Why don't white students go to Banneker?

[Anonymous]

I have an honest question and would appreciate an honest answer. We are a white family with a white son and are on the wait list for Cleveland. Will we not be welcome because the students and parents are predominately of color? To the PP who states how important it is for her child to be with high achieving AAs (and I get that!) will you not feel comfortable with my family at Cleveland?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:16:29 again. Someone commented earlier that high SES AAs may even be more likely to opt out of DCPS than high SES white families. If true, any idea why that might be?

Whoops, wrong thread--but I'm still curious!

My guess is that there is more concern for high SES AAs that their kid will fall in with the wrong crowd in DCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would you not think your white student can score higher than MoCo average for white scores at Banneker?

Because white students' scores are higher because they go to schools with lots of other people with high scores. Your logic would make more sense if whites were somehow inherently better at the SATs than blacks, such that any other difference away from the mean has to be explained by school performance. But of course that's not true. Their scores are higher because of some combination of cultural biases on the test and because they spend more time in peer groups of other kids who are likely to obtain high scores. Regardless of the precise balance of reasons that white scores are higher, the surest way to perpetuate that high score is to send your kid to a school with high overall test scores and a lot of white kids.

Testing gaps appear before Kindergarten. The issue is a lot more complex than what you make it appear to be.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/sats/etc/gap.html

I agree I was oversimplifying, but the linchpin of the argument "if black Banneker students score above the average for blacks, then white Banneker students would score above the average for whites" is that the reason black Banneker students outperform the average for blacks is because of something unique to Banneker that would necessarily apply equally to whites (and would be unavailable at the other schools white students might attend). And there is no reason to make that assumption. Maybe black Banneker students outperform the average for blacks because they test in to the school. Or maybe they outperform the average for blacks because the fact that they applied shows that they have parents who are unusually invested in their education. Or maybe Banneker gives them the opportunity to attend a school with other highly-motivated and intelligent black students, and that helps bolster their success. There's no reason to assume that any of those factors would apply in the same manner and to the same degree to a white student.

But there's also no reason to think that Banneker does NOT provide something that wouldn't also apply equally to white students, right? For example, maybe their curriculum is so awesome that it increases test scores among whites by the same margin that it does among black students. We don't know what to predict, really, since there's too few white students to provide this sort of data.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:16:29 again. Someone commented earlier that high SES AAs may even be more likely to opt out of DCPS than high SES white families. If true, any idea why that might be?

Whoops, wrong thread--but I'm still curious!

My guess is that there is more concern for high SES AAs that their kid will fall in with the wrong crowd in DCPS.

There's a lot more to it than that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would you not think your white student can score higher than MoCo average for white scores at Banneker?

Because white students' scores are higher because they go to schools with lots of other people with high scores. Your logic would make more sense if whites were somehow inherently better at the SATs than blacks, such that any other difference away from the mean has to be explained by school performance. But of course that's not true. Their scores are higher because of some combination of cultural biases on the test and because they spend more time in peer groups of other kids who are likely to obtain high scores. Regardless of the precise balance of reasons that white scores are higher, the surest way to perpetuate that high score is to send your kid to a school with high overall test scores and a lot of white kids.

They are, just as asians and ashkenazi jews are even better than regular whites at sat's.

Just like blacks are way better at the 100m dash. And no, blacks aren't faster because there's a cultural bias in sprinting and they spend more time around fast kids.

The surest way to make sure you have high test scores is to make it a priority in your home and to prep outside of school. The best of both worlds is when you do that and yet go to a school with low scores because you look like an outlier and therefore better for college applicants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi everyone,

I'm a reporter with the Washington City Paper, and I'm working on a story on a question that has been raised several times on this forum: Why don't white students go to Banneker? I'm interested in speaking with parents who fall under one of these categories:

- You have (or recently have) a child at Banneker
- You're considering Banneker
- You opted not to apply to Banneker, or got in but decided not to go there

If you match the description, please feel free to send me an email at awiener (at) washingtoncitypaper (dot) com.

Thanks very much!
Aaron

Because its Majority Black and located in Georgia Avenue near Howard University. Whites will not send their kids to majority black schools regardless of the test scores. People will say "Wilson" but lets be honest the "honor courses" or "humanities program" are Majority white and a school within a school where whites are the majority

Then how do explain all of the sudden interest in Cleveland Elementary School right down the street? White people just discovered it. It frequently appeared on this year's DCUM lottery threads.

(I'm black and didn't mention Cleveland to a soul until my kids got in. It's golden. Also one of the things I loved about Cleveland is that is majority AA/Latino, so my kids get to experience a strong minority populated educational setting, where all of the high achievers and school leadership looked like them.)

Wow, that's racist

Yup. PP is openly saying that they don't want white students around, because they would destroy that spirit of a place "where all of the high achievers and school leadership looked like them."

Amazing

I'm the PP and what I am openly saying is that I was very pleased that my children have an abundance of role models at Cleveland (and Banneker), positives images of themselves reflected back at them, that this is an aspect of their educational experience that I paid attention to and highly value. Yup.

It's wonderful that there are responsible, caring black men throughout the school who counter by their very presence the pervasive negative image of black men. They get to walk past the men hanging out on the corners and see black men in positive leadership positions on a daily basis, and interact with these men in a way that powerfully relates to them that caregiving is a positive aspect of manhood, not a weakness. Young girls get to see the respect and authority black women can attain through education, when most of what they're offered is of the Video Vixen variety. Great role models. Positive, empowering atmosphere, and a strong sense of community. None of this has anything to do with what you choose to do with your children and quite a bit of what I choose to do with mine.

Let's see how much of this assets-based perspective makes it into the WP article.

So only black role models? Many white kids think of neil de grass Tyson as their role model. Sounds like the aa community needs a different perspective than skin color.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would you not think your white student can score higher than MoCo average for white scores at Banneker?

Because white students' scores are higher because they go to schools with lots of other people with high scores. Your logic would make more sense if whites were somehow inherently better at the SATs than blacks, such that any other difference away from the mean has to be explained by school performance. But of course that's not true. Their scores are higher because of some combination of cultural biases on the test and because they spend more time in peer groups of other kids who are likely to obtain high scores. Regardless of the precise balance of reasons that white scores are higher, the surest way to perpetuate that high score is to send your kid to a school with high overall test scores and a lot of white kids.

Testing gaps appear before Kindergarten. The issue is a lot more complex than what you make it appear to be.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/sats/etc/gap.html

I agree I was oversimplifying, but the linchpin of the argument "if black Banneker students score above the average for blacks, then white Banneker students would score above the average for whites" is that the reason black Banneker students outperform the average for blacks is because of something unique to Banneker that would necessarily apply equally to whites (and would be unavailable at the other schools white students might attend). And there is no reason to make that assumption. Maybe black Banneker students outperform the average for blacks because they test in to the school. Or maybe they outperform the average for blacks because the fact that they applied shows that they have parents who are unusually invested in their education. Or maybe Banneker gives them the opportunity to attend a school with other highly-motivated and intelligent black students, and that helps bolster their success. There's no reason to assume that any of those factors would apply in the same manner and to the same degree to a white student.

But there's also no reason to think that Banneker does NOT provide something that wouldn't also apply equally to white students, right? For example, maybe their curriculum is so awesome that it increases test scores among whites by the same margin that it does among black students. We don't know what to predict, really, since there's too few white students to provide this sort of data.

Sure it is possible. Though I think it is at least equally plausible - if not more so - that if some confluence of cultural, familial, and socioeconomic factors cause white kids to have better SAT scores, then the best way for a parent of a white child to ensure a good SAT score is to send their kids to the same school that a lot of other white kids who get high SAT scores are going. That is, my hunch is that sticking a kid in that environment has at least as much effect on SAT scores as sending them to a different school with a slightly better academics. It is totally plausible to me that Banneker has a better educational philosophy and better teachers than Walls and yet a white student might nonetheless do as well or better on the SATs by going to Walls. I can't imagine there is sufficient data to answer this question empirically.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's a topic that should be addressed in your piece – SAT scores. How does a selective admission school score below the national average on the SAT?

Below is data taken directly from the Banneker web site:
http://benjaminbanneker.k12.dc.us/about_bbahs.html

READING
DCPS 473
Banneker 496
National 496

MATH
DCPS 466
Banneker 506
National 514



WRITING
DCPS 461
Banneker 486
National 488

Those Banneker scores seem surprisingly low. If true, well, that answers the reporter's question.

I was thinking the same thing. For a test in school, the scores aren't anything special. It would be helpful to compare them to Wilson and TJ in Va, a real test in school. As for parents not sending their white kids to a majority AA school, that really oversimplifies the issues. its that a white kid would likely be the ONLY white kid in the entire school. I would worry about bullying, exclusion etc if that were my kid. No one wants to be the ONLY. Most white parents have their elem kids in majority non white elem schools but parents worry less about elem. By middle and high school, parents with high achieving kids (And also likely higher income), know its time to really buckle down and get hard core into academics, IB, AP and honors. Also, middle and HS is when the really serious behvaviroal and violent issues start to play out as the kids get older. The challenges of very low income kids really becomes a different reality at that age.

This. I moved to DC from Europe without much of a clue about race relations in this country. It didn't take long living in DC to realize that there is quite a bit of anti-white sentiment among black people in this town. I am a liberal and know that there are partially understandable reasons for that, but it is this fact that makes me not want to send my kids to a school that is almost entirely or even majority black, regardless of test scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's socioeconomic too. Many of you do not seem to realize that there is a large contingent of high SES AA families that opt out of DCPS and charters after ES and go private.

So true! Most of my high SES AA friends, relatives, and myself included opt out of DCPS period. We all send our children to private schools.

Not even Wilson?

Np here, my sister and I went to Bullis.

Another high SES native Washingtonian. I went to Holton-Arms. My mother never even considered DCPS for me. Sisters and cousins all went to NCS, Sidwell or GDS.

[Anonymous]

^^ AA also and now a mom of three who are in charters. I would consider Banneker for them but we are many many years away from HD

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^not representative of all white people

I'm quite a few years away, but I'd definitely encourage my white(ish) kids to consider it. They'll understand being a minority going through elementary school. So unless that's a real problem for them, why not?

+1. My white kids will be starting at a majority black school this fall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's a topic that should be addressed in your piece – SAT scores. How does a selective admission school score below the national average on the SAT?

Below is data taken directly from the Banneker web site:
http://benjaminbanneker.k12.dc.us/about_bbahs.html

READING
DCPS 473
Banneker 496
National 496

MATH
DCPS 466
Banneker 506
National 514



WRITING
DCPS 461
Banneker 486
National 488

Those Banneker scores seem surprisingly low. If true, well, that answers the reporter's question.

I was thinking the same thing. For a test in school, the scores aren't anything special. It would be helpful to compare them to Wilson and TJ in Va, a real test in school. As for parents not sending their white kids to a majority AA school, that really oversimplifies the issues. its that a white kid would likely be the ONLY white kid in the entire school. I would worry about bullying, exclusion etc if that were my kid. No one wants to be the ONLY. Most white parents have their elem kids in majority non white elem schools but parents worry less about elem. By middle and high school, parents with high achieving kids (And also likely higher income), know its time to really buckle down and get hard core into academics, IB, AP and honors. Also, middle and HS is when the really serious behvaviroal and violent issues start to play out as the kids get older. The challenges of very low income kids really becomes a different reality at that age.

This. I moved to DC from Europe without much of a clue about race relations in this country. It didn't take long living in DC to realize that there is quite a bit of anti-white sentiment among black people in this town. I am a liberal and know that there are partially understandable reasons for that, but it is this fact that makes me not want to send my kids to a school that is almost entirely or even majority black, regardless of test scores.

Agreed. I got a very similar impression when moving here (from California). That attitude, combined with clearly lower test and SAT scores than relevant alternatives, makes it very unlikely our kids will go to Banneker.

[Anonymous]

Location (move it downtown for more diversity), being an only.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have an honest question and would appreciate an honest answer. We are a white family with a white son and are on the wait list for Cleveland. Will we not be welcome because the students and parents are predominately of color? To the PP who states how important it is for her child to be with high achieving AAs (and I get that!) will you not feel comfortable with my family at Cleveland?

I'm the PP. We could meet for coffee at Kafe Bohem, like I have with other parents (moms and dads, black and white). I've never heard an unwelcoming comment or bad experience with parents from any group, including gay couples with kids who attend. One of the things I love about the school is the family atmosphere. If you get a spot, you'd be mad not to take it. Let me know the grade and language, I'll introduce myself.

I assess Cleveland's value from my perspective. I posted to highlight what I see as a plus. You'll find Cleveland great for your own reasons. Flat out, it's a terrific school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi everyone,

I'm a reporter with the Washington City Paper, and I'm working on a story on a question that has been raised several times on this forum: Why don't white students go to Banneker? I'm interested in speaking with parents who fall under one of these categories:

- You have (or recently have) a child at Banneker
- You're considering Banneker
- You opted not to apply to Banneker, or got in but decided not to go there

If you match the description, please feel free to send me an email at awiener (at) washingtoncitypaper (dot) com.

Thanks very much!
Aaron

Because its Majority Black and located in Georgia Avenue near Howard University. Whites will not send their kids to majority black schools regardless of the test scores. People will say "Wilson" but lets be honest the "honor courses" or "humanities program" are Majority white and a school within a school where whites are the majority

Then how do explain all of the sudden interest in Cleveland Elementary School right down the street? White people just discovered it. It frequently appeared on this year's DCUM lottery threads.

(I'm black and didn't mention Cleveland to a soul until my kids got in. It's golden. Also one of the things I loved about Cleveland is that is majority AA/Latino, so my kids get to experience a strong minority populated educational setting, where all of the high achievers and school leadership looked like them.)

Wow, that's racist

Yup. PP is openly saying that they don't want white students around, because they would destroy that spirit of a place "where all of the high achievers and school leadership looked like them."

Amazing

I'm the PP and what I am openly saying is that I was very pleased that my children have an abundance of role models at Cleveland (and Banneker), positives images of themselves reflected back at them, that this is an aspect of their educational experience that I paid attention to and highly value. Yup.

It's wonderful that there are responsible, caring black men throughout the school who counter by their very presence the pervasive negative image of black men. They get to walk past the men hanging out on the corners and see black men in positive leadership positions on a daily basis, and interact with these men in a way that powerfully relates to them that caregiving is a positive aspect of manhood, not a weakness. Young girls get to see the respect and authority black women can attain through education, when most of what they're offered is of the Video Vixen variety. Great role models. Positive, empowering atmosphere, and a strong sense of community. None of this has anything to do with what you choose to do with your children and quite a bit of what I choose to do with mine.

Let's see how much of this assets-based perspective makes it into the WP article.

So only black role models? Many white kids think of neil de grass Tyson as their role model. Sounds like the aa community needs a different perspective than skin color.

I am not The Black Community. I'm a mother of children who attend Cleveland Elementary School. My perspective.

Why is the idea of black children looking up to black role models so threatening anyway? And, where did I say "only"?