Government jobs for lawyers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work 40 hrs plus 30 min lunch daily with no evenings or weekend work. I clock in and out and need to get permission from supervisor to take more than one hour lunch even if I'm not billing that time towards my daily 8 hrs. I'm more than seven years out from an ivy law school still making barely 75k.

Which really shows how the manager can make a difference.

So you're a GS-12?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For someone with so much experience, you aren't very good at posing questions. What field are you in?

The lack of precision is, indeed, odd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Also, what is "state"? Us non-govt lawyers are not familiar with govt slang, lol.

Uh, the Department of State? You know, the cabinet agency?

What a moron.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My position is excepted service. I work at a large non-dod agency in the office of general counsel. We do not have to post on USA jobs since we are excepted service, nor is there veteran's preference. I was hired directly out of law school because I knew someone. Since I was hired directly out of law school, they sent me to extensive training- including courses at the JAG school in Charlottesville.

I work a compressed schedule. 7:30-5:00, with every other Friday off. I telework two days a week. My group does not litigate. I work late a couple times a year during our busy season at the end of the fiscal year. I believe in my agency's mission, so the work is rewarding even if the pay is not!

So u just wanted to do a humble brag to show how good u got it?

[Anonymous]

Think lond and hard about making such a move. The pay drop is very significant. And many folks from private firms find govt attorneys to be socially awkward.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Also, what is "state"? Us non-govt lawyers are not familiar with govt slang, lol.

Uh, the Department of State? You know, the cabinet agency?

What a moron.

Who?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My position is excepted service. I work at a large non-dod agency in the office of general counsel. We do not have to post on USA jobs since we are excepted service, nor is there veteran's preference. I was hired directly out of law school because I knew someone. Since I was hired directly out of law school, they sent me to extensive training- including courses at the JAG school in Charlottesville.

I work a compressed schedule. 7:30-5:00, with every other Friday off. I telework two days a week. My group does not litigate. I work late a couple times a year during our busy season at the end of the fiscal year. I believe in my agency's mission, so the work is rewarding even if the pay is not!

So u just wanted to do a humble brag to show how good u got it?

OP's question was where in govt, and what position. Large non-dod agency,
in the office of general counsel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Also, what is "state"? Us non-govt lawyers are not familiar with govt slang, lol.

Uh, the Department of State? You know, the cabinet agency?

What a moron.

Indeed, you are. I would have called you an insulting piece of trash, but we can agree on moron.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Think lond and hard about making such a move. The pay drop is very significant. And many folks from private firms find govt attorneys to be socially awkward.

The pay drop is indeed significant. But I must say I find my government colleagues to be delightful and far better conversationalists than anyone at the firm. At the government people ask you about your weekend and actually are interested in the answer. And the answer isn't "oh, I was here all weekend" like it always is in big law. (Even if you aren't there you have to pretend you are.) Sure, people in my office are a little quirky and eccentric, but so am I. Government can be a great place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I think you are looking for advice like - civil rights doj is more cushy than national courts or criminal frauds - or work for sec not HHS. It's very hard to give that advice because most people haven't worked at multiple agencies. Also your firm experience will factor into whether you are a good candidate. I work in a litigating section of main justice. My advice would be to:
1. Look for jobs that actually sound interesting to you.
2. Litigation jobs generally require more hours and travel but nowhere near what law firms do. The autonomy you have even when working a lot is priceless.
3. Main DOJ jobs vary in the amount of hours but you def want to do research on how much the sections travel.
4. Some AUSA jobs are pretty demanding but still not like the firm. They tend to pay less than main justice. But an ausa job that's not in a major city is pretty cushy.
5. Agency jobs (HHS, HUD etc) tend to be more 9-5.

Of course this is based on my experience and someone might chime in and say I don't know what I'm talking about. I guess my main point is don't apply for a job just because you think it is cushy because you probably won't get it and if you do you might be horribly bored. I don't know of any regular job (ie not White House counsels office or something like that) in the gov where you are going to work like you do at a law firm.

I know you were just giving examples, but do you happen to know what QOL is like at Criminal Frauds or National Courts?

I believe (at least some people) travel a ton in criminal frauds. No idea about national courts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Think lond and hard about making such a move. The pay drop is very significant. And many folks from private firms find govt attorneys to be socially awkward.

The pay drop is indeed significant. But I must say I find my government colleagues to be delightful and far better conversationalists than anyone at the firm. At the government people ask you about your weekend and actually are interested in the answer. And the answer isn't "oh, I was here all weekend" like it always is in big law. (Even if you aren't there you have to pretend you are.) Sure, people in my office are a little quirky and eccentric, but so am I. Government can be a great place.

+1

I find my government colleagues to be friendly, outgoing, collegial, and interesting. Perhaps it's because we have time to have a life outside of work.

[Anonymous]

I'm also 7 years out of school work for a federal agency now after a doing contract work with firms. Our agency has 3 days telework and flexible start times. Still only a GS-12 , promotion potential competitive to a 13 in the current position. Upward mobility after that is highly limited and competitive.

However, it's a trade off. You have to decide at some point which is more important to you the $$ or the work/life balance.

I have never worked in big law, but i'm familiar with the lifestyle and have had MANY collegues burn out and make the shift to govt IF they can get in and are willing to take an almost entry level position to start.

There is no shame in saying the upward mobility and $$ are more important to you or that you prefer the life balance. It's your call but a tough decision to make.

[Anonymous]

National Courts can be very demanding, but they've recently been able to hire lots of attorneys, so the workload has gotten more manageable than in past years. Can be much more than 40 hours/week at times. Not much travel, but if a string of depos hits for an out-of-town case, there can be decent amount of travel. Also there are some multi-week trials that happen outside of DC.

Other things you may be interested in: 1 day/week telework (but only after you've been there for one year), no overtime (only way to get extra vacation time is through after-hours work travel), no alternative work schedules.

Overall, I'd say the litigation experience is probably as good as you're going to get for civil work, but I'm sure there are better QOL options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm also 7 years out of school work for a federal agency now after a doing contract work with firms. Our agency has 3 days telework and flexible start times. Still only a GS-12 , promotion potential competitive to a 13 in the current position. Upward mobility after that is highly limited and competitive.

However, it's a trade off. You have to decide at some point which is more important to you the $$ or the work/life balance.

I have never worked in big law, but i'm familiar with the lifestyle and have had MANY collegues burn out and make the shift to govt IF they can get in and are willing to take an almost entry level position to start.

There is no shame in saying the upward mobility and $$ are more important to you or that you prefer the life balance. It's your call but a tough decision to make.

Where??