Mr. Money Mustache may be frugal, but he's high income.

[Anonymous]

I'm the pp who said I didn't like his inflexibility. Not a hater, but just adding that I think he could be more forthright, which is turning the hate on him.

For example, if he is going to donate the money per the article, why not do it now? Or, just explain after putting it out there. He said right after the Post article he was making $50K, so it's been profitable since the beginning.

He said they only use 2.5 tanks of gas per year, but I've been to Longmont and a few trips to Denver airport (he says he travels) would probably eat that up. Does he then budget car service? I'm not reading him now, so perhaps he does. As an aside, that probably means that his wife can't go out at night with friends unless they drive.

Finally, I also stopped reading because it didn't seem entirely realistic. As pp said, what happens when he needs a new couch or his kid needs braces? But his budget never included for those eventualities. Maybe it does now.

He is making excellent money and still has a strong base, he may not want to grow it any more.

[Anonymous]

pp you answered my question, he budgeted $55 for super shuttle. But he had at least two trips to Canada. So, I'm not still not sure how that adds up. $96 for a 40th birthday trip including gas, which was a whopping $71 for the year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm the pp who said I didn't like his inflexibility. Not a hater, but just adding that I think he could be more forthright, which is turning the hate on him.

For example, if he is going to donate the money per the article, why not do it now? Or, just explain after putting it out there. He said right after the Post article he was making $50K, so it's been profitable since the beginning.

He said they only use 2.5 tanks of gas per year, but I've been to Longmont and a few trips to Denver airport (he says he travels) would probably eat that up. Does he then budget car service? I'm not reading him now, so perhaps he does. As an aside, that probably means that his wife can't go out at night with friends unless they drive.

Finally, I also stopped reading because it didn't seem entirely realistic. As pp said, what happens when he needs a new couch or his kid needs braces? But his budget never included for those eventualities. Maybe it does now.

He is making excellent money and still has a strong base, he may not want to grow it any more.

+1 I'm the OP and I agree with this. If he's planning on giving the money away later, why not just give it away as he makes it? Or he should just own the fact that he's a high-income guy advising people to live frugally on not much money (and who still thinks that having a substantial stash of cash in reserve isn't such a bad idea).


I don't know. Something about proselytizing militantly frugal living while simultaneously stockpiling cash just seems like a big fakeout to me.

[Anonymous]

PP here, every year he posts how much he spends, atleast from when he started the blog.

Here is the latest for 2014, I am curious to hear your thoughts.
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2015/01/16/exposed-the-mmm-familys-2014-spending/
Do you think some of this is fudged, and he is spending more? What do you see lacking?

Personally, yes I cannot see sustaining my family on this spending level, but I attribute that he is handy, lives in LCOL area and has tons of time in his hands to plan and optimize spending. Clearly he enjoys that, but you & I might not, so what works for him, will not work for you, which is fine. But I dont think we need to follow his script, maybe learn atleast a few lessons in frugality?

And to say that his family is just a step away from dying maybe a bit far fetched? I do agree he has a huge safety net like handy skills, wife works for her parent's company and made 60K partime, Canadian healthcare etc (way before the blog revenue) but again his message is NOT that go quit your job, but be frugal and save so you have enough to quit if needed.
And I think he is living his example, if he was in a 9-5 cubicle job, he would not have had his blog that is now raking him revenue.

My reverse engineering of this families budget was spot on without actually having been on the site before. My bare bones budget put it at 20K without any travel added. Considering they spent 5K on travel and a total of 25K for the year, my estimation was spot on.
This was a perfect world budget. No matter how handy this guy is, he is not installing a new hvac system, 7900$ on his own. He does not look like he can rebuild a car transmission either.
"And to say that his family is just a step away from dying maybe a bit far fetched?"
I think you missed the point here as it was not to suggest they are a step away from actually dying. Physically the human body doesnt need a lot to survive/exist but on 20-25K a year, it leaves almost nothing to experience it fully.
Pretending his wifes 60K and the 400K from the blog does not exist and act like they dont have any other money to live on is disingenuous. Whether or not they actually live on that posted budget is up for debate because when a news magazine outs your real income, it removes any credibility you may have had.
http://familiesusa.org/product/federal-poverty-guidelines
For a family of 3, 20K a year is considered the poverty level in the US. For most, existing like this is not an acceptable choice especially when they have options to rise well above it.
It would be funny if he is actually getting federal benefits claiming to be living at the poverty level not unlike the alaska bush people who dont actually live in alaska.
http://www.adn.com/article/20141022/stars-alaska-reality-tv-show-charged-pfd-fraud

[Anonymous]

My reverse engineering of this families budget was spot on without actually having been on the site before. My bare bones budget put it at 20K without any travel added. Considering they spent 5K on travel and a total of 25K for the year, my estimation was spot on.
This was a perfect world budget. No matter how handy this guy is, he is not installing a new hvac system, 7900$ on his own. He does not look like he can rebuild a car transmission either.
"And to say that his family is just a step away from dying maybe a bit far fetched?"
I think you missed the point here as it was not to suggest they are a step away from actually dying. Physically the human body doesnt need a lot to survive/exist but on 20-25K a year, it leaves almost nothing to experience it fully.
Pretending his wifes 60K and the 400K from the blog does not exist and act like they dont have any other money to live on is disingenuous. Whether or not they actually live on that posted budget is up for debate because when a news magazine outs your real income, it removes any credibility you may have had.
http://familiesusa.org/product/federal-poverty-guidelines
For a family of 3, 20K a year is considered the poverty level in the US. For most, existing like this is not an acceptable choice especially when they have options to rise well above it.
It would be funny if he is actually getting federal benefits claiming to be living at the poverty level not unlike the alaska bush people who dont actually live in alaska.
http://www.adn.com/article/20141022/stars-alaska-reality-tv-show-charged-pfd-fraud

Funny that you were able to reverse engineer "without actually having been on the site before"
To reiterate, his wife quit her part time job few years ago (but even then living on a 60K income would be a stretch for most of DCUM) and the blog revenue is fairly new. As posters have mentioned upthread, his message is that spending should not be tied to income, and we can and should save 50% or more of our income (I am not saying this is possible for everyone, just clearing up his message). In fact this is how he became financially independent.
So I dont see why his frugality message is undermined because his blog is now earning money. He always claims he has resources to spend way more, but will not, He says he lived off his rental income and did not rely on any income off the stock market investments, so his nest egg kept growing since his retirement in 2004. So the bolded is simply not true.

Also the poverty level guidelines include 5 major expenses: rent, food, child care, health care, transportation
Out of which rent, child care and transportation dont apply to his family. His property taxes also seem very low.
For health care he has a high deductible health plan (and I think the canadian safety net)


Also FYI:
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2015/11/23/diy-gas-furnace/
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/07/02/how-to-fix-a-car/
And http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/06/20/mustachian-motoring-with-a-manual-transmission/

And I did not mean dying literally either. He says he lives his life to the fullest, (and any excess money above his annual spending is of very minimal value) but I agree that is subjective.
To each his own.

[Anonymous]

"Funny that you were able to reverse engineer "without actually having been on the site before"

Like that was so difficult. OOOOH budget scary....

MONEY OUT: Monthly budget
Food for all $800.00
House taxes $200.00
Medical & contacts $200.00
Electric $125.00
Clothes $100.00
Cell phone $75.00
Gas-Home $50.00
Water $50.00
Cable $50.00
$1,650.00 $19,800.00

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the pp who said I didn't like his inflexibility. Not a hater, but just adding that I think he could be more forthright, which is turning the hate on him.

For example, if he is going to donate the money per the article, why not do it now? Or, just explain after putting it out there. He said right after the Post article he was making $50K, so it's been profitable since the beginning.

He said they only use 2.5 tanks of gas per year, but I've been to Longmont and a few trips to Denver airport (he says he travels) would probably eat that up. Does he then budget car service? I'm not reading him now, so perhaps he does. As an aside, that probably means that his wife can't go out at night with friends unless they drive.

Finally, I also stopped reading because it didn't seem entirely realistic. As pp said, what happens when he needs a new couch or his kid needs braces? But his budget never included for those eventualities. Maybe it does now.

He is making excellent money and still has a strong base, he may not want to grow it any more.

+1 I'm the OP and I agree with this. If he's planning on giving the money away later, why not just give it away as he makes it? Or he should just own the fact that he's a high-income guy advising people to live frugally on not much money (and who still thinks that having a substantial stash of cash in reserve isn't such a bad idea).


I don't know. Something about proselytizing militantly frugal living while simultaneously stockpiling cash just seems like a big fakeout to me.

Totally agree

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, I take issue with his whole premise.

I love my work and will probably work until I die or get dementia.

Same goes for my DH.

So neither of us wants to retire early. We have a nice work/family balance. And we like to buy the things that make our lives easier or support or interests and hobbies. And we can afford it.

We are also saving for that late retirement.

Maybe he hated his engineering job/worked too much? But the truth is he's NOT retired, he's just not traditionally employed. Well, neither am I.

So, I don't see him as being very honest. He's playing semantic games about working and retirement.

I will be general to not "out" myself. My husband is the rare lawyer who loves his work (employment discrimination, civil rights) and I am in a creative/artistic field.

What kind of work do you and your husband do?

[Anonymous]

.

[Anonymous]

MMM is still going strong. I like his philosophies, even if I don't abide by all the specifics. (I have a speed boat, for Heaven's sake, that I will not be giving up.)

He's entertaining, and many people on DCUM, and in the DMV, would benefit greatly by heeding some of his advice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There will always be haters -- people don't want to believe that you can actually live well if you spend below your income and don't go into debt. That you can save money and stop working before you're 70 years old. That you can spend your time finding something meaningful to do with those 40 years after you retire at 30. I think MMM has some great ideas and I'm going to teach my children that they don't need to work until they drop dead if they don't want to.

There will always be people like yourself who try and obfuscate the fact he is promoting the idea everyine, including himself that it's possible to retire at 30 on 20K a year with a family of 4. All this promotion while collecting 400K a year the whole time.

This is a little bit like the trust fund kids who adopt a radical, theoretically altruistic political or social philosophy. They join the working class or the disenfranchised, living on the edge. They advocate. The join communes. They picket.

But in the end, they can hit the red button and walk about any moment they want to leave. They will never have to take the hard fall for a mistake. They don't wake up broke in the inner city or an urban backwater and find they are trapped and can never leave.

Are their goals admirable? Are they nice people, maybe? Sure.

But they're NOT like the people they are trying to help, organize, or lead. They don't have only $23,000 a year. And that is what limits their authority and wisdom to tell the $23,000 a year people what to do.

[Anonymous]

I think OP is missing the point. He does not Get financially independent or early retirement from his blog. He retire and later created his blog as a hobby that is now become money making machine for him.
I do like his philosophy a lot. I don’t belyin working for money forever. I believe in working for a higher purpose and have ,only working for me.

I read his blog on how he retired young. This guy , and his wife, saved a lot. He bike to work. He flipped house as a hobby.
When they retire, he is a home maker. He homeschooled his kid. And later, he then started the MMM blog which is now become a money for him.
I don5 see how depressing that his kid didn’t have a birthday present. I myse
Of never had a bd present. I learned the joy of giving. Actually I have been donating to charity around the world without use them as tax deductions ( because they are regconized by irs as a non profit, they are just charity in other country like a mobile cataracts units in India etc)
Kids learn the joy of giving by giving and understanding, not from getting gifts.

He is teaching philosophy that he himself has proved doable. He could retried early, stay home , spend time doing whatever he likes instead of sticking to the job that he may not like just for money. That the main point of it.
If he hadn’t managed to become financial independent or earthly retire several years ago, MMM blog might not even exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There will always be haters -- people don't want to believe that you can actually live well if you spend below your income and don't go into debt. That you can save money and stop working before you're 70 years old. That you can spend your time finding something meaningful to do with those 40 years after you retire at 30. I think MMM has some great ideas and I'm going to teach my children that they don't need to work until they drop dead if they don't want to.

There will always be people like yourself who try and obfuscate the fact he is promoting the idea everyine, including himself that it's possible to retire at 30 on 20K a year with a family of 4. All this promotion while collecting 400K a year the whole time.

This is a little bit like the trust fund kids who adopt a radical, theoretically altruistic political or social philosophy. They join the working class or the disenfranchised, living on the edge. They advocate. The join communes. They picket.

But in the end, they can hit the red button and walk about any moment they want to leave. They will never have to take the hard fall for a mistake. They don't wake up broke in the inner city or an urban backwater and find they are trapped and can never leave.

Are their goals admirable? Are they nice people, maybe? Sure.

But they're NOT like the people they are trying to help, organize, or lead. They don't have only $23,000 a year. And that is what limits their authority and wisdom to tell the $23,000 a year people what to do.

MMM "retired" before he had a blog, and certainly before he had any reason to believe that any future blog might be so lucrative. There's no shortage of personal finance blogs that earn nothing.

And he's never denied that his skills as a computer engineer are not a huge advantage, or that he was taking some huge risk by "retiring." To the contrary, he's always maintained that it was actually a very low-risk choice, because he and his wife are skilled and adaptable people, and they could always get some sort of work if things turned south.

His whole schtick is simply that you can live very well on relatively little. He's proven that.

I don't even like the guy that much, but these attacks are unfair and totally off-base. They also reek of jealousy and personal insecurity.

[Anonymous]

I am a poster 8.21 typo mistake correction

I do like his philosophy a lot. I don’t belive in working for money forever. I believe in working for a higher purpose and have money working for me.

BTW, I think you really read his blogs like really really read it.learn about how he started and how he get here. The other poster was asking about his gas budget too low but really he didn’t drive,he bike.

Even I don’t follow all his life style to a tee but it s really inspiring and gave me a lot of ideas.

[Anonymous]

My favorite cheapskate of all time was the Head of a trading desk on Wall Street, drank the cheap dirty coffee and thought his traders were crazy for going out to Starbucks.

The kicker was come bonus time he did a math spreadsheet of the cost his traders spent on Starbucks coffee during the year and took it out of their bonus and put it in his bonus as he had total discretion.