We want OP back, the respectful atheist! I do think it's wrong to say that believers need a boss or authority figure. Not me, nor many people I know. Those who need authority/structure can, if they want, join the military, a big corporation, or marry someone bossy. But, that was a bit of a derailment, as is the PP trying to argue with OP. This is a thread for posters to ask questions, so back to it! |
THIS! |
OP here. Sorry I stepped away for the evening and am just now getting back to this thread. I'm surprised to see it took off like it did! You and I both have our own view points. Mine is that there is no God. Yours is that Christianity (and no other religion) is truth. We're making the same bet at the end of the day, the bet that our conclusion is the right one. What if you're wrong and the "right answer" is Islam and Jesus was just a man? Not trolling but just asking the same question of me to you. Have I thought about eternity in Hell? I haven't because I don't think it exists. It's just like how I don't spend my time worrying that the Santa Clause might slip on rooftop and sue me. If you don't put much stock in it , you shouldn't spend much time thinking about it. Again being respectfulness here but can you see that your reasoning question assumes that Christianity is true, that it's a necessary condition? |
OP here. I believe that human beings evolved over millions of years from less complex organisms to what we are today. I do believe a that life is very random. I work a lot with statistics and numbers so I see this often in my professional life. Maybe it's biased my personal life as well but I doubt it. I think a lot of people aren't comfortable with randomness and the idea that there is someone controlling everything and looking out for them is incredibly reassuring. Is that reality though? I would argue no, it's not. How do I cope? Injustice, sad to say, is a part of life but so is successful, beauty, love, friendship, etc. You've got to take the good with the bad. I'm very fortunate in that I have a lot of love from family and friends that's helped me in times past when things have been hard. |
The universe is awesome, especially the fact that life arose and developed, not only incredibly well engineered creatures like hummingbirds, but humans who can build weak, but respectable, imitations like helicopters. I am an atheist not because I know that this was not all created by God, but because I do not think I am capable of understanding how it all came to be.
I respect those who see God as the Creator of all this, from those who see Him as a personal presence who once walked the earth as Jesus, to those who see Him as a metaphor not that different from my Great I Don't Know. I hope they all can find it in their hearts to respect that to me it is unknowable. |
23:22 again, just to add that I am not one of the atheists who has posted lately. |
Believer here.
God also created matter, time, order, mathematics , physical laws and logic. |
you mean not lately on this thread? You re not OP? |
Nope. I'm the poster formerly known as Takoma, and I don't recall posting in this thread before tonight. But I'm too lazy to go back and check for sure, especially since I've seen some things I wish I could have written, and given time I might convince myself that I did. |
father? I'm the mother. sort of a sexist undercurrent going on here . . . anyway . . . My son offended his sister and apologized. She accepted his apology. Life moves on. He has done nothing personally to me. How much guilt can we place on people? If this were a work situation , and I offended a colleague (nothing over the top), why should I apologize to my boss? |
OP here. I think what you're saying is a big stretch at best or circular reasoning at worst. You're assuming God exists in the first place. |
I think the reasoning behind son's apology is different. If he apologised just to his sister, do you think he is really remorseful and never ever going to do it again? Just saying sorry doesn't mean that he is sorry for pushing a woman. Asking forgiveness from God involves processing the act and consequences inside your mind and changing your mind. To OP: you are viewing all religions the same way (I assuming this was your quote: "What if you're wrong and the "right answer" is Islam and Jesus was just a man? Not trolling but just asking the same question of me to you."?). If you do a research, you will easily separate human created religion from the God, it is no brainer. I also have a question for you since you said that bad things just happens. Have you not seen any connection why the bad things are happen? I know it is hard to see the connection when bad things happens to people we don't know -- like the plane crashed into the house, or the mention burned with 4 young children. But if you look at the lives of the people you know very well (or your own life) -- do you just ignore the connection or you cannot make the logical connection? |
Who created God? If you believe "matter, time, order, mathematics, physical laws and logic" couldn't have come from nothing, why isn't the same true for God? |
non-OP atheist here -- what is the logical connection you think is being ignored? |
God exists outside of time itself. Time is a creation applicable only to the Universe which is also a creation. Our minds are not capable of comprehending Gods capacity. |