need feedback from a cannabis user married to a non user or vice versa

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm your daughter in this situation...my mom doesn't smoke and my dad is an avid smoker. They've had issues forever about it. Here's how it's turned out- I have lost respect for both my parents (my dad for never getting help and ignoring the problem and my mom for putting up/ignoring the problem), my dad is only nice when stoned, hates traveling to see his kids and grandkids unless he knows pot can be arranged, oh and my mom is a raging bitch because she is so resentful and angry.

So, yes, you can make the whole user/non-user relationship work (almost 40 years) but think about the ramifications carefully.

I don't think showing him how people who don't have addictive personalities can be successful with only smoking weekly/occasionally. You seem to understand he is an addict but seem to also think you can get him to become less frequent. Addicts don't do moderation. But, honestly, good luck!

No, I _know_ that _I cant_ get him to be more moderate. I just wanted to show him an actual definition of moderate from an actual moderate user. As opposed to MY definition which he invalidates for all kinds of reasons, but especially because I am not a user. For the purpose of merely demonstrating that moderate is moderate as defined by actual users.

The one thing I have going for me is that my daughter and I talk very honestly with each other about DH's other issues, such as the anger. It was a tough decision, but important because I wanted her to understand that what was happening was not acceptable and to know that strategies are being implemented to help with his anger (his non weed meds and his own attempts to be more level). He has made a lot of progress, actually. BUt when he gets stressed out, he hits the weed. And gets very righteous about it- that is relatively new and disheartening.

If this continues and we are still together I will probably reveal it to her when she is old enough. She is now 8. Im thinking 12 or 13. But we will see. I may not have an opportunity to tell her before he exposes it and pushes the issue. She is very smart and mature- she knows a load of bull when she sees it. We' ve already discussed illegal drugs a bit. She will know more as years pass and we have more discussion. But, I have to give DH the benefit of the doubt now because she is so young and he needs a chance to come to terms with what he is actually doing. He may or may not. But I dont have the means to leave yet, so until then, I need to come up with a way of living with him in the state he is in as opposed to the state he ought to be in.

Thanks for sharing this personal story, I really appreciate it. Dont fault your mom too much for "putting up" with it. I dont think that is what she actually did- its pretty easy to not do this thing right. We also know so much more now about addiction. I doubt she had that benefit.

You two have a daughter together? That makes it even more important that you concentrate on getting your head in a better place. Your child may inherit a genetic predisposition to addiction and she needs to be educated about that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm your daughter in this situation...my mom doesn't smoke and my dad is an avid smoker. They've had issues forever about it. Here's how it's turned out- I have lost respect for both my parents (my dad for never getting help and ignoring the problem and my mom for putting up/ignoring the problem), my dad is only nice when stoned, hates traveling to see his kids and grandkids unless he knows pot can be arranged, oh and my mom is a raging bitch because she is so resentful and angry.

So, yes, you can make the whole user/non-user relationship work (almost 40 years) but think about the ramifications carefully.

I don't think showing him how people who don't have addictive personalities can be successful with only smoking weekly/occasionally. You seem to understand he is an addict but seem to also think you can get him to become less frequent. Addicts don't do moderation. But, honestly, good luck!

No, I _know_ that _I cant_ get him to be more moderate. I just wanted to show him an actual definition of moderate from an actual moderate user. As opposed to MY definition which he invalidates for all kinds of reasons, but especially because I am not a user. For the purpose of merely demonstrating that moderate is moderate as defined by actual users.

The one thing I have going for me is that my daughter and I talk very honestly with each other about DH's other issues, such as the anger. It was a tough decision, but important because I wanted her to understand that what was happening was not acceptable and to know that strategies are being implemented to help with his anger (his non weed meds and his own attempts to be more level). He has made a lot of progress, actually. BUt when he gets stressed out, he hits the weed. And gets very righteous about it- that is relatively new and disheartening.

If this continues and we are still together I will probably reveal it to her when she is old enough. She is now 8. Im thinking 12 or 13. But we will see. I may not have an opportunity to tell her before he exposes it and pushes the issue. She is very smart and mature- she knows a load of bull when she sees it. We' ve already discussed illegal drugs a bit. She will know more as years pass and we have more discussion. But, I have to give DH the benefit of the doubt now because she is so young and he needs a chance to come to terms with what he is actually doing. He may or may not. But I dont have the means to leave yet, so until then, I need to come up with a way of living with him in the state he is in as opposed to the state he ought to be in.

Thanks for sharing this personal story, I really appreciate it. Dont fault your mom too much for "putting up" with it. I dont think that is what she actually did- its pretty easy to not do this thing right. We also know so much more now about addiction. I doubt she had that benefit.

Me again- I know she did everything she could to cope/deal with the situation. They both did. It just makes me so sad how angry and bitter she has become. Just please make sure you take care of yourself ( and your daughter). I made a lot of stupid decisions that probably stemmed from these issues and would hate for that to happen to your daughter. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here- yes, my OP also handles his anxiety with weed. It doesnt make him anxious. Ive never seen that in all these years.

It's VERY common for people to self- medicate depression, which can often come with anxiety, by shbstance abusing. it's called "dual diagnosis" in mental illness. OP, I suggest you read up on depression.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, relationships with addicts never work unless you enable the addiction. Are you sure it's just weed? Marijuana's a gateway drug to much more serious stuff.

Im not even sure what "enabling the addiction" even means anymore. I was deceived, and once I figure out I had been deceived, then I knew. And now I am on his shit list for not "accepting" he is a user, becuase, you see, that is the actual problem here, apparently. My lack of "acceptance" of "who he is".

He has had a history with other drugs in the past (before we dated). I dont believe he is using other drugs. I do know the symptoms of other drugs. But, after a certain amount of being lied to, anything is at least a theoretical future possibility.

He is also on antidepressants. He has a xanax script but he never takes it unless he gets severe muscle pain from whatever is causing that. I cant even remember the last time he took it. He has not ever refilled the original script for a few pills.

He seems to be a weed only kind of guy.

Today I turned a corner. He casually revealed to me that the period of time he was away on a work contract where he would have lost his job had he been caught with weed, the one where he told me he would not smoke, and confirmed he did not, he actually did. When I was shocked at this revelation he cruelly said I "should have known" and the problem is "I dont accept him for who he is" and he lies to me because I "act like something is a big deal that MOST PEOPLE would not think is a big deal".

So, in his alternate univere, the explicit language of the contract of this facility which stated very clearly the dire consequences to anyone caught even under the influence while there, is something MOST PEOPLE would not think is a big deal.

He has started to treat me like non user and therefore against him and who he is. Im pretty much resolved that he is lost to me. I explained that blaming me for his lying to me is sick and cruel. But, that is just "insulting" him.

I really want to know if al-anon will help me not be devastated anymore, help me not feel so betrayed, help me find a way to love him without anger. I just have a hard time seeing how this is possible.

I would have left long ago if I could have. This is just not something I can do and so I need to make this work as best I can for the sake of our child and our financial future.

Im grimly resolved to living with an addict who has alienated himself from me and runined everything about our relationship that was beautiful. And we really did have something. I am very very sad.

OP, I am not quite what you are looking for, but my story is relevant. My now exDH had undiagnosed bipolar depression when we met. His BP features a significant amount of anxiety. He did not use when we were dating, but about 2 years into our relationship I realized he was drinking in secret, stealing some pain medication I had for a back problem and cadging prescription anxiety meds while on overseas trips. I confronted him and we had differences over the next 6 months about the scale of his drinking problem. He argued, much like your DH, that the problem wasn't him it was me. I went to Al-Anon for awhile, which was helpful to some degree, but I don't really think it is structured for those who have mental illness, so I stopped going.

I could go on about the addiction cycle -- they say that the problem is you, that it's not that bad, etc. You argue about whether his use is reasonable or "addiction". You try to rationalize with them, and the cycle goes on. The bottom line is he shouldn't be using AT ALL given the meds he is on. It's that simple. Any use is a problem. Self-medicating with substance use while trying to treat a mood disorder (which depression and anxiety are) means that treatment will become useless.

From what you describe, it sounds to me like the real problem that is driving the pot smoking is underlying depression/anxiety that is being misdiagnosed and thus wrongly treated. You have described him as diagnosed with ADHD and depression and anxiety (that's what the Xanax is for -- it's an benzodiazepene which is an anti-anxiety class of meds). First, bipolar can often appear as ADHD because the patient is not able to accurately self report the full range of mood, and thus the diagnosis is missed by the doctor. Family members should be involved in treatment. You are wasting your time talking to a therapist while your DH is inappropriately medicated. You should be talking to the psychiatrist who is prescribing the AD and the Xanax. If anyone other than a psychiatrist highly experienced with mood disorders is dispensing these meds, then your DH is seeing the wrong kind of doc for his problem. Family doctors and internists simply do not have enough experience with mood disorders to treat your DH correctly.

The combination of ADHD, bipolar and anxiety, especially if it has been treatment resistant, should really be leading his treating psychiatrist to consider that he might be bipolar and would do better with a mood stabilizer. Read Frances Mondimore's short book, "Bipolar Disorder: A Guide for Patients and Families" and I am willing to be you recognize your DH. It is very common that an anti-depressant mistakenly prescribed to someone who is undiagnosed bipolar simply drives the agitation and anxiety even higher. Part of dealing with this is self-medicating with substance abuse. Does your DH have trouble sleeping? Is he smoking pot so he can go to sleep? Another clue that the real problem may be bipolar. Bipolar is a cycle of mania and depression. In "bipolar I" the mania is the kind of florid-I'm-a master-of-the-universe-and-can-fly kind of mania -- it's so over the top and delusional that it is easily recognizable. But, in "bipolar II" the mania is more of a hypomania and can be more subtle to distinguish. In either I or II the mania can be "dysphoric" instead of "euphoric" (aka happy). Dysphoric mania can be extremely irritable or angry.

You will NOT be able to address the substance abuse without first getting the correct underlying diagnosis and treatment. Then, once the meds are changed, the a good psychiatrist will also deal with trying to get DH to stop or cut back on substance abuse. If a substance abuse treatment is needed, DH will likely do better in a place that caters to dual diagnosed patients (both MI and substance abuse).

I am deeply saddened to read that you have written that your DC is 8 and that you will tell her when she is 12 or 13. You are deeply deluded if you think that being honest with her about the situation at 12 or 13 will protect her in any way. First, that is far too late, as she will likely find out on her own before then. Second, the damage you are doing by remaining in the house with someone who is inappropriately treated MI with substance abuse is incalculable. Please read up on adult children of alcoholics. They cycle for these kids is the same as for other kids with substance abusing or MI parents -- learning to distrust instincts, pretend that bad stuff isn't happening, and accepting abuse -- habits that can cause a lifetime of damage in children.

I get that you aren't financially independent, but, frankly, you should stop focusing on the substance abuse and start focusing on becoming financially independent. You need to go back to work full-time. You need to confess what is going on to a core group of reliable friends and family who can help you become independent. If you have to move to worse quarters or ask to move in with family, you should consider doing so. If you can't afford an attorney, seek help with pro-bono women's groups who help abused family members or those involved in substance abuse. (The anger is a damaging emotional abuse.) Thinking that you might wait 4 years down the road in this same situation is, frankly, your own kind of insanity. You MUST put on your own oxygen mask first.

Please get help from the National Alliance of the Mentally Ill. They have great support groups for family members with MI like general depression, bipolar depression, anxiety, PTSD, etc. They also run a great class called Family to Family. Read up on depression and bipolar depression -- great writers like William Styron, Andrew Solomon and Kay Redfield Jamison have written classic personal experiences of depression. Xavier Amador has a wonderful about how to talk to a family member with mental illness in a way that will help them get treatment. David Karp has written a wonderful book called the Burden of Sympathy, which address the moral dilemma we face in how far to go to try to get a family member help.

Major university hospitals are usually a good source of qualified psychiatrists skilled in mood disorders who accept a wide variety of insurances. Georgetown is good. John Hopkins is world-renowned for mood disorder treatment. I think GW and Inova in VA are also supposed to be good.

Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, relationships with addicts never work unless you enable the addiction. Are you sure it's just weed? Marijuana's a gateway drug to much more serious stuff.

Im not even sure what "enabling the addiction" even means anymore. I was deceived, and once I figure out I had been deceived, then I knew. And now I am on his shit list for not "accepting" he is a user, becuase, you see, that is the actual problem here, apparently. My lack of "acceptance" of "who he is".

He has had a history with other drugs in the past (before we dated). I dont believe he is using other drugs. I do know the symptoms of other drugs. But, after a certain amount of being lied to, anything is at least a theoretical future possibility.

He is also on antidepressants. He has a xanax script but he never takes it unless he gets severe muscle pain from whatever is causing that. I cant even remember the last time he took it. He has not ever refilled the original script for a few pills.

He seems to be a weed only kind of guy.

Today I turned a corner. He casually revealed to me that the period of time he was away on a work contract where he would have lost his job had he been caught with weed, the one where he told me he would not smoke, and confirmed he did not, he actually did. When I was shocked at this revelation he cruelly said I "should have known" and the problem is "I dont accept him for who he is" and he lies to me because I "act like something is a big deal that MOST PEOPLE would not think is a big deal".

So, in his alternate univere, the explicit language of the contract of this facility which stated very clearly the dire consequences to anyone caught even under the influence while there, is something MOST PEOPLE would not think is a big deal.

He has started to treat me like non user and therefore against him and who he is. Im pretty much resolved that he is lost to me. I explained that blaming me for his lying to me is sick and cruel. But, that is just "insulting" him.

I really want to know if al-anon will help me not be devastated anymore, help me not feel so betrayed, help me find a way to love him without anger. I just have a hard time seeing how this is possible.

I would have left long ago if I could have. This is just not something I can do and so I need to make this work as best I can for the sake of our child and our financial future.

Im grimly resolved to living with an addict who has alienated himself from me and runined everything about our relationship that was beautiful. And we really did have something. I am very very sad.

OP, I am not quite what you are looking for, but my story is relevant. My now exDH had undiagnosed bipolar depression when we met. His BP features a significant amount of anxiety. He did not use when we were dating, but about 2 years into our relationship I realized he was drinking in secret, stealing some pain medication I had for a back problem and cadging prescription anxiety meds while on overseas trips. I confronted him and we had differences over the next 6 months about the scale of his drinking problem. He argued, much like your DH, that the problem wasn't him it was me. I went to Al-Anon for awhile, which was helpful to some degree, but I don't really think it is structured for those who have mental illness, so I stopped going.

I could go on about the addiction cycle -- they say that the problem is you, that it's not that bad, etc. You argue about whether his use is reasonable or "addiction". You try to rationalize with them, and the cycle goes on. The bottom line is he shouldn't be using AT ALL given the meds he is on. It's that simple. Any use is a problem. Self-medicating with substance use while trying to treat a mood disorder (which depression and anxiety are) means that treatment will become useless.

From what you describe, it sounds to me like the real problem that is driving the pot smoking is underlying depression/anxiety that is being misdiagnosed and thus wrongly treated. You have described him as diagnosed with ADHD and depression and anxiety (that's what the Xanax is for -- it's an benzodiazepene which is an anti-anxiety class of meds). First, bipolar can often appear as ADHD because the patient is not able to accurately self report the full range of mood, and thus the diagnosis is missed by the doctor. Family members should be involved in treatment. You are wasting your time talking to a therapist while your DH is inappropriately medicated. You should be talking to the psychiatrist who is prescribing the AD and the Xanax. If anyone other than a psychiatrist highly experienced with mood disorders is dispensing these meds, then your DH is seeing the wrong kind of doc for his problem. Family doctors and internists simply do not have enough experience with mood disorders to treat your DH correctly.

The combination of ADHD, bipolar and anxiety, especially if it has been treatment resistant, should really be leading his treating psychiatrist to consider that he might be bipolar and would do better with a mood stabilizer. Read Frances Mondimore's short book, "Bipolar Disorder: A Guide for Patients and Families" and I am willing to be you recognize your DH. It is very common that an anti-depressant mistakenly prescribed to someone who is undiagnosed bipolar simply drives the agitation and anxiety even higher. Part of dealing with this is self-medicating with substance abuse. Does your DH have trouble sleeping? Is he smoking pot so he can go to sleep? Another clue that the real problem may be bipolar. Bipolar is a cycle of mania and depression. In "bipolar I" the mania is the kind of florid-I'm-a master-of-the-universe-and-can-fly kind of mania -- it's so over the top and delusional that it is easily recognizable. But, in "bipolar II" the mania is more of a hypomania and can be more subtle to distinguish. In either I or II the mania can be "dysphoric" instead of "euphoric" (aka happy). Dysphoric mania can be extremely irritable or angry.

You will NOT be able to address the substance abuse without first getting the correct underlying diagnosis and treatment. Then, once the meds are changed, the a good psychiatrist will also deal with trying to get DH to stop or cut back on substance abuse. If a substance abuse treatment is needed, DH will likely do better in a place that caters to dual diagnosed patients (both MI and substance abuse).

I am deeply saddened to read that you have written that your DC is 8 and that you will tell her when she is 12 or 13. You are deeply deluded if you think that being honest with her about the situation at 12 or 13 will protect her in any way. First, that is far too late, as she will likely find out on her own before then. Second, the damage you are doing by remaining in the house with someone who is inappropriately treated MI with substance abuse is incalculable. Please read up on adult children of alcoholics. They cycle for these kids is the same as for other kids with substance abusing or MI parents -- learning to distrust instincts, pretend that bad stuff isn't happening, and accepting abuse -- habits that can cause a lifetime of damage in children.

I get that you aren't financially independent, but, frankly, you should stop focusing on the substance abuse and start focusing on becoming financially independent. You need to go back to work full-time. You need to confess what is going on to a core group of reliable friends and family who can help you become independent. If you have to move to worse quarters or ask to move in with family, you should consider doing so. If you can't afford an attorney, seek help with pro-bono women's groups who help abused family members or those involved in substance abuse. (The anger is a damaging emotional abuse.) Thinking that you might wait 4 years down the road in this same situation is, frankly, your own kind of insanity. You MUST put on your own oxygen mask first.

Please get help from the National Alliance of the Mentally Ill. They have great support groups for family members with MI like general depression, bipolar depression, anxiety, PTSD, etc. They also run a great class called Family to Family. Read up on depression and bipolar depression -- great writers like William Styron, Andrew Solomon and Kay Redfield Jamison have written classic personal experiences of depression. Xavier Amador has a wonderful about how to talk to a family member with mental illness in a way that will help them get treatment. David Karp has written a wonderful book called the Burden of Sympathy, which address the moral dilemma we face in how far to go to try to get a family member help.

Major university hospitals are usually a good source of qualified psychiatrists skilled in mood disorders who accept a wide variety of insurances. Georgetown is good. John Hopkins is world-renowned for mood disorder treatment. I think GW and Inova in VA are also supposed to be good.

Good luck.

OP here- wow, thanks for taking the time to write all of that. You are correct in that, at least for me, bipolar is a possibility for him. But three psychiatrists so far do not see this. Also, it does appear he does not fit the bill for bipolar completely. In my opinion, he has a touch of it, at least.

I _did_ actually call Nami, thanks for reminding me about them. The person I spoke to there just threw out the concept of rage mania. So, not the mania we normally think of, but a rage form. And THAT could be what is alternating with the depression.

As with addiction, my hands are tied just as much with the mental illness. I cant make him act the way he acts here when he goes in to see these professionals. I think as someone that does have a mental illness in some form, he is quite accustomed to "passing" and knows how to do that.

Its hard to describe the details of what goes on around here. Despite the many problems, DH is actually a very good father and is not abusive towards her at all, and now that he is treated at least somewhat, the verbal abuse towards me as stopped. The main concern now is really that his underlying thinking just is not right. I wish I had time to go into examples. But I just wanted to say thank you all but you, pp in particular, for taking so much time with this post for me and to corroborate some of my other concerns. There is definitely something going on that isnt getting better, but I also have to be aware that there are some thigns that are. Surely those have some signficance, and my task as you point out is really to focus on getting independent financially so that IF and WHEN these issues become clear and indicate I must leave that I can.

Im afraid that part of what is playing into this is the general culture of acceptance of weed which is being used by my husband as a way of justifying not just his addiction but really all the shit that is being covered up by it. It doesnt make sense, but, to him it does not need to.

Thanks again and I have paid attention to everything you have said here, as well as the sound advice of others. Thank you all.

[Anonymous]

OP, you still around? How did everything turn out?
I’m in the same position now

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But, just to be fair 1000%, I want to hear from a non addict, the person who uses and has an honest relationship with their habit and their spouse.

If DH can move toward that, then that would be great. I think he needs an image of what to move towards and to "hear" that the problem is not that I dont get it.

His impression of me having no credibility on the difference between using and being addicted might have to give way with testimony from actual users. The three puffs lady was a perfect example.

Of course its up to him. I already have my plans. We are just financially strapped, and I have to focus on responses to him that create the most balance possible for our child.

First thing you need to do is accept that you can’t control him. You’re trying to maneuver him into a state of being that would make it easier to be around him. Stop trying to make him change. He has a serious substance abuse problem and needs to address it. But he won’t until he’s at risk of losing everything.

[Anonymous]

OP, I say this with compassion, please get yourself help. Get yourself into individual therapy and try a 12 step program if you want for families . You are focusing so excessively on him. You cannot change him. Work on understanding yourself...deeply. There are ways to obtain sliding scale treatment. This is the best thing you can do and this is what you have not yet grasped. Focus on yourself. Sending you my best.