roth IRA deductions, health insurance/dental is about $7600 a month. A mortgage of $4250 a month brings it down to $3350.

Example of Possible Expenses:

Entertainment/Recreation 200.00

Utilities/Alarm System 450.00

Cell Phones/Data Plans/Home Internet/Cable 400.00

Auto Ins 150.00

Hair Grooming/Dry Cleaning 250.00

Auto Gasoline 200.00

Food/Groceries/Eating Out 1,000.00

Travel to Work/Parking 100.00

DayCare ????

Savings 500

Net = $100.00


So after the above expenses (and we still haven't included daycare), They only save $500 a month with only $100 left over and we haven't even talked about monthly emergency expenses, car repairs and house repairs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Something is not adding up based on the numbers OP gave. A 240k income after taxes with 401k/roth IRA deductions, health insurance/dental is about $7600 a month. A mortgage of $4250 a month brings it down to $3350.

Example of Possible Expenses:

Entertainment/Recreation 200.00

Utilities/Alarm System 450.00

Cell Phones/Data Plans/Home Internet/Cable 400.00

Auto Ins 150.00

Hair Grooming/Dry Cleaning 250.00

Auto Gasoline 200.00

Food/Groceries/Eating Out 1,000.00

Travel to Work/Parking 100.00

DayCare ????

Savings 500

Net = $100.00


So after the above expenses (and we still haven't included daycare), They only save $500 a month with only $100 left over and we haven't even talked about monthly emergency expenses, car repairs and house repairs?

PP here. Meant to add in the 401k/IRA deductions the OP listed at 47k per year comes out to about $1850 per check and the 529 accounts at 20k per year is about $360 per check. That's how I came up with the numbers above.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Something is not adding up based on the numbers OP gave. A 240k income after taxes with 401k/roth IRA deductions, health insurance/dental is about $7600 a month. A mortgage of $4250 a month brings it down to $3350.

Example of Possible Expenses:

Entertainment/Recreation 200.00

Utilities/Alarm System 450.00

Cell Phones/Data Plans/Home Internet/Cable 400.00

Auto Ins 150.00

Hair Grooming/Dry Cleaning 250.00

Auto Gasoline 200.00

Food/Groceries/Eating Out 1,000.00

Travel to Work/Parking 100.00

DayCare ????

Savings 500

Net = $100.00


So after the above expenses (and we still haven't included daycare), They only save $500 a month with only $100 left over and we haven't even talked about monthly emergency expenses, car repairs and house repairs?

I think your take home pay in this example is off. We max retirement and do backdoor roths on a similar income and take home closer to $10k each month.

[Anonymous]

You're forgetting her ILs give each of them $28K a year. Maybe the kids, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Something is not adding up based on the numbers OP gave. A 240k income after taxes with 401k/roth IRA deductions, health insurance/dental is about $7600 a month. A mortgage of $4250 a month brings it down to $3350.

Example of Possible Expenses:

Entertainment/Recreation 200.00

Utilities/Alarm System 450.00

Cell Phones/Data Plans/Home Internet/Cable 400.00

Auto Ins 150.00

Hair Grooming/Dry Cleaning 250.00

Auto Gasoline 200.00

Food/Groceries/Eating Out 1,000.00

Travel to Work/Parking 100.00

DayCare ????

Savings 500

Net = $100.00


So after the above expenses (and we still haven't included daycare), They only save $500 a month with only $100 left over and we haven't even talked about monthly emergency expenses, car repairs and house repairs?

I think your take home pay in this example is off. We max retirement and do backdoor roths on a similar income and take home closer to $10k each month.

We make 240K between us, and our takehome is a little over 10. Around 600 pretax for medical/dental/fsa and we each put in the max 18K into our 401ks. We got a 6K income tax refund last year too, so it might even be more like 10,600 take home if I get around to adjusting our withholdings. So I agree that 7600 seems light. I also don't think I could handle a 4300 mortgage, but I am paying for 2 in daycare right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow, that is pretty bold to buy a million dollar house on that income. We have a similar income and could not even imagine that.

Our HVAC system was $10,000, same with our roof and other major repairs.......

Wow, same situation here! We make more than OP and bought a 750K house, then paid 10K for the HVAC shortly thereafter. No way I'd stretch to 900K.

[Anonymous]

http://www.paycheckcity.com/calculator/salary/

240,000 Salary

Pay Frequency Bi-weekly

Married

0 Exemptions

State Maryland

Deduction 1: 401K=20%

Deduction 2: 529=4%

Net Pay $3,866.67

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A much better use of the money would be to move closer to work so your husband doesn't have such a shitty commute!

Bingo! Thread winner!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:http://www.paycheckcity.com/calculator/salary/

240,000 Salary

Pay Frequency Bi-weekly

Married

0 Exemptions

State Maryland

Deduction 1: 401K=20%

Deduction 2: 529=4%

Net Pay $3,866.67

Which is $8300 / month.