Do you know any former devout Christians?

[Anonymous]

^^OP knows that being a Christian can be a good thing; OP is Christian. The issue is very intense and obsessive religious behavior that's new and inconsistent with how OP raised her daughter.

I'm mainline Protestant myself and if my daughter was suddenly extremely focused the way OP's daughter is I would be alarmed. I'll also say that while I value my religion, I find proselytizing quite obnoxious. overzealous adherents of any religion can be tough to be around and they can miss out.

OP, talk to your daughter about her life. Is she searching for something? Did she experience a loss? Is she having an existential crisis?

If she's just a sincere convert to a much more intense form of Christianity than your own but is actually doing ok, then maybe just gently tell her you're glad she found what she's looking for but that people don't like to talk about religion all of the time.

[Anonymous]

Much better thread title, Jeff.

[Anonymous]

This entire post shows the intricacies of religion and culture. It's never one thing. There really isn't one belief. It's all guided by culture and personality. When people say "Jesus Freak", I think most people understand what that means. I've known deeply religious people who weren't consumed in thought and deed by the aspect of being Christian. Yet, there was a fundamental ( please pardon the pun) cult of personality fueled by groups when I was in high school and college that took relatively average kids and turned them into well, Jesus Freaks. For many of them, this lasted throughout their lives because they married young within this group as their whole existence revolved around witnessing. Call it devout, but it looked like a cult to me...and yes, they were quite predatory. If my daughter started this behavior outside the culture of religion that she was generally exposed to, it would mean that she's been pressured into it by a group. It's simply not the same thing as converting to another religion as an adult.

Please do not compare reading the Bible to taking drugs in an attempt to find something virtuous about one over the other. That's unfair. Of course I wouldn't want my kids taking drugs, but falling head first into a religious group is just as dangerous. Don't think it ends with being a teenager. Friends have explained that this level of predation occurs in the workplace, the military (especially), and in adult cliques. I've seen it at work, too, and I'm no spring chicken, but it is really uncomfortable. I can remember one young teacher new to teaching desperately feeling her way around the faculty using the lingo until she could find someone of like thought..it was quite sad, although the odds are she was probably successful at some point...the point being,however, that she was entirely brainwashed. Not one aspect of the work day could be discussed without her religious input. There was always a Bible quote or a statement about praying. In the real world, however, the context of adult workplace issues often find themselves outside of this context.

As we continue to discuss the term "radicalism" in reference to current affairs, please understand that when we read about American and European teens suddenly dropping everything and committing to a terrorist group, it's no different when your teen suddenly changes tack and is reading the Bible nonstop and associating with different people. It has nothing to do with the religion, actually, and everything to do with peer pressure,culture, and insecurity...it can be religion or drugs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jesus freak here.

... I have a wonderful husband who would not be wonderful if it weren't for our faith. He is faithful because he fears the Lord and loves me as the Lord has commanded....

O/T comment here.

I'm glad you have what you perceive to be a great marriage but this is really disturbing to me. From what you said, it sounds like your husband is only acting the way he does because he fears punishment by someone he thinks is bigger and badder. Does that really sound like love to you? Or something bordering on abuse and manipulation?

You appear to have a fundamental misunderstanding of Christianity. No Christian fears punishment (Romans 8:1), because we are forgiven for all our sins by Christ and His sacrifice on the cross. You cannot get to Heaven by behaving. Salvation is a free gift of God through Christ (Ephesians 2:8-9) solely through faith. So no Christian is trying to behave because he fears being punished by a big, bad, mean God. Christians strive to love God and their neighbor because He loved us first (1 John 4:19). We strive to act out our faith in gratitude for a loving Savior. We don't want to disappoint Him. We want to show others the same love and forgiveness that God showed us. This is 180 degrees different from what you stated. In addition, we have the Spirit of Christ to help us with this; the fruit of the spirit of God is love, joy, peace, patience, goodness, kindness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control (Galatians 5:28-29). All these things are what the PP was saying about her husband being a better man because of his faith. No Christian is perfect, and a good Christian will admit that quicker than anyone, but the more we yield to God, the more we, and others, will see this fruit of God in our lives.

So do you. You seem to thing all Christians believe as you do and luckily for them, they do not. You're not "yielding to god" - you're yielding to what you imagine is god. ANd feeling superior for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This entire post shows the intricacies of religion and culture. It's never one thing. There really isn't one belief. It's all guided by culture and personality. When people say "Jesus Freak", I think most people understand what that means. I've known deeply religious people who weren't consumed in thought and deed by the aspect of being Christian. Yet, there was a fundamental ( please pardon the pun) cult of personality fueled by groups when I was in high school and college that took relatively average kids and turned them into well, Jesus Freaks. For many of them, this lasted throughout their lives because they married young within this group as their whole existence revolved around witnessing. Call it devout, but it looked like a cult to me...and yes, they were quite predatory. If my daughter started this behavior outside the culture of religion that she was generally exposed to, it would mean that she's been pressured into it by a group. It's simply not the same thing as converting to another religion as an adult.

Please do not compare reading the Bible to taking drugs in an attempt to find something virtuous about one over the other. That's unfair. Of course I wouldn't want my kids taking drugs, but falling head first into a religious group is just as dangerous. Don't think it ends with being a teenager. Friends have explained that this level of predation occurs in the workplace, the military (especially), and in adult cliques. I've seen it at work, too, and I'm no spring chicken, but it is really uncomfortable. I can remember one young teacher new to teaching desperately feeling her way around the faculty using the lingo until she could find someone of like thought..it was quite sad, although the odds are she was probably successful at some point...the point being,however, that she was entirely brainwashed. Not one aspect of the work day could be discussed without her religious input. There was always a Bible quote or a statement about praying. In the real world, however, the context of adult workplace issues often find themselves outside of this context.

As we continue to discuss the term "radicalism" in reference to current affairs, please understand that when we read about American and European teens suddenly dropping everything and committing to a terrorist group, it's no different when your teen suddenly changes tack and is reading the Bible nonstop and associating with different people. It has nothing to do with the religion, actually, and everything to do with peer pressure,culture, and insecurity...it can be religion or drugs.

You are very insulting to many and not nearly as enlightened as you think you are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This entire post shows the intricacies of religion and culture. It's never one thing. There really isn't one belief. It's all guided by culture and personality. When people say "Jesus Freak", I think most people understand what that means. I've known deeply religious people who weren't consumed in thought and deed by the aspect of being Christian. Yet, there was a fundamental ( please pardon the pun) cult of personality fueled by groups when I was in high school and college that took relatively average kids and turned them into well, Jesus Freaks. For many of them, this lasted throughout their lives because they married young within this group as their whole existence revolved around witnessing. Call it devout, but it looked like a cult to me...and yes, they were quite predatory. If my daughter started this behavior outside the culture of religion that she was generally exposed to, it would mean that she's been pressured into it by a group. It's simply not the same thing as converting to another religion as an adult.

Please do not compare reading the Bible to taking drugs in an attempt to find something virtuous about one over the other. That's unfair. Of course I wouldn't want my kids taking drugs, but falling head first into a religious group is just as dangerous. Don't think it ends with being a teenager. Friends have explained that this level of predation occurs in the workplace, the military (especially), and in adult cliques. I've seen it at work, too, and I'm no spring chicken, but it is really uncomfortable. I can remember one young teacher new to teaching desperately feeling her way around the faculty using the lingo until she could find someone of like thought..it was quite sad, although the odds are she was probably successful at some point...the point being,however, that she was entirely brainwashed. Not one aspect of the work day could be discussed without her religious input. There was always a Bible quote or a statement about praying. In the real world, however, the context of adult workplace issues often find themselves outside of this context.

As we continue to discuss the term "radicalism" in reference to current affairs, please understand that when we read about American and European teens suddenly dropping everything and committing to a terrorist group, it's no different when your teen suddenly changes tack and is reading the Bible nonstop and associating with different people. It has nothing to do with the religion, actually, and everything to do with peer pressure,culture, and insecurity...it can be religion or drugs.

You are very insulting to many and not nearly as enlightened as you think you are.

I found the above to be informative and insightful and not insulting at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know it's not a popular lifestyle or viewpoint in the DMV, but the devout Christians ("Jesus freaks") I've known have been mostly great people. Principled, humble, accepting (for the most part), generous, and positive.

I guess I don't see the problem.

+ a million

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know it's not a popular lifestyle or viewpoint in the DMV, but the devout Christians ("Jesus freaks") I've known have been mostly great people. Principled, humble, accepting (for the most part), generous, and positive.

I guess I don't see the problem.

+ a million

Not al devout christians are Jesus freaks

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Get her away from any sort of cult church. "Non-denominational" Christians, like the McLean Bible Church.

Encourage her to go to a more liberal protestant church, like a Methodist Church or an ELCA Lutheran Church (no Missouri synod, they are conservative). She can have an outlet for her Jesus talk, but they are accepting of gays and women and don't preach abstinence until marriage. They also aren't as big on proselytizing as the Bible Church people.

Funnel her into the GOOD parts of being into Jesus. Loving your neighbors, doing good works, helping the poor, being a good person etc. Not the sketchball part of converting all your Jewish friends or discounting evolution.

You have obviously never read the Bible cover to cover.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jesus freak here.

I tried the other route and saw that it was leading me nowhere. Jesus worked for me. I don't understand why you want your daughter to be alone all her life or depend on drugs, whether legal or not,to get her through the day. Or to be living with a jerk who can't commit because why buy the milk when you can have the cow. I have a wonderful husband who would not be wonderful if it weren't for our faith. He is faithful because he fears the Lord and loves me as the Lord has commanded. I am drug free because I depend on the Lord to give me hope. I don't suffer from side-effects, such as dry mouth and busted kidneys and endless doctors' visits to "regulate" my meds. When I am angry at someone, I count on the Lord to give me peace and take care of matters, instead of taking vengeance. When my kids are sad or worried, we get on our knees and pray. We trust that the Lord will see us through. I've seen countless miracles as a result. 95 percent of my lifelong friends, I've met through church. They are the ones most likely to "like" my posts and give me a little boost during the day because they don't judge me. They love unconditionally. I wouldn't change that for the world.

If one of your friend who you met through church, told you they didn't believe anymore, would they still be your friend?

Absolutely!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^OP knows that being a Christian can be a good thing; OP is Christian. The issue is very intense and obsessive religious behavior that's new and inconsistent with how OP raised her daughter.

I'm mainline Protestant myself and if my daughter was suddenly extremely focused the way OP's daughter is I would be alarmed. I'll also say that while I value my religion, I find proselytizing quite obnoxious. overzealous adherents of any religion can be tough to be around and they can miss out.

OP, talk to your daughter about her life. Is she searching for something? Did she experience a loss? Is she having an existential crisis?

If she's just a sincere convert to a much more intense form of Christianity than your own but is actually doing ok, then maybe just gently tell her you're glad she found what she's looking for but that people don't like to talk about religion all of the time.

OP's daughter is not proselytizing, though.

I do wonder how you can be a mainline Protestant and view the Great Commission as "quite obnoxious". Can you explain how you reconcile the basis of Christianity with that thought?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^OP knows that being a Christian can be a good thing; OP is Christian. The issue is very intense and obsessive religious behavior that's new and inconsistent with how OP raised her daughter.

I'm mainline Protestant myself and if my daughter was suddenly extremely focused the way OP's daughter is I would be alarmed. I'll also say that while I value my religion, I find proselytizing quite obnoxious. overzealous adherents of any religion can be tough to be around and they can miss out.

OP, talk to your daughter about her life. Is she searching for something? Did she experience a loss? Is she having an existential crisis?

If she's just a sincere convert to a much more intense form of Christianity than your own but is actually doing ok, then maybe just gently tell her you're glad she found what she's looking for but that people don't like to talk about religion all of the time.

OP's daughter's is not proselytizing, though.

I do wonder how you can be a mainline Protestant and view the Great Commission as "quite obnoxious". Can you explain how you reconcile the basis of Christianity with that thought?

You missed the point. Her daughter was proselytize TO. That is the concern.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This entire post shows the intricacies of religion and culture. It's never one thing. There really isn't one belief. It's all guided by culture and personality. When people say "Jesus Freak", I think most people understand what that means. I've known deeply religious people who weren't consumed in thought and deed by the aspect of being Christian. Yet, there was a fundamental ( please pardon the pun) cult of personality fueled by groups when I was in high school and college that took relatively average kids and turned them into well, Jesus Freaks. For many of them, this lasted throughout their lives because they married young within this group as their whole existence revolved around witnessing. Call it devout, but it looked like a cult to me...and yes, they were quite predatory. If my daughter started this behavior outside the culture of religion that she was generally exposed to, it would mean that she's been pressured into it by a group. It's simply not the same thing as converting to another religion as an adult.

Please do not compare reading the Bible to taking drugs in an attempt to find something virtuous about one over the other. That's unfair. Of course I wouldn't want my kids taking drugs, but falling head first into a religious group is just as dangerous. Don't think it ends with being a teenager. Friends have explained that this level of predation occurs in the workplace, the military (especially), and in adult cliques. I've seen it at work, too, and I'm no spring chicken, but it is really uncomfortable. I can remember one young teacher new to teaching desperately feeling her way around the faculty using the lingo until she could find someone of like thought..it was quite sad, although the odds are she was probably successful at some point...the point being,however, that she was entirely brainwashed. Not one aspect of the work day could be discussed without her religious input. There was always a Bible quote or a statement about praying. In the real world, however, the context of adult workplace issues often find themselves outside of this context.

As we continue to discuss the term "radicalism" in reference to current affairs, please understand that when we read about American and European teens suddenly dropping everything and committing to a terrorist group, it's no different when your teen suddenly changes tack and is reading the Bible nonstop and associating with different people. It has nothing to do with the religion, actually, and everything to do with peer pressure,culture, and insecurity...it can be religion or drugs.

You are very insulting to many and not nearly as enlightened as you think you are.

I do not suggest that I am enlightened in any way. However, I have been on the sidelines of this sort of behavior for more than a few decades. Any group can become predatory. I think I hit a little nerve with you...perhaps you call it "witnessing" - but it's predatory. Kids are the most vulnerable for this type of behavior, and just because you are not involved with anything illegal it does not mean that you are innocent of exploiting a teen's natural insecurities with all the tactics predatory groups use. It's called love bombing. ..just what kids want and need at the time they need it.Are you a youth minister with some mega church? I'll bet you are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jesus freak here.

I tried the other route and saw that it was leading me nowhere. Jesus worked for me. I don't understand why you want your daughter to be alone all her life or depend on drugs, whether legal or not,to get her through the day. Or to be living with a jerk who can't commit because why buy the milk when you can have the cow. I have a wonderful husband who would not be wonderful if it weren't for our faith. He is faithful because he fears the Lord and loves me as the Lord has commanded. I am drug free because I depend on the Lord to give me hope. I don't suffer from side-effects, such as dry mouth and busted kidneys and endless doctors' visits to "regulate" my meds. When I am angry at someone, I count on the Lord to give me peace and take care of matters, instead of taking vengeance. When my kids are sad or worried, we get on our knees and pray. We trust that the Lord will see us through. I've seen countless miracles as a result. 95 percent of my lifelong friends, I've met through church. They are the ones most likely to "like" my posts and give me a little boost during the day because they don't judge me. They love unconditionally. I wouldn't change that for the world.

If one of your friend who you met through church, told you they didn't believe anymore, would they still be your friend?

Absolutely!

Hey, lady, I am calm and happily married without busted kidneys or whatever you are referring to. I've done without drugs and alcohol AND whatever notion of Jesus that you have, and managed to get and stay married for 20 years to man who actually just wants to be married. ...no fear involved here. Admit it...this is no different than some drug for you, so you can see why OP is concerned. This is not what she wants for her daughter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jesus freak here.

... I have a wonderful husband who would not be wonderful if it weren't for our faith. He is faithful because he fears the Lord and loves me as the Lord has commanded....

O/T comment here.

I'm glad you have what you perceive to be a great marriage but this is really disturbing to me. From what you said, it sounds like your husband is only acting the way he does because he fears punishment by someone he thinks is bigger and badder. Does that really sound like love to you? Or something bordering on abuse and manipulation?

You appear to have a fundamental misunderstanding of Christianity. No Christian fears punishment (Romans 8:1), because we are forgiven for all our sins by Christ and His sacrifice on the cross. You cannot get to Heaven by behaving. Salvation is a free gift of God through Christ (Ephesians 2:8-9) solely through faith. So no Christian is trying to behave because he fears being punished by a big, bad, mean God. Christians strive to love God and their neighbor because He loved us first (1 John 4:19). We strive to act out our faith in gratitude for a loving Savior. We don't want to disappoint Him. We want to show others the same love and forgiveness that God showed us. This is 180 degrees different from what you stated. In addition, we have the Spirit of Christ to help us with this; the fruit of the spirit of God is love, joy, peace, patience, goodness, kindness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control (Galatians 5:28-29). All these things are what the PP was saying about her husband being a better man because of his faith. No Christian is perfect, and a good Christian will admit that quicker than anyone, but the more we yield to God, the more we, and others, will see this fruit of God in our lives.

So do you. You seem to thing all Christians believe as you do and luckily for them, they do not. You're not "yielding to god" - you're yielding to what you imagine is god. ANd feeling superior for it.

So you're saying that some Christians think God is mean and manipulates them into loving him through fear?