Israelis Wipe out Entire Gaza Neighborhood

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hamas WANTS dead children to further their sick propaganda plot. Again, this is what designated terrorist organizations do.

This is total BS. Almost all those killed by Hamas have been soldiers. The vast majority of those killed by Israel have been civilians. If Hamas wants dead Palestinian children, why is Israel providing so many? Does Israel routinely help Hamas? Hamas wants fighter jets and tanks. Will Israel supply those too?

You realize that's because the soldiers are being killed in combat, while the rockets that hamas is firing indiscriminately in to Israel are being shot down by Iron Dome. I seem to recall a highschool classmate of mine who was blown up on a beach in Tel Aviv by a terrorist bomb - while her fried went to get ice cream. Do you really, truly believe that hamas isn't targeting civilians? they're just not very good at it. you're obviously entitled to your opinions, and clearly this is your own personal soapbox, but think carefully about the ripple effect of the things that you are saying. I don't agree with a lot of what Israel does, and i think the settlements are an absolute disgrace, but try walking a mile in someone else's shoes before you cast stones.

I know that I am wasting my time now -- and yes possibly risking my livelihood -- because the idea that Hamas is indiscriminately firing rockets at Israeli civilians is so ingrained in the thinking of most Americans that it will be impossible to change. But, Hamas itself claims to be aiming at military targets. The rockets have no guidance system, so it may not matter at what they think they are aiming. But, Hamas generally announces a military target when it announces the launches -- those targets just don't get reported in the US media. Three Israeli civilians have been killed by either rocket or mortar fire. One of those was killed while volunteering at a military base. I think if Hamas truly was targeting civilians, more would have been killed. Also, see this report:

http://www.timesofisrael.com/soldiers-not-civilians-are-tunnel-infiltration-goals-says-senior-intelligence-source/

"Hamas operatives aim primarily to abduct soldiers and not to penetrate into civilian communities along the border with Gaza, a senior intelligence source said Monday."

Indeed, Hamas used a tunnel last night to attempt to capture a soldier, ignoring a near by kibbutz. (Those who are familiar with my previous posts will know that I am reluctant to accept stories coming from single anonymous sources such as the one to which I linked. So, take it with a grain of salt and use your own discretion).

I'm sorry about your high school classmate. One of my university classmates was killed when a suicide bomber blew up the UN building in Iraq at the beginning of the US invasion. A former housemate was slightly wounded when some Palestinians shot up a street in Jerusalem. I am not naive about terrorists who intentionally target civilians. But, while it is difficult to believe, it appears that Hamas has evolved somewhat and is now concentrating on military targets. One hopes that this conflict does not result in a regression.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hamas WANTS dead children to further their sick propaganda plot. Again, this is what designated terrorist organizations do.

This is total BS. Almost all those killed by Hamas have been soldiers. The vast majority of those killed by Israel have been civilians. If Hamas wants dead Palestinian children, why is Israel providing so many? Does Israel routinely help Hamas? Hamas wants fighter jets and tanks. Will Israel supply those too?

You realize that's because the soldiers are being killed in combat, while the rockets that hamas is firing indiscriminately in to Israel are being shot down by Iron Dome. I seem to recall a highschool classmate of mine who was blown up on a beach in Tel Aviv by a terrorist bomb - while her fried went to get ice cream. Do you really, truly believe that hamas isn't targeting civilians? they're just not very good at it. you're obviously entitled to your opinions, and clearly this is your own personal soapbox, but think carefully about the ripple effect of the things that you are saying. I don't agree with a lot of what Israel does, and i think the settlements are an absolute disgrace, but try walking a mile in someone else's shoes before you cast stones.

I know that I am wasting my time now -- and yes possibly risking my livelihood -- because the idea that Hamas is indiscriminately firing rockets at Israeli civilians is so ingrained in the thinking of most Americans that it will be impossible to change. But, Hamas itself claims to be aiming at military targets. The rockets have no guidance system, so it may not matter at what they think they are aiming. But, Hamas generally announces a military target when it announces the launches -- those targets just don't get reported in the US media. Three Israeli civilians have been killed by either rocket or mortar fire. One of those was killed while volunteering at a military base. I think if Hamas truly was targeting civilians, more would have been killed. Also, see this report:

http://www.timesofisrael.com/soldiers-not-civilians-are-tunnel-infiltration-goals-says-senior-intelligence-source/

"Hamas operatives aim primarily to abduct soldiers and not to penetrate into civilian communities along the border with Gaza, a senior intelligence source said Monday."

Indeed, Hamas used a tunnel last night to attempt to capture a soldier, ignoring a near by kibbutz. (Those who are familiar with my previous posts will know that I am reluctant to accept stories coming from single anonymous sources such as the one to which I linked. So, take it with a grain of salt and use your own discretion).

I'm sorry about your high school classmate. One of my university classmates was killed when a suicide bomber blew up the UN building in Iraq at the beginning of the US invasion. A former housemate was slightly wounded when some Palestinians shot up a street in Jerusalem. I am not naive about terrorists who intentionally target civilians. But, while it is difficult to believe, it appears that Hamas has evolved somewhat and is now concentrating on military targets. One hopes that this conflict does not result in a regression.

Two points.

I'm actually a little surprised about how aggressive a stance you are taking - of course you're entitled to your opinions - but whether you realize it or not, when you engage in the kind of dialogue you're engaging in, you are providing fodder for anti-semites. It's just a fact. My guess is that you've already lost readers and contributors. That's obviously your call.

Second point -- we can argue until the cows come home about whether Hamas is targeting civilians, but when I hear from people who have travelled through Israel (as a civilian) over the last few weeks and they tell me stories about air raid sirens and shelters, I'm inclined to believe civilians are targeted. And negligent behavior in the form of firing rockets with no guidance is just as bad as specific intent.

[Anonymous]

Jeff (or anyone), do you know why these videos load on my iPhone but not kindle fire? The kindle is just blank. Thanks

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:
Two points.

I'm actually a little surprised about how aggressive a stance you are taking - of course you're entitled to your opinions - but whether you realize it or not, when you engage in the kind of dialogue you're engaging in, you are providing fodder for anti-semites. It's just a fact. My guess is that you've already lost readers and contributors. That's obviously your call.

Second point -- we can argue until the cows come home about whether Hamas is targeting civilians, but when I hear from people who have travelled through Israel (as a civilian) over the last few weeks and they tell me stories about air raid sirens and shelters, I'm inclined to believe civilians are targeted. And negligent behavior in the form of firing rockets with no guidance is just as bad as specific intent.

Regarding your first point, I don't think we can really say what provides fodder for anti-Semites. Certainly this conflict is not helping. I also don't think calling every single critic of Israel an anti-Semite helps (not what you are doing, I realize). But, I do feel that I should work harder to either eliminate or shout down posts here that are either clearly or verging on anti-Semitism. I would appreciate any help -- even from those who can't stand me right now -- identifying and reporting such posts. It's possible I won't notice such posts, even in threads I've read (and I don't read all of them) because I sometimes just skim.

As to your second point, neither of us can really say what Hamas is targeting and, as I said, since the rockets are unguided it may not matter. It is criminally negligent to fire rockets that might hit civilians. However, it is beyond negligently criminal to drop bombs on targets when you know you will kill civilians. Hamas is guilty of the first, Israel of the second.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:Jeff (or anyone), do you know why these videos load on my iPhone but not kindle fire? The kindle is just blank. Thanks

I have no idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I believe American Jews need to stand up and demand that Israel stop inflicting this violence. They are complicit by not doing so or by trying to obfuscate or spin that Israel's violence is in any way justified.

American Jews are intelligent to realize that this conflict is between a designated terrorist organization and the state of Israel; it is very sad that Hamas is causing the death of so many of the Palestinian people but that's what terrorist do: kill people to spread terror.

That's the fact, without the spin.

Just look at the targeting: Hamas targets only civilian areas by firing blindly into entire cities. Israel warns Gazans by text, by phone, by leaflet, by warning drop to the roof. It advises Palestinian civilians to temporarily relocate south, but who forces civilians to stand in harms way? Hamas.

Hamas WANTS dead children to further their sick propaganda plot. Again, this is what designated terrorist organizations do.

This just doesn't fly anymore. Have you seen the videos of destruction on Gaza neighborhoods? Do you realize how many days this has gone on for and how many Palestinian civilians are dead? Stop burying your head in the sand and touting this rhetoric. It's gone stale now. The horrors of what Israel is afflicting on Palestinians is beyond this kind of excuse. Credibility has been lost on the international stage. It is just plain unforgivable and unnecessary. Downright inhumane.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I believe American Jews need to stand up and demand that Israel stop inflicting this violence. They are complicit by not doing so or by trying to obfuscate or spin that Israel's violence is in any way justified.

American Jews are intelligent to realize that this conflict is between a designated terrorist organization and the state of Israel; it is very sad that Hamas is causing the death of so many of the Palestinian people but that's what terrorist do: kill people to spread terror.

That's the fact, without the spin.

Just look at the targeting: Hamas targets only civilian areas by firing blindly into entire cities. Israel warns Gazans by text, by phone, by leaflet, by warning drop to the roof. It advises Palestinian civilians to temporarily relocate south, but who forces civilians to stand in harms way? Hamas.

Hamas WANTS dead children to further their sick propaganda plot. Again, this is what designated terrorist organizations do.

+1

[Anonymous]

21:10, you are either a Hamas operative or the biggest idiot on this board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://wodumedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/After-the-Warsaw-Ghetto-Uprising-the-Ghetto-was-completely-destroyed.-Of-the-more-than-56000-Jews-captured-about-7000-were-shot-and-the-remainder-were-deported-to-killing-centers-or-concentration-camps.-This-is-a-view-of-the-650x457.jpg

This is the Warsaw ghetto after the liquidation.
Can Israel let us know what their ultimate plan is?

Hitler would be proud.

Jeff - here you go. Blatant anti-semitism. Commenters can argue all they want that this isn't about Jews, it's about Israelis. But the fact is when the rhetoric gets cranked up, really gets cranked up like it arguably has in this thread, these kinds of comments are inevitable. I'm all for open dialogue - I like to think that I've gotten to the point in my life where I'm not just going to boycott a website because I feel like the moderator has crossed the line - but it's a struggle for me, and one that I'm guessing others have lost. Either way, it's tainted things for me - not sure I'll ever appreciate this site the same way again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I believe American Jews need to stand up and demand that Israel stop inflicting this violence. They are complicit by not doing so or by trying to obfuscate or spin that Israel's violence is in any way justified.

American Jews are intelligent to realize that this conflict is between a designated terrorist organization and the state of Israel; it is very sad that Hamas is causing the death of so many of the Palestinian people but that's what terrorist do: kill people to spread terror.

That's the fact, without the spin.

Just look at the targeting: Hamas targets only civilian areas by firing blindly into entire cities. Israel warns Gazans by text, by phone, by leaflet, by warning drop to the roof. It advises Palestinian civilians to temporarily relocate south, but who forces civilians to stand in harms way? Hamas.

Hamas WANTS dead children to further their sick propaganda plot. Again, this is what designated terrorist organizations do.

Warning doesn't help and doesn't absolve Israel of killing civilians. Where are they supposed to go? It's like Hurricane Katrina and New Orleans. People don't have money. So many are poor and don't have resources to just up and move. They don't always have cars or other transportation. What about potable water? How do you carry food? What about meds? Sick relatives? Kids? They can't just up and leave at the drop of a hat. What about the church that's been warned it's going to be bombed? It's sheltering disabled kids and seniors and they can't move them. The priests and the nuns are staying put.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:21:10, you are either a Hamas operative or the biggest idiot on this board.

Nope - neither. Just a regular person with morals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://wodumedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/After-the-Warsaw-Ghetto-Uprising-the-Ghetto-was-completely-destroyed.-Of-the-more-than-56000-Jews-captured-about-7000-were-shot-and-the-remainder-were-deported-to-killing-centers-or-concentration-camps.-This-is-a-view-of-the-650x457.jpg

This is the Warsaw ghetto after the liquidation.
Can Israel let us know what their ultimate plan is?

Hitler would be proud.

Jeff - here you go. Blatant anti-semitism. Commenters can argue all they want that this isn't about Jews, it's about Israelis. But the fact is when the rhetoric gets cranked up, really gets cranked up like it arguably has in this thread, these kinds of comments are inevitable. I'm all for open dialogue - I like to think that I've gotten to the point in my life where I'm not just going to boycott a website because I feel like the moderator has crossed the line - but it's a struggle for me, and one that I'm guessing others have lost. Either way, it's tainted things for me - not sure I'll ever appreciate this site the same way again.

So the years of outrageous posts about Muslims didn't bother you, but this changes things forever?

[Anonymous]

I just watched the sniper video of the man killed in the green shirt. Shot three times, no blood.

Pallywood rules!

[Anonymous]

I now officially dislike Israel as much as Palestine, Pakistan and most Middle Eastern countries. They have no respect for human life. None.

[Anonymous]

What a chilling video.