Language Immersion Schools and Reading Levels

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are cognitive differences between monolinguals and bilinguals, but I think it's a stretch to regard one or the other as "superior" cognitively (although bilinguals have the language advantage, obviously).

Bilinguals are better at tasks requiring extended use of executive function; switching tasks, focusing attention, inhibiting external stimulus.

Monolinguals are quicker at word recall. But at a slightly greater risk of dementia.

If this was true, bilinguals the world over would be cognitively superior, which they clearly aren't. More students in other countries speak more than one other language, most children in African countries for example speak English as well as other language. There are so many issues involved, if you can learn two languages early great; however, it is more important to be proficient in reading, writing, speaking, and listening in the dominant language of the country you reside in. As others have also stated, it is important to learn the language outside the classroom. If learning a non-dominant language in the classroom was merely sufficient then ELL students would not be struggling at DCPS or nationwide, especially Latino students.

Soooo, what I'm getting here is that being bilingual does not result in cognitive advantages because "look at all those dumb ass African and Latino kids". Is that about right?

This. DH taught English in an African country in the Peace Corp. The kids who were taught English were the elite who went on to be high ranking government functionaries. Not everyone is taught English. In fact, in the country he taught in most kids only went to school up to 6th grade.

They didn't become high-ranking government functionaries on account of cognitive advantages bestowed by bilingualism. They went on to their jobs because they were a) children of high-ranking government functionaries already, and b) to a lesser degree, were taught a high-status language. Do you think children from poor families who happen to speak two low-status African languages wold fare as well?

No, they didn't become functionaries bc of the "cognitive advantages..." No... THAT issue was something that NEVER came up. The poor kids probably never went to school at all and basically stayed illiterate even in their primary language. Not all that different from some kids who go to DCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Less than half of students at DCPS are at grade level in English, so introducing another language in early elementary for the cognitive benefits of bilingualism is not going to happen anytime soon.

I am confused by your response. There are many children in DC public schools (DCPS and Charter) who are learning a second language for the cognitive benefits of bilingualism already. On the other hand, I agree that it might not be the right choice for all students, as there are many who need further support in the basics. Not all children are starting from the same place and growing up in the same environment, and they have different needs. But this should be obvious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Less than half of students at DCPS are at grade level in English, so introducing another language in early elementary for the cognitive benefits of bilingualism is not going to happen anytime soon.

I am confused by your response. There are many children in DC public schools (DCPS and Charter) who are learning a second language for the cognitive benefits of bilingualism already. On the other hand, I agree that it might not be the right choice for all students, as there are many who need further support in the basics. Not all children are starting from the same place and growing up in the same environment, and they have different needs. But this should be obvious.

I don't know anyone at our immersion charter who is there bc of the "cognitive benefits of bilingualism" as their primary reason. Most are either escaping an unacceptable IB school, their family has ties to the immersion language and/or they want their child to learn the target language.

While there probably are families who don't care about what language their kid is learning and send them solely for the "bilingual advantage", I've never met anyone where the target language does not matter. I agree with you that people have different needs and that's why some people prefer Spanish, Mandarin, etc but to not care about the language but want to pursue immersion solely for the cognitive benefit seems weird. But then I have strong preferences.


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[Anonymous]

Can bilingual-doubters stop hijacking threads with their BS. If you don't think bilingualism is worthwhile, fine. But, why do you need to come on threads and turn the conversation towards your doubt of the merits? OP is asking about reading levels, etc... Your hatred of bilingual learning can be put in another thread you start.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are cognitive differences between monolinguals and bilinguals, but I think it's a stretch to regard one or the other as "superior" cognitively (although bilinguals have the language advantage, obviously).

Bilinguals are better at tasks requiring extended use of executive function; switching tasks, focusing attention, inhibiting external stimulus.

Monolinguals are quicker at word recall. But at a slightly greater risk of dementia.

If this was true, bilinguals the world over would be cognitively superior, which they clearly aren't. More students in other countries speak more than one other language, most children in African countries for example speak English as well as other language. There are so many issues involved, if you can learn two languages early great; however, it is more important to be proficient in reading, writing, speaking, and listening in the dominant language of the country you reside in. As others have also stated, it is important to learn the language outside the classroom. If learning a non-dominant language in the classroom was merely sufficient then ELL students would not be struggling at DCPS or nationwide, especially Latino students.

Soooo, what I'm getting here is that being bilingual does not result in cognitive advantages because "look at all those dumb ass African and Latino kids". Is that about right?

No but by your logic, every country that speaks another language and has been doing for centuries is more advanced. I'm African and bilingual, these two factors in isolation alone to not make you "superior". You may have only just discovered bilingual education but Ethiopia and many other countries have been teaching this way for a long time. It is not a disadvantage, but not the magic elixir that it seems some of the proponents of recent DC charters seem to suppose.

[Anonymous]

You are not very good at logic, pp. The other pp did not say it was a magic elixer. But if all things are equal, it is a cognitive benefit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You are not very good at logic, pp. The other pp did not say it was a magic elixer. But if all things are equal, it is a cognitive benefit.

And the PP who had first-hand experience with bilingual education is telling you that if this cognitive advantage exists, then she's not seeing it to the degree American parents seem to value it.

[Anonymous]

bump

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You are not very good at logic, pp. The other pp did not say it was a magic elixer. But if all things are equal, it is a cognitive benefit.

The proponents of bilingual ed on this site are NOT stating "all things being equal", which is why people keep responding with their comments and sharing their experiences to the contary, but are making blanket statements about "bilingual" and cognitive benefits. Hence the comment by an African bilingual stating that many bilingual students in DCPS and other schools do not experience a "cognitive advantage"; not the racist comments implied by others, which is why we have ESL advocates and the new opening of the Internationals Program at Cardozo. If anyone cares there was a recent news item on the "Bilingual so called cognitive advantage" on Science Friday on NPR, the researcher stated that overall her own research did not actually show an advantage, but that the science journal chose to publish the one test that did show a slight advantage out of the others that didn't show any advantage. She was shocked that they cherry-picked her own data to prove an argument that was in fact not shown by her own research. Basically, the news item was about bias in research and what information gets selected and omitted and published in science and medical journals, misleading the public who often do not have access to all the raw test data.

[Anonymous]

I think there's a lot of confusion on this thread about what a "cognitive advantage" actually IS in the context of the research on bilingualism.

It doesn't mean bilinguals are smarter. It means a specific set of cognitive differences (that have been demonstrated experimentally, thought experiments about "clearly bilingual countries are not better" nonwithstanding).

Bilingual individuals are statistically later in cognitive decline due to aging. Bilingual children are more skilled at screening out irrelevant information and at focusing on relevant information. Bilingual adults have the same advantages but the differences are more subtle and difficult to detect, even under experimental conditions.

The cognitive advantages to bilingualism are theoretically interesting because they provide evidence of the plasticity of the brain, but the actual major advantage to bilingualism is that *you know another language.*