Hardy---did they change number of OOB spots available?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:wow, just wow. the level of privilege and IB vs OOB snobbery is just amazing. Those of you considering Hardy from your IB homes should be kissing the feet of your OOB friends who put their children in Hardy and kept it alive and well for your princelings to enter when you felt it was now good enough..or when you could no longer afford GDS, NCS etc…..

I am just so amazed by how ridiculous you all sound.

Nice try, PP, but you're spewing revisionist history. The story I've heard is that former Hardy administrators were hostile toward IB families, failed to recruit at feeder schools, and reserved a large number of spots for OOB kids in the lottery every year. The IB families were discouraged from attending and, as a result, did not enroll their children...what a surprise.

"Revisionist history" is overly kind. It's completely backwards.

Until 1996, Hardy was a nice, small neighborhood middle school, located in a 12-classroom building on Foxhall Road. Amy Carter went there when her dad was president. Then it got moved into the much larger building that it occupies today, the former Gordon Junior High. In 2005 it moved again to Hamilton EC in Northeast. In 2008 it moved back to the old Gordon building. Somewhere along the way the principal was allowed to convert the school into an application-only magnet arts and music program, but on the down-low, the in-boundary folks were never told about it.

It's unfair to ascribe motives, but if you set out to destroy a neighborhood school, those might be the steps you would follow.

This is false. It was not an application-only school. As I understand it, the arts focus (which required filling out an application) was put into place about the same time the lottery was initiated. I don't know if this is accurate but I always assumed it was so the administration did not have to accept a disruptive student who got a lottery spot. Before the lottery, principals had control over which OOB kids were allowed to attend. After the lottery, principals lost that control and my assumption (which granted could be wrong so take it with a grain of salt) was that the application was a way of controlling which OOB kids could attend. IB students always had the right to attend but the impression I got (again, this could be wrong) was that the IB families didn't like the fact that Pope didn't fawn all over them.

The ironic thing was that Pope ran a tight ship which is something the IB families should have appreciated. Rhee removed Pope just after the school moved back to the Wisconsin ave building and expanded. As I understand it, the expansion brought in a lot more new OOB students which was quite a change for the school and the one person you would want to have in charge would have been Patrick Pope. But then Rhee was a short-sighted manager and was unable to grasp that.

Again, this is speculation on my part - but so are half of the statements on this thread. They're just not being labeled as such.

Curious use of words...
"As I understand it"
"I don't know if this is accurate"
"I always assumed"
"my assumption (which granted could be wrong so take it with a grain of salt)"
"the impression I got (again, this could be wrong)"
"As I understand it"
"this is speculation on my part"

Despite these qualifiers, you lead with "This is false." Are you kidding me? I have no idea if any of what you say is correct, but neither do you. Clearly. If you know nothing, admit you know nothing and stay out. Or, failing that, refrain from declarations like "This is false." only to subsequently undermine every aspect of that claim.

[Anonymous]

Some information about how Patrick Pope ran Hardy for your reading pleasure:

http://greatergreaterwashington.org/post/9728/rhee-feared-hardy-principal-was-weeding-out-poor-kids/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:wow, just wow. the level of privilege and IB vs OOB snobbery is just amazing. Those of you considering Hardy from your IB homes should be kissing the feet of your OOB friends who put their children in Hardy and kept it alive and well for your princelings to enter when you felt it was now good enough..or when you could no longer afford GDS, NCS etc…..

I am just so amazed by how ridiculous you all sound.

Nice try, PP, but you're spewing revisionist history. The story I've heard is that former Hardy administrators were hostile toward IB families, failed to recruit at feeder schools, and reserved a large number of spots for OOB kids in the lottery every year. The IB families were discouraged from attending and, as a result, did not enroll their children...what a surprise.

"Revisionist history" is overly kind. It's completely backwards.

Until 1996, Hardy was a nice, small neighborhood middle school, located in a 12-classroom building on Foxhall Road. Amy Carter went there when her dad was president. Then it got moved into the much larger building that it occupies today, the former Gordon Junior High. In 2005 it moved again to Hamilton EC in Northeast. In 2008 it moved back to the old Gordon building. Somewhere along the way the principal was allowed to convert the school into an application-only magnet arts and music program, but on the down-low, the in-boundary folks were never told about it.

It's unfair to ascribe motives, but if you set out to destroy a neighborhood school, those might be the steps you would follow.

This is false. It was not an application-only school. As I understand it, the arts focus (which required filling out an application) was put into place about the same time the lottery was initiated. I don't know if this is accurate but I always assumed it was so the administration did not have to accept a disruptive student who got a lottery spot. Before the lottery, principals had control over which OOB kids were allowed to attend. After the lottery, principals lost that control and my assumption (which granted could be wrong so take it with a grain of salt) was that the application was a way of controlling which OOB kids could attend. IB students always had the right to attend but the impression I got (again, this could be wrong) was that the IB families didn't like the fact that Pope didn't fawn all over them.

The ironic thing was that Pope ran a tight ship which is something the IB families should have appreciated. Rhee removed Pope just after the school moved back to the Wisconsin ave building and expanded. As I understand it, the expansion brought in a lot more new OOB students which was quite a change for the school and the one person you would want to have in charge would have been Patrick Pope. But then Rhee was a short-sighted manager and was unable to grasp that.

Again, this is speculation on my part - but so are half of the statements on this thread. They're just not being labeled as such.

Curious use of words...
"As I understand it"
"I don't know if this is accurate"
"I always assumed"
"my assumption (which granted could be wrong so take it with a grain of salt)"
"the impression I got (again, this could be wrong)"
"As I understand it"
"this is speculation on my part"

Despite these qualifiers, you lead with "This is false." Are you kidding me? I have no idea if any of what you say is correct, but neither do you. Clearly. If you know nothing, admit you know nothing and stay out. Or, failing that, refrain from declarations like "This is false." only to subsequently undermine every aspect of that claim.

I know the "application only" assertion is false. The reasons for instituting it are what I'm speculating about. But as I said, there's a lot of speculation going on in this thread that is being thrown around as the truth. And it's getting pretty ugly.

But hey, my kid was at Hardy around this time. So you can listen to my speculation which is honestly labeled as such or you can listen to people who have no connection to the school (then or now) who say they know the truth but are just passing on gossip they heard from someone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:wow, just wow. the level of privilege and IB vs OOB snobbery is just amazing. Those of you considering Hardy from your IB homes should be kissing the feet of your OOB friends who put their children in Hardy and kept it alive and well for your princelings to enter when you felt it was now good enough..or when you could no longer afford GDS, NCS etc…..

I am just so amazed by how ridiculous you all sound.

Nice try, PP, but you're spewing revisionist history. The story I've heard is that former Hardy administrators were hostile toward IB families, failed to recruit at feeder schools, and reserved a large number of spots for OOB kids in the lottery every year. The IB families were discouraged from attending and, as a result, did not enroll their children...what a surprise.

"Revisionist history" is overly kind. It's completely backwards.

Until 1996, Hardy was a nice, small neighborhood middle school, located in a 12-classroom building on Foxhall Road. Amy Carter went there when her dad was president. Then it got moved into the much larger building that it occupies today, the former Gordon Junior High. In 2005 it moved again to Hamilton EC in Northeast. In 2008 it moved back to the old Gordon building. Somewhere along the way the principal was allowed to convert the school into an application-only magnet arts and music program, but on the down-low, the in-boundary folks were never told about it.

It's unfair to ascribe motives, but if you set out to destroy a neighborhood school, those might be the steps you would follow.

The only dude I trust on this topic is the one who posts about the history of the school. Sometimes links to some article about Burleith, sometimes talking about the move to Hamilton. I trust that person. Not you, not me, not anyone else.

This is false. It was not an application-only school. As I understand it, the arts focus (which required filling out an application) was put into place about the same time the lottery was initiated. I don't know if this is accurate but I always assumed it was so the administration did not have to accept a disruptive student who got a lottery spot. Before the lottery, principals had control over which OOB kids were allowed to attend. After the lottery, principals lost that control and my assumption (which granted could be wrong so take it with a grain of salt) was that the application was a way of controlling which OOB kids could attend. IB students always had the right to attend but the impression I got (again, this could be wrong) was that the IB families didn't like the fact that Pope didn't fawn all over them.

The ironic thing was that Pope ran a tight ship which is something the IB families should have appreciated. Rhee removed Pope just after the school moved back to the Wisconsin ave building and expanded. As I understand it, the expansion brought in a lot more new OOB students which was quite a change for the school and the one person you would want to have in charge would have been Patrick Pope. But then Rhee was a short-sighted manager and was unable to grasp that.

Again, this is speculation on my part - but so are half of the statements on this thread. They're just not being labeled as such.

Curious use of words...
"As I understand it"
"I don't know if this is accurate"
"I always assumed"
"my assumption (which granted could be wrong so take it with a grain of salt)"
"the impression I got (again, this could be wrong)"
"As I understand it"
"this is speculation on my part"

Despite these qualifiers, you lead with "This is false." Are you kidding me? I have no idea if any of what you say is correct, but neither do you. Clearly. If you know nothing, admit you know nothing and stay out. Or, failing that, refrain from declarations like "This is false." only to subsequently undermine every aspect of that claim.

I know the "application only" assertion is false. The reasons for instituting it are what I'm speculating about. But as I said, there's a lot of speculation going on in this thread that is being thrown around as the truth. And it's getting pretty ugly.

But hey, my kid was at Hardy around this time. So you can listen to my speculation which is honestly labeled as such or you can listen to people who have no connection to the school (then or now) who say they know the truth but are just passing on gossip they heard from someone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:wow, just wow. the level of privilege and IB vs OOB snobbery is just amazing. Those of you considering Hardy from your IB homes should be kissing the feet of your OOB friends who put their children in Hardy and kept it alive and well for your princelings to enter when you felt it was now good enough..or when you could no longer afford GDS, NCS etc…..

I am just so amazed by how ridiculous you all sound.

Nice try, PP, but you're spewing revisionist history. The story I've heard is that former Hardy administrators were hostile toward IB families, failed to recruit at feeder schools, and reserved a large number of spots for OOB kids in the lottery every year. The IB families were discouraged from attending and, as a result, did not enroll their children...what a surprise.

"Revisionist history" is overly kind. It's completely backwards.

Until 1996, Hardy was a nice, small neighborhood middle school, located in a 12-classroom building on Foxhall Road. Amy Carter went there when her dad was president. Then it got moved into the much larger building that it occupies today, the former Gordon Junior High. In 2005 it moved again to Hamilton EC in Northeast. In 2008 it moved back to the old Gordon building. Somewhere along the way the principal was allowed to convert the school into an application-only magnet arts and music program, but on the down-low, the in-boundary folks were never told about it.

It's unfair to ascribe motives, but if you set out to destroy a neighborhood school, those might be the steps you would follow.

This is false. It was not an application-only school. As I understand it, the arts focus (which required filling out an application) was put into place about the same time the lottery was initiated. I don't know if this is accurate but I always assumed it was so the administration did not have to accept a disruptive student who got a lottery spot. Before the lottery, principals had control over which OOB kids were allowed to attend. After the lottery, principals lost that control and my assumption (which granted could be wrong so take it with a grain of salt) was that the application was a way of controlling which OOB kids could attend. IB students always had the right to attend but the impression I got (again, this could be wrong) was that the IB families didn't like the fact that Pope didn't fawn all over them.

The ironic thing was that Pope ran a tight ship which is something the IB families should have appreciated. Rhee removed Pope just after the school moved back to the Wisconsin ave building and expanded. As I understand it, the expansion brought in a lot more new OOB students which was quite a change for the school and the one person you would want to have in charge would have been Patrick Pope. But then Rhee was a short-sighted manager and was unable to grasp that.

Again, this is speculation on my part - but so are half of the statements on this thread. They're just not being labeled as such.

Curious use of words...
"As I understand it"
"I don't know if this is accurate"
"I always assumed"
"my assumption (which granted could be wrong so take it with a grain of salt)"
"the impression I got (again, this could be wrong)"
"As I understand it"
"this is speculation on my part"

Despite these qualifiers, you lead with "This is false." Are you kidding me? I have no idea if any of what you say is correct, but neither do you. Clearly. If you know nothing, admit you know nothing and stay out. Or, failing that, refrain from declarations like "This is false." only to subsequently undermine every aspect of that claim.

I know the "application only" assertion is false. The reasons for instituting it are what I'm speculating about. But as I said, there's a lot of speculation going on in this thread that is being thrown around as the truth. And it's getting pretty ugly.

But hey, my kid was at Hardy around this time. So you can listen to my speculation which is honestly labeled as such or you can listen to people who have no connection to the school (then or now) who say they know the truth but are just passing on gossip they heard from someone else.

The only dude I trust on this topic is the one who posts about the history of the school. Sometimes links to some article about Burleith, sometimes talking about the move to Hamilton. I trust that person. Not you, not me, not anyone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some information about how Patrick Pope ran Hardy for your reading pleasure:

http://greatergreaterwashington.org/post/9728/rhee-feared-hardy-principal-was-weeding-out-poor-kids/

Oh yes, we discussed this on DCUM when it came out. http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/156849.page#1429067

That study is deeply flawed, which I pointed out in the thread. And I'm not speculating about that. As a social scientist I happen to know about research design and it was a genuinely pathetic attempt to smear Patrick Pope with pseudo research conducted by someone who didn't know what he was doing.

And so typical of Rhee and some of her supporters. They purport to care about rigorous performance at the same time they themselves perform poorly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I know the "application only" assertion is false. The reasons for instituting it are what I'm speculating about. But as I said, there's a lot of speculation going on in this thread that is being thrown around as the truth. And it's getting pretty ugly.

In December 2010 I walked into the office at Hardy and told the staff I was interested in applying to have my child attend starting September 2011. They told me I had to fill out an application. I told them I was in-boundary. They told me it didn't matter, everyone had to fill out an application.

It was an application-only school.

Anonymous wrote:
But hey, my kid was at Hardy around this time. So you can listen to my speculation which is honestly labeled as such or you can listen to people who have no connection to the school (then or now) who say they know the truth but are just passing on gossip they heard from someone else.

I disagree. The reason that there is such disagreement about the basic facts about how Hardy was being run 3+ years ago is that the way it was run was cloaked in secrecy. You were told different things at different times. As the Ken Archer story explains, Pope was clearly violating DCPS's rules for student placements. He was trying to do it quietly, and he took pains to conceal what he was doing.

Ken Archer has a comment at 10:35am that says: "Pope's supporters aren't just calling for his reinstatement, they are calling for the reinstatement of this unjust admissions process. Rhee announced the end of this admissions process the same night she announced Pope's reassignment (I was there)." I was there too and both points are exactly true.

[Anonymous]

Being required to fill out an application doesn't mean the child won't get in. It just means filling out a form.

Oh I forgot to add that the reason why I know Hardy was not an application-only magnet school is because I attended the meeting at which Rhee announced that Pope would be leaving. The majority of the Hardy parents insisted that Hardy was an application-only magnet school but I knew that to be wrong. And, sure enough, Michelle Rhee told them that Hard was NOT an application-only magnet school which confirmed what I already knew.

Okay, you don't want to believe Michelle Rhee? Then go on with the story in your head. No one will convince you of anything different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Being required to fill out an application doesn't mean the child won't get in. It just means filling out a form.

Oh I forgot to add that the reason why I know Hardy was not an application-only magnet school is because I attended the meeting at which Rhee announced that Pope would be leaving. The majority of the Hardy parents insisted that Hardy was an application-only magnet school but I knew that to be wrong. And, sure enough, Michelle Rhee told them that Hard was NOT an application-only magnet school which confirmed what I already knew.

Okay, you don't want to believe Michelle Rhee? Then go on with the story in your head. No one will convince you of anything different.

But see Pope did insist that OOB parents do and application and an interview on his own initiative. It was what kept out a lot of marginal students. It was an issue that he had created his own process.

[Anonymous]

My kid was at Hardy when Pope was there. We did indeed fill out an application and we were IB. Since the program then was an arts intensive, questions on the application asked if you would fully participate in the program, practice, etc. You also had to choose an instrument. No IB family was ever denied enrollment. People just didn't want to fill out the application. His goal was increase academic performance through the arts.

Many OOB families were AA. I had no knowledge of their economic status. To say Pope designed the application process to weed out poor blacks is ludicrous. Pope is now at Savoy ES in Anacostia and is transforming the school through the arts. https://www.naesp.org/principal-septemberoctober-2012-common-core/turning-around-schools-art.

It was my experience that Pope welcomed IB families, he just didn't cater to them. Where are all the IB families now that Pope is gone and there is no inconvenient one page application to fill out?

[Anonymous]

That application took on weird privilege issues for a lot of parents. At one level it made sense to me because it was telling parents there is a commitment here and we care, but for those that were IB it was like their entitlement was being questioned. I also understand Pope just did not give a damn about well off parents, his attitude just made people crazy. I know there are a lot of opinions both ways, but it was a Rorschach test for class and privilege in this city.

I hope he succeeds at Savoy, it would be a great model if he does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That application took on weird privilege issues for a lot of parents. At one level it made sense to me because it was telling parents there is a commitment here and we care, but for those that were IB it was like their entitlement was being questioned. I also understand Pope just did not give a damn about well off parents, his attitude just made people crazy. I know there are a lot of opinions both ways, but it was a Rorschach test for class and privilege in this city.

I hope he succeeds at Savoy, it would be a great model if he does.

Very well put.

I will say that the notion that somehow smart Ward 2/3 parents did not know that they were entitled to go to Hardy - application or no application - is absurd.

As an IB parent, I thought the application was a good thing - it ensured that incoming students and families knew what was expected of them.

[Anonymous]

Some information about how Patrick Pope ran Hardy for your reading pleasure:

http://greatergreaterwashington.org/post/9728/rhee...pal-was-weeding-out-poor-kids/
Oh yes, we discussed this on DCUM when it came out. http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/156849.page#1429067

That study is deeply flawed, which I pointed out in the thread. And I'm not speculating about that. As a social scientist I happen to know about research design and it was a genuinely pathetic attempt to smear Patrick Pope with pseudo research conducted by someone who didn't know what he was doing.

And so typical of Rhee and some of her supporters. They purport to care about rigorous performance at the same time they themselves perform poorly.

Very true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
The only dude I trust on this topic is the one who posts about the history of the school. Sometimes links to some article about Burleith, sometimes talking about the move to Hamilton. I trust that person. Not you, not me, not anyone else.

Thank you. I think I'm the dude you're talking about. And yes, I'm a a dude. Glad to hear someone appreciates my posts.

[Anonymous]

All of this yowling about Hardy's history is somewhat irrelevant. The bottom line is that the Hardy train is pulling out of the station: with pride and renewed IB interest, Hardy will be the DCPS flagship middle school. It will have the administrative and demographic advantages of Deal without the crowding/large size!