Harvard, Princeton or Yale?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DS got into Harvard & Yale. We spent a long weekend in both New Haven and Cambridge so he could get a feel for both, and I thought he'd choose Cambridge. Ultimately, he decided on neither, and instead chose Stanford, surprising us greatly. Not because he turned down those two, but because he was such a mama's boy who loved being home among family we were shocked he'd want to go so far. But Stanford was much less pressure while still giving academic intensity and he really thrived there.

Wise son!

[Anonymous]

Anyone would be lucky (and very unlikely) to have to make this choice.

But you should visit all three and decide for yourself. I have recently completed the circuit with my DC and had the following reactions.

Princeton - definitely the one that would provide the experience closest to the traditional undergraduate college, with twice as many undergrads as grad students, Greek life (though it's disguised as eating clubs) and strong campus traditions. But also super preppy and students seemingly focused on making connections that will help propel them through the pipeline to Wall Street. Also, harder grading and a senior thesis requirement that is significantly challenging.

Yale - well, I'm a Yale fanboy. I bought what they were selling. An undergraduate-focused liberal arts school with the resources of a global research university. The residential colleges which truly provide you with a smaller community of acquaintances within the broader school. Students with intellectual vitality who truly love to learn.

Harvard - Hi, we're Harvard and we're the best. You know you want us, we know you want us, and some of you might just be lucky enough to come here. If you do, then you'll be the best too. Boston and Harvard Square are awesome, too, so we don't have to provide all that much for undergraduates. Now let's watch an Asian tour group take pictures of an actual student reading a book on the Yard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anyone would be lucky (and very unlikely) to have to make this choice.

But you should visit all three and decide for yourself. I have recently completed the circuit with my DC and had the following reactions.

Princeton - definitely the one that would provide the experience closest to the traditional undergraduate college, with twice as many undergrads as grad students, Greek life (though it's disguised as eating clubs) and strong campus traditions. But also super preppy and students seemingly focused on making connections that will help propel them through the pipeline to Wall Street. Also, harder grading and a senior thesis requirement that is significantly challenging.

Yale - well, I'm a Yale fanboy. I bought what they were selling. An undergraduate-focused liberal arts school with the resources of a global research university. The residential colleges which truly provide you with a smaller community of acquaintances within the broader school. Students with intellectual vitality who truly love to learn.

Harvard - Hi, we're Harvard and we're the best. You know you want us, we know you want us, and some of you might just be lucky enough to come here. If you do, then you'll be the best too. Boston and Harvard Square are awesome, too, so we don't have to provide all that much for undergraduates. Now let's watch an Asian tour group take pictures of an actual student reading a book on the Yard.

You nailed Harvard, not sure about the other two. And the Chinese tour buses have invaded New Haven and Princeton, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone would be lucky (and very unlikely) to have to make this choice.

But you should visit all three and decide for yourself. I have recently completed the circuit with my DC and had the following reactions.

Princeton - definitely the one that would provide the experience closest to the traditional undergraduate college, with twice as many undergrads as grad students, Greek life (though it's disguised as eating clubs) and strong campus traditions. But also super preppy and students seemingly focused on making connections that will help propel them through the pipeline to Wall Street. Also, harder grading and a senior thesis requirement that is significantly challenging.

Yale - well, I'm a Yale fanboy. I bought what they were selling. An undergraduate-focused liberal arts school with the resources of a global research university. The residential colleges which truly provide you with a smaller community of acquaintances within the broader school. Students with intellectual vitality who truly love to learn.

Harvard - Hi, we're Harvard and we're the best. You know you want us, we know you want us, and some of you might just be lucky enough to come here. If you do, then you'll be the best too. Boston and Harvard Square are awesome, too, so we don't have to provide all that much for undergraduates. Now let's watch an Asian tour group take pictures of an actual student reading a book on the Yard.

You nailed Harvard, not sure about the other two. And the Chinese tour buses have invaded New Haven and Princeton, too.

Think of the Tiger Moms prowling Princeton.

[Anonymous]

Princeton.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3229323/The-Princeton-tiger-roars-New-Jersey-Ivy-League-school-named-American-university-U-S-News-World-Report-second-year-row.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hands down, I'd pick Yale. ITA about the country club aspect of Princeton, and the undergrad experience at Harvard is not great.

As a Harvard grad, I agree.

Same. Harvard grad. Daughter had choice between two and picked Yale. The more I learned, the more supportive I became.

[Anonymous]

Are you guys serous?

[Anonymous]

I really encouraged my senior to look at Yale, but unfortunately she wouldn't consider it because of New Haven/crime. I made all the counter-arguments, but her mind was made up.

[Anonymous]

DW graduated from Harvard. DD chose Princeton which is where DW wanted her to go all along. Yale was not considered.

DD is interested in the sciences and there are more research opportunities for undergraduates at Princeton than at Harvard.

[Anonymous]

I went to Harvard for undergrad and grad school, and taught there for many years. The location is great, and the opportunities are many, but undergrads are truly an afterthought in terms of the professors, they could care less about teaching, and they are hired for their research credentials/academic accomplishments and grant money they can bring in, not teaching. I moved to DC, and my DD decided to go to Princeton over Harvard. I was a bit concerned based on the eating club/conservative reputation (of course based on my experiences in the 19070s!) but her choice was absolutely the right one, at least for her. She had a fabulous experience at Princeton, very undergrad focused, so had incredible opportunities with professors for research, money from Princeton thrown at her for various summer projects (largest endowment per student by far), beautiful and safe campus but a quick trip into NYC or Philly for weekend jaunts. Eating club scene much more open and less preppy than the reputation, and paradoxically much less based on social/economic background than sororities or finals clubs or other social organizations at city schools, because parties/activities at Princeton cost nothing or close to nothing (unlike Penn/Columbia even Boston, where have and have-nots separated by who can afford to go out to dinner at fancy places or clubbing). Eating club costs covered by financial aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I went to Harvard for undergrad and grad school, and taught there for many years. The location is great, and the opportunities are many, but undergrads are truly an afterthought in terms of the professors, they could care less about teaching, and they are hired for their research credentials/academic accomplishments and grant money they can bring in, not teaching. I moved to DC, and my DD decided to go to Princeton over Harvard. I was a bit concerned based on the eating club/conservative reputation (of course based on my experiences in the 19070s!) but her choice was absolutely the right one, at least for her. She had a fabulous experience at Princeton, very undergrad focused, so had incredible opportunities with professors for research, money from Princeton thrown at her for various summer projects (largest endowment per student by far), beautiful and safe campus but a quick trip into NYC or Philly for weekend jaunts. Eating club scene much more open and less preppy than the reputation, and paradoxically much less based on social/economic background than sororities or finals clubs or other social organizations at city schools, because parties/activities at Princeton cost nothing or close to nothing (unlike Penn/Columbia even Boston, where have and have-nots separated by who can afford to go out to dinner at fancy places or clubbing). Eating club costs covered by financial aid.

I'm not sure how the eating clubs are currently perceived. When I went to Princeton in the early 80s, there were three that were very preppy and composed primarily of wealthy private school graduates, one that was heavily Jewish, a couple that were similar to frats or sororities at a big state school, one that was for the artsy kids and stoners, and a bunch that had a broader cross-section of students. Some have since closed and the reputations of the clubs change over time. I was fine joining one, the other members were nice, and the food was definitely a step up from Commons (the main cafeteria), but it seemed like an archaic system compared to the residential colleges at Yale. I think every generation of Princeton students makes its peace with the eating clubs, but as long as the university tolerates a system that requires students to declare their "social major," the school will have a reputation for exclusivity that to some extent is deserved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to Harvard for undergrad and grad school, and taught there for many years. The location is great, and the opportunities are many, but undergrads are truly an afterthought in terms of the professors, they could care less about teaching, and they are hired for their research credentials/academic accomplishments and grant money they can bring in, not teaching. I moved to DC, and my DD decided to go to Princeton over Harvard. I was a bit concerned based on the eating club/conservative reputation (of course based on my experiences in the 19070s!) but her choice was absolutely the right one, at least for her. She had a fabulous experience at Princeton, very undergrad focused, so had incredible opportunities with professors for research, money from Princeton thrown at her for various summer projects (largest endowment per student by far), beautiful and safe campus but a quick trip into NYC or Philly for weekend jaunts. Eating club scene much more open and less preppy than the reputation, and paradoxically much less based on social/economic background than sororities or finals clubs or other social organizations at city schools, because parties/activities at Princeton cost nothing or close to nothing (unlike Penn/Columbia even Boston, where have and have-nots separated by who can afford to go out to dinner at fancy places or clubbing). Eating club costs covered by financial aid.

I'm not sure how the eating clubs are currently perceived. When I went to Princeton in the early 80s, there were three that were very preppy and composed primarily of wealthy private school graduates, one that was heavily Jewish, a couple that were similar to frats or sororities at a big state school, one that was for the artsy kids and stoners, and a bunch that had a broader cross-section of students. Some have since closed and the reputations of the clubs change over time. I was fine joining one, the other members were nice, and the food was definitely a step up from Commons (the main cafeteria), but it seemed like an archaic system compared to the residential colleges at Yale. I think every generation of Princeton students makes its peace with the eating clubs, but as long as the university tolerates a system that requires students to declare their "social major," the school will have a reputation for exclusivity that to some extent is deserved.

Any school that accepts 6 to 7 percent of applicants has a deserved reputation for "exclusivity." There's just no getting around that.

[Anonymous]

ALL of these colleges are exclusive, but I think PP is talking about exclusivity WITHIN that set of the select few. Where you're not safe from being excluded even once you've received an acceptance letter, about something as banal and ordinary as where to eat lunch.

Still, the above story about the other PP kid's experience of the eating clubs is reassuring, certainly.

[Anonymous]

Yale. I think it has a better undergraduate experience than Harvard and a better social environment than Princeton. I like the residential college system at Yale for building cohesion among the study body.The eating club scene at Princeton, even with sign in clubs, leaves something to be desired. Having said this, I think Princeton has a lot to offer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to Harvard for undergrad and grad school, and taught there for many years. The location is great, and the opportunities are many, but undergrads are truly an afterthought in terms of the professors, they could care less about teaching, and they are hired for their research credentials/academic accomplishments and grant money they can bring in, not teaching. I moved to DC, and my DD decided to go to Princeton over Harvard. I was a bit concerned based on the eating club/conservative reputation (of course based on my experiences in the 19070s!) but her choice was absolutely the right one, at least for her. She had a fabulous experience at Princeton, very undergrad focused, so had incredible opportunities with professors for research, money from Princeton thrown at her for various summer projects (largest endowment per student by far), beautiful and safe campus but a quick trip into NYC or Philly for weekend jaunts. Eating club scene much more open and less preppy than the reputation, and paradoxically much less based on social/economic background than sororities or finals clubs or other social organizations at city schools, because parties/activities at Princeton cost nothing or close to nothing (unlike Penn/Columbia even Boston, where have and have-nots separated by who can afford to go out to dinner at fancy places or clubbing). Eating club costs covered by financial aid.

I'm not sure how the eating clubs are currently perceived. When I went to Princeton in the early 80s, there were three that were very preppy and composed primarily of wealthy private school graduates, one that was heavily Jewish, a couple that were similar to frats or sororities at a big state school, one that was for the artsy kids and stoners, and a bunch that had a broader cross-section of students. Some have since closed and the reputations of the clubs change over time. I was fine joining one, the other members were nice, and the food was definitely a step up from Commons (the main cafeteria), but it seemed like an archaic system compared to the residential colleges at Yale. I think every generation of Princeton students makes its peace with the eating clubs, but as long as the university tolerates a system that requires students to declare their "social major," the school will have a reputation for exclusivity that to some extent is deserved.

Any school that accepts 6 to 7 percent of applicants has a deserved reputation for "exclusivity." There's just no getting around that.

Sure, but there's a difference between selectivity and social exclusivity. And I think that, for some students, it's a bit exhausting to make one's way through a highly competitive admissions process and gain admission to a school like Princeton, and listen to the university take credit for assembling a diverse student body, and then watch the social stratification associated with the eating clubs. But, quite honestly, I attended the school at a time when there was a lot of criticism of the eating clubs and a sense that they might be disbanded in the not-too-distant future. Students today actually seen more, not less, comfortable with the clubs, perhaps because the clubs arecmore welcoming, because the students are more comfortable with social exclusivity, or both.