Lottery for all middle and high schools -- what are people really proposing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What about building a new middle school? I remember that was brought up by Mary Cheh at some point a while back. Any mention of that in the focus groups, or other meetings? Or turning Duke Ellington back to Western. Seems like better option to overcrowding, Would have to pull kids from successful school and put them into failing ones in unsafe neighborhoods.

Talk about Ellington getting moved always appears on these threads. The school is being completely remodeled, starting next year so that building is off the table.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
According to Catania's website only 15% of the households in Ward 3 have school-age children. There are enough housing units in Ward 3 to house the entire DCPS population if every family wanted to and could afford to live there.

Only if every family wanted to live in a 1-bedroom apartment

Omfg. Think. Even if it was accurate that 85% of households in ward 3 don't have kids aged 4-18, which I don't believe for a minute, it doesn't follow that those childless homeowners all put their homes on the market. There are only "enough housing units" for all of dcps families when they're actually available.

To demonstrate: my next door and across the street neighbors in CCDC have children who are ages 19-24. Their homes are not for sale for anyone in dcps or anyone, period, for another 20 years.

[Anonymous]

Yes to test-in at all grade levels.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous]Yes to test-in at all grade levels.[/quote]

Okay, but how exactly would that work? And I assume that you really don't mean all grade levels. You'd want test-in PS3?

[Anonymous]

OP - I think yours is a good question. What is the upside to a lottery other than making the people for whom the system is currently working feel as uncertain as everyone else and perhaps lowering the quality of education at the few successful programs you have.

I cannot see the upside but would like to hear what someone thinks it is.

[Anonymous]

How about no lottery?
You live where you live and your kids can go to school in your neighborhood-end of story. Maybe some specialized schools to test into, especially for MS and high school.
Just like everywhere else in America.
I don't think that MCPS has any lottery. If you live in Rockville, you can go to the schools in Rockville, not lottery into Potomac. MCPS is one big system but they don't move regular ed. kids all over the place to fill seats.
For generations, people all over America have been buying houses in towns and neighborhoods where they like the schools-it has always been part real estate decisions for people with kids.

[Anonymous]

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How about no lottery?
You live where you live and your kids can go to school in your neighborhood-end of story. Maybe some specialized schools to test into, especially for MS and high school.
Just like everywhere else in America.
I don't think that MCPS has any lottery. If you live in Rockville, you can go to the schools in Rockville, not lottery into Potomac. MCPS is one big system but they don't move regular ed. kids all over the place to fill seats.
For generations, people all over America have been buying houses in towns and neighborhoods where they like the schools-it has always been part real estate decisions for people with kids.

How about no boundaries? Have good schools in all parts of the city. Since they're all good, people will go to the closest one. If a school gets too crowded, build another one nearby.

It's two sides of the same coin.

The problem isn't boundaries or lotteries, it's scarcity. If every neighborhood had a good neighborhood school, no one would care about boundaries and we wouldn't have a lottery. The problem is that instead of focusing on eliminating the scarcity, our political leaders have focused on rationing it. The rationing guarantees that the scarcity will never be addressed, and only makes it worse. Instead of building better lotteries our leaders should be asking why we need a lottery at all. The most breathtakingly cynical move was in 2009, when Michelle Rhee guaranteed feeder rights through high school for all OOB kids. That led directly to the mess we're in today, and guarantees that mess can't be fixed for a generation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How about no lottery?
You live where you live and your kids can go to school in your neighborhood-end of story. Maybe some specialized schools to test into, especially for MS and high school.
Just like everywhere else in America.
I don't think that MCPS has any lottery. If you live in Rockville, you can go to the schools in Rockville, not lottery into Potomac. MCPS is one big system but they don't move regular ed. kids all over the place to fill seats.
For generations, people all over America have been buying houses in towns and neighborhoods where they like the schools-it has always been part real estate decisions for people with kids.

Except, if the school where you live happens to suck, you have a problem. If you have extraordinary bandwidth, free time, energy, and knowledge (which most people don't) you can get involved in the neighborhood school and try to get it to change. And maybe, if you're lucky, the school might change - by the time your kids leave. Or, if you can afford it, you could move elsewhere, to a place that does have decent neighborhood schools. In which case, you might end up with a horrendous commute and far less time to spend with your kids as a parent. Et cetera. Sorry but for most of us who don't have a $500k HHI our options are far more limited.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How about no lottery?
You live where you live and your kids can go to school in your neighborhood-end of story. Maybe some specialized schools to test into, especially for MS and high school.
Just like everywhere else in America.
I don't think that MCPS has any lottery. If you live in Rockville, you can go to the schools in Rockville, not lottery into Potomac. MCPS is one big system but they don't move regular ed. kids all over the place to fill seats.
For generations, people all over America have been buying houses in towns and neighborhoods where they like the schools-it has always been part real estate decisions for people with kids.

Except, if the school where you live happens to suck, you have a problem. If you have extraordinary bandwidth, free time, energy, and knowledge (which most people don't) you can get involved in the neighborhood school and try to get it to change. And maybe, if you're lucky, the school might change - by the time your kids leave. Or, if you can afford it, you could move elsewhere, to a place that does have decent neighborhood schools. In which case, you might end up with a horrendous commute and far less time to spend with your kids as a parent. Et cetera. Sorry but for most of us who don't have a $500k HHI our options are far more limited.

These are the choices people make all over this country. These are the choices people that currently live in fairfax county have already made. Also, the idea you need a 500k annual income to live in a good school district in DC is preposterous. Maybe for a really nice large house, but that is not what most who live in upper NW at least have. I support good schools for all, but info in school quality was widely available when everyone on DCUM bought their homes.

[Anonymous]

12:26 what is your actual suggestion? That an entire city must lottery and that entire city must then all commute, crossing paths, to get to school? How us that "easier"?

As to OP point, what would that look like and how could it be done?

[Anonymous]

12:26 here... I DO have an actual suggestion: The bottom line is that the schools need to improve, DCPS needs to recognize that many people perceive deep problems, that, as a result, people are avoiding many of the DCPS schools like the plague to instead move away (if they can), or send their kids to privates (if they can afford it), shlep their kids across town to charters, shlep their kids across town as OOB, et cetera. That is the stark reality that DCPS needs to deal with. City-wide lottery is just dealing with the symptoms, not the root cause.

NOBODY should be forced to have to go through all of that. NOBODY should be forced to move or shlep their kids across town to get access to a decent school.

This BS about just treating symptoms, denying there's a problem, paying it lip service, and deflecting of blame to everything else isn't going to solve anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What about building a new middle school? I remember that was brought up by Mary Cheh at some point a while back. Any mention of that in the focus groups, or other meetings? Or turning Duke Ellington back to Western. Seems like better option to overcrowding, Would have to pull kids from successful school and put them into failing ones in unsafe neighborhoods.

The problem is not lack of space system wide. There is plenty of extra capacity The problem is that there is a finite number of students who are academically proficient and advanced and these kids are, mostly, located at one DCPS location because they happen to live near the school. So naturally, every parent across the city wants their kid to be part of this peer group, despite the obvious space limitations and daily commute burden. DCPS needs to have some tough love with all the central city high SES parents and tell them they need to stay home and improve their neighborhood MS. There are enough new residents to tip these schools in the right direction. Time to Stand and Deliver.

Uh. No. Tough love by DCPS about forcing families to improve middle schools will do NOTHING but speed the demise of DCPS. DCPS needs to attract those parents somehow. Even if it is politically unpalatable. It is up to DCPS if they would like to watch the middle and high schools whither away or if they want to do what it takes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How about no lottery?
You live where you live and your kids can go to school in your neighborhood-end of story. Maybe some specialized schools to test into, especially for MS and high school.
Just like everywhere else in America.
I don't think that MCPS has any lottery. If you live in Rockville, you can go to the schools in Rockville, not lottery into Potomac. MCPS is one big system but they don't move regular ed. kids all over the place to fill seats.
For generations, people all over America have been buying houses in towns and neighborhoods where they like the schools-it has always been part real estate decisions for people with kids.

If that was done in DC the city would be a ghost town

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:12:26 here... I DO have an actual suggestion: The bottom line is that the schools need to improve, DCPS needs to recognize that many people perceive deep problems, that, as a result, people are avoiding many of the DCPS schools like the plague to instead move away (if they can), or send their kids to privates (if they can afford it), shlep their kids across town to charters, shlep their kids across town as OOB, et cetera. That is the stark reality that DCPS needs to deal with. City-wide lottery is just dealing with the symptoms, not the root cause.

NOBODY should be forced to have to go through all of that. NOBODY should be forced to move or shlep their kids across town to get access to a decent school.

This BS about just treating symptoms, denying there's a problem, paying it lip service, and deflecting of blame to everything else isn't going to solve anything.

You are stubbornly blind to the truth. The problem in parts of the city other than where you live is multi-generational poverty and lots of societal dysfunction. What does improve the school mean in cases of concentrated poverty? And if the school was improved in order to serve kids poor backgrounds well it still might not be a good fit for those in the neighborhood who dont need this kind of specialized Programming. You are entirely disregarding the fact that most families who lottery to OOB schools are not avoiding their neighborhood school, but they are avoiding the difficulties and environment created by the families in those schools. Simply improving schools citywide as you suggest does nothing to address the real motivations here