Mr. Money Mustache may be frugal, but he's high income.

[Anonymous]

In defense of MMM, I read an article on him in The New Yorker, then checked out his blog and his forum. The forum was especially helpful to me. Reading that, and a bit of Dave Ramsey, Bogleheads forum, and Babycenter's Family Finance board, helped me cut down my spending by going over my budget and automating savings. Sounds like a no brainer but I needed the inspiration of others and lots of tips and tricks. We went from saving @ $15k to $56k in retirement accounts in two years. We also saved a four month Emergency Fund and some sinking funds for home maintenance and irregular expenses (from $30k to $50k total). All without too many hits to our lifestyle -- we're not biking to get groceries. Thanks to him, and other personal finance bloggers/writers/podcasters, my DH and I are looking at one day retiring, not at 35 (that ship has sailed) but before the typical 65. I didn't even know it was possible.

That said, no, he's not really retired. He owns, rents out and maintains some real estate, and IIRC his blog empire made $400k/year a few years ago (probably much more now). But he's not punching a clock our working for someone else. Also his ex-wife has a business selling soaps on Etsy. I guess MMM is more "financial independence" than "retire early" at this point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I used to get really interested in people who who FIRE until I ralize that almost all of them had some very cushy job (mostly software engineers) and then they could afford to save 70% of their income because they were making something like 150,000 or more a year. and you'll notice that while they're very open about how much they save their incredibly close lipped about how much they make from their jobs because that takes away the illusion that any person can save at some crazy rate and be able to save the money to retire early.

How many people do you know who earned $150,000 and retired by age 35 and just lived, frugally, off their investments?

The key thing FIRE people do is NOT move to a larger house, buy a nicer car, send their kids to private school. They just save and save and save and then leave the $150,000 job for someone else to enjoy!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I find it really ironic that he got rich by being really, really good at being poor. It's almost as if there is a lesson here somewhere, but I can't quite get my head around it.

?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I used to get really interested in people who who FIRE until I ralize that almost all of them had some very cushy job (mostly software engineers) and then they could afford to save 70% of their income because they were making something like 150,000 or more a year. and you'll notice that while they're very open about how much they save their incredibly close lipped about how much they make from their jobs because that takes away the illusion that any person can save at some crazy rate and be able to save the money to retire early.

How many people do you know who earned $150,000 and retired by age 35 and just lived, frugally, off their investments?

The key thing FIRE people do is NOT move to a larger house, buy a nicer car, send their kids to private school. They just save and save and save and then leave the $150,000 job for someone else to enjoy!

Someone else also gets to enjoy the nicer job, car, vacation, school etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it really ironic that he got rich by being really, really good at being poor. It's almost as if there is a lesson here somewhere, but I can't quite get my head around it.

+1.

he's not really good at being poor he's really good at making a lot of money at a software engineering job and rental income and then investing it and living frugally off plus blog income.


I used to get really interested in people who who FIRE until I ralize that almost all of them had some very cushy job (mostly software engineers) and then they could afford to save 70% of their income because they were making something like 150,000 or more a year. and you'll notice that while they're very open about how much they save their incredibly close lipped about how much they make from their jobs because that takes away the illusion that any person can save at some crazy rate and be able to save the money to retire early.


and of course when you point this out the fire community gets super defensive about it and claims anyone who critcizes them is jealous of their success or lazy or whatever.

My father-in-law is a janitor and struggles to get full-time hours due to health issues. He too lives a very frugal existence. The difference is that he will never realistically save a million dollars or whatever is the magical FIRE number is because he's making a minimum wage job.

This podcast does it really interesting job of breaking down how the FiRE community is being co-opted by investment bankers to sell savings products

https://m.soundcloud.com/citationsneeded/episode-77-frugality-fables-and-the-poor-shaming-grift-of-financial-advice-journalism

One example from the MMM board--and there are probably others--is of two teachers who lived cheap and bought rental properties. I guess you may say they "work," because the wife writes romance novels sometimes. Both of them own these rental properties and those take work. But they travel full time.

So I guess I see two things that can be true at the same time.

1. The principles of frugality work, and it's possible for some at a certain income level to have $1M within 10 years.

2. Some frugal people earn a lot of money and can save more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

LOL, yes he works. He calls himself retired, but he works. That blog needs to come out on schedule whether he wants to write or not, because he'll lose advertisers otherwise.

He writes one post a month!

I think he owns a co-working space, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it really ironic that he got rich by being really, really good at being poor. It's almost as if there is a lesson here somewhere, but I can't quite get my head around it.

+1.

he's not really good at being poor he's really good at making a lot of money at a software engineering job and rental income and then investing it and living frugally off plus blog income.


I used to get really interested in people who who FIRE until I ralize that almost all of them had some very cushy job (mostly software engineers) and then they could afford to save 70% of their income because they were making something like 150,000 or more a year. and you'll notice that while they're very open about how much they save their incredibly close lipped about how much they make from their jobs because that takes away the illusion that any person can save at some crazy rate and be able to save the money to retire early.


and of course when you point this out the fire community gets super defensive about it and claims anyone who critcizes them is jealous of their success or lazy or whatever.

My father-in-law is a janitor and struggles to get full-time hours due to health issues. He too lives a very frugal existence. The difference is that he will never realistically save a million dollars or whatever is the magical FIRE number is because he's making a minimum wage job.

This podcast does it really interesting job of breaking down how the FiRE community is being co-opted by investment bankers to sell savings products

https://m.soundcloud.com/citationsneeded/episode-77-frugality-fables-and-the-poor-shaming-grift-of-financial-advice-journalism

This reminds me of The Frugalwoods. They have a popular FIRE type blog. The wife wrote a book and readers kind of ripped her to shreds over being disingenuous about how much her DH makes (she's "retired" but he's not, making something like $240K/year).

I follow their blog and read her book. Finding out her husband makes 240,000 a year was quite a surprise. (And they rent their home in Cambridge). I'm not sure why they are still obsessively frugal given that they aren't saving for another house. They spend a lot of money on their homestead for projects but not to fix it up.she still agonizes over every big purchase that isn't on brand like a roomba

My general impression from her book is that was forever chasing happiness by thinking a masters/dog/child/ homestead would make her happy but if you read get writing about bring a stay at home mom she's definitely struggling with having too small and very rambunctious children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it really ironic that he got rich by being really, really good at being poor. It's almost as if there is a lesson here somewhere, but I can't quite get my head around it.

+1.

he's not really good at being poor he's really good at making a lot of money at a software engineering job and rental income and then investing it and living frugally off plus blog income.


I used to get really interested in people who who FIRE until I ralize that almost all of them had some very cushy job (mostly software engineers) and then they could afford to save 70% of their income because they were making something like 150,000 or more a year. and you'll notice that while they're very open about how much they save their incredibly close lipped about how much they make from their jobs because that takes away the illusion that any person can save at some crazy rate and be able to save the money to retire early.


and of course when you point this out the fire community gets super defensive about it and claims anyone who critcizes them is jealous of their success or lazy or whatever.

My father-in-law is a janitor and struggles to get full-time hours due to health issues. He too lives a very frugal existence. The difference is that he will never realistically save a million dollars or whatever is the magical FIRE number is because he's making a minimum wage job.

This podcast does it really interesting job of breaking down how the FiRE community is being co-opted by investment bankers to sell savings products

https://m.soundcloud.com/citationsneeded/episode-77-frugality-fables-and-the-poor-shaming-grift-of-financial-advice-journalism

This reminds me of The Frugalwoods. They have a popular FIRE type blog. The wife wrote a book and readers kind of ripped her to shreds over being disingenuous about how much her DH makes (she's "retired" but he's not, making something like $240K/year).

I follow their blog and read her book. Finding out her husband makes 240,000 a year was quite a surprise. (And they rent their home in Cambridge). I'm not sure why they are still obsessively frugal given that they aren't saving for another house. They spend a lot of money on their homestead for projects but not to fix it up.she still agonizes over every big purchase that isn't on brand like a roomba

My general impression from her book is that was forever chasing happiness by thinking a masters/dog/child/ homestead would make her happy but if you read get writing about bring a stay at home mom she's definitely struggling with having too small and very rambunctious children.

I agree she seems unhappy. I’m shocked about her husband. I knew he worked but what can you do remotely for $240k that still leaves time for all that wood chopping? The $240k is IN THE BOOK???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it really ironic that he got rich by being really, really good at being poor. It's almost as if there is a lesson here somewhere, but I can't quite get my head around it.

+1.

he's not really good at being poor he's really good at making a lot of money at a software engineering job and rental income and then investing it and living frugally off plus blog income.


I used to get really interested in people who who FIRE until I ralize that almost all of them had some very cushy job (mostly software engineers) and then they could afford to save 70% of their income because they were making something like 150,000 or more a year. and you'll notice that while they're very open about how much they save their incredibly close lipped about how much they make from their jobs because that takes away the illusion that any person can save at some crazy rate and be able to save the money to retire early.


and of course when you point this out the fire community gets super defensive about it and claims anyone who critcizes them is jealous of their success or lazy or whatever.

My father-in-law is a janitor and struggles to get full-time hours due to health issues. He too lives a very frugal existence. The difference is that he will never realistically save a million dollars or whatever is the magical FIRE number is because he's making a minimum wage job.

This podcast does it really interesting job of breaking down how the FiRE community is being co-opted by investment bankers to sell savings products

https://m.soundcloud.com/citationsneeded/episode-77-frugality-fables-and-the-poor-shaming-grift-of-financial-advice-journalism

This reminds me of The Frugalwoods. They have a popular FIRE type blog. The wife wrote a book and readers kind of ripped her to shreds over being disingenuous about how much her DH makes (she's "retired" but he's not, making something like $240K/year).

I follow their blog and read her book. Finding out her husband makes 240,000 a year was quite a surprise. (And they rent their home in Cambridge). I'm not sure why they are still obsessively frugal given that they aren't saving for another house. They spend a lot of money on their homestead for projects but not to fix it up.she still agonizes over every big purchase that isn't on brand like a roomba

My general impression from her book is that was forever chasing happiness by thinking a masters/dog/child/ homestead would make her happy but if you read get writing about bring a stay at home mom she's definitely struggling with having too small and very rambunctious children.

I agree she seems unhappy. I’m shocked about her husband. I knew he worked but what can you do remotely for $240k that still leaves time for all that wood chopping? The $240k is IN THE BOOK???

Wow, I just looked it up myself. $270k total comp from the nonprofit he works for. It’s in their tax filings. Wow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I used to get really interested in people who who FIRE until I ralize that almost all of them had some very cushy job (mostly software engineers) and then they could afford to save 70% of their income because they were making something like 150,000 or more a year. and you'll notice that while they're very open about how much they save their incredibly close lipped about how much they make from their jobs because that takes away the illusion that any person can save at some crazy rate and be able to save the money to retire early.

How many people do you know who earned $150,000 and retired by age 35 and just lived, frugally, off their investments?

The key thing FIRE people do is NOT move to a larger house, buy a nicer car, send their kids to private school. They just save and save and save and then leave the $150,000 job for someone else to enjoy!

It's not just the lifestyle creep. It's about having enough money to live off if you're saving 50 percent of it

[Anonymous]

Yes, he’s Exec Director and before that was the Political Director of ActBlue. They’re well connected Cambridge elites in the type of jobs and circles you get into due to connections. I don’t know where they were educated but my money is on Harvard or MIT.

I’ve crossed paths with them and they’re not regular folk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, he’s Exec Director and before that was the Political Director of ActBlue. They’re well connected Cambridge elites in the type of jobs and circles you get into due to connections. I don’t know where they were educated but my money is on Harvard or MIT.

I’ve crossed paths with them and they’re not regular folk.

Corrected. They went to Kansas. But the point remains. They’re lucky and smart.

[Anonymous]

The husband who makes over 200k working from home is quoted here. He is the Exec Director of ActBlue Technical services. Look at the numbers in this artcile--ActBlue is not some struggling mission oriented nonprofit.

This guy's situation is really atypical.

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/09/upshot/how-actblue-became-a-powerful-force-in-fund-raising.html

[Anonymous]

Ha ha. And Tim Ferris works four hours a week.

Stop worshipping false gods. FIRE has some good concepts; apply them judiciously to your own life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I used to get really interested in people who who FIRE until I ralize that almost all of them had some very cushy job (mostly software engineers) and then they could afford to save 70% of their income because they were making something like 150,000 or more a year. and you'll notice that while they're very open about how much they save their incredibly close lipped about how much they make from their jobs because that takes away the illusion that any person can save at some crazy rate and be able to save the money to retire early.

How many people do you know who earned $150,000 and retired by age 35 and just lived, frugally, off their investments?

The key thing FIRE people do is NOT move to a larger house, buy a nicer car, send their kids to private school. They just save and save and save and then leave the $150,000 job for someone else to enjoy!

It's not just the lifestyle creep. It's about having enough money to live off if you're saving 50 percent of it

It's about BOTH. MMM is about having enough of an income AND avoiding lifestyle creep.

He honestly never said he was aiming his advice at people who only earned $50,000 a year.

I am not a high income person, and I do read Mr Money Mustache and other blogs. There's no way I can be like him and save 60%+ of my income and still live a relatively normal life. I could do it but I'd have to be really really extreme with my living situation like live in my car or at home with my parents etc.