Lottery for all middle and high schools -- what are people really proposing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I went to a focus group this week and what I found curious were the parents who bought in Shaw, Columbia Heights, etc. that somehow want access to Deal. I mean, what were you thinking when you bought there? You buy a house for a steal seven years ago, get a 100% return on your investment and NOW you want access to the best MS in the city accross town because you say "everyone deserves access to high quality education and my taxes are as good as yours." Sorry friend, your luck has run out and you are going to have to live with the consequences of your location choice.

So explain to me what any individual resident has done that makes them more entitled than any other resident to a high quality, free public education for their children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to a focus group this week and what I found curious were the parents who bought in Shaw, Columbia Heights, etc. that somehow want access to Deal. I mean, what were you thinking when you bought there? You buy a house for a steal seven years ago, get a 100% return on your investment and NOW you want access to the best MS in the city accross town because you say "everyone deserves access to high quality education and my taxes are as good as yours." Sorry friend, your luck has run out and you are going to have to live with the consequences of your location choice.

So explain to me what any individual resident has done that makes them more entitled than any other resident to a high quality, free public education for their children.

Well, explain to me how you exactly propose to accomplish this task. With an ever more complicated patchwork of charters and lotteries? What is your real world suggestion?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to a focus group this week and what I found curious were the parents who bought in Shaw, Columbia Heights, etc. that somehow want access to Deal. I mean, what were you thinking when you bought there? You buy a house for a steal seven years ago, get a 100% return on your investment and NOW you want access to the best MS in the city accross town because you say "everyone deserves access to high quality education and my taxes are as good as yours." Sorry friend, your luck has run out and you are going to have to live with the consequences of your location choice.

So explain to me what any individual resident has done that makes them more entitled than any other resident to a high quality, free public education for their children.

Um, maybe they looked at the school boundary map before they bought a house in a particular location? I mean, the urban pioneers made a conscious decision for square footage over school quality. You could have bought or rented a perfectly nice condo on Connecticut Avenue, but instead you wanted a house. That is fine. I am not judging. But you have to own that decision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to a focus group this week and what I found curious were the parents who bought in Shaw, Columbia Heights, etc. that somehow want access to Deal. I mean, what were you thinking when you bought there? You buy a house for a steal seven years ago, get a 100% return on your investment and NOW you want access to the best MS in the city accross town because you say "everyone deserves access to high quality education and my taxes are as good as yours." Sorry friend, your luck has run out and you are going to have to live with the consequences of your location choice.

So explain to me what any individual resident has done that makes them more entitled than any other resident to a high quality, free public education for their children.

Um, maybe they looked at the school boundary map before they bought a house in a particular location? I mean, the urban pioneers made a conscious decision for square footage over school quality. You could have bought or rented a perfectly nice condo on Connecticut Avenue, but instead you wanted a house. That is fine. I am not judging. But you have to own that decision.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to a focus group this week and what I found curious were the parents who bought in Shaw, Columbia Heights, etc. that somehow want access to Deal. I mean, what were you thinking when you bought there? You buy a house for a steal seven years ago, get a 100% return on your investment and NOW you want access to the best MS in the city accross town because you say "everyone deserves access to high quality education and my taxes are as good as yours." Sorry friend, your luck has run out and you are going to have to live with the consequences of your location choice.

So explain to me what any individual resident has done that makes them more entitled than any other resident to a high quality, free public education for their children.

Um, maybe they looked at the school boundary map before they bought a house in a particular location? I mean, the urban pioneers made a conscious decision for square footage over school quality. You could have bought or rented a perfectly nice condo on Connecticut Avenue, but instead you wanted a house. That is fine. I am not judging. But you have to own that decision.

In the hypothetical, the decision was made seven years ago. Seven years ago anyone who wanted to go to Deal could go there, it wasn't nearly as well-regarded as it is today. Many of the kids who are at Deal today are there not because of anything particularly virtuous that they did, but because their families got lucky with the timing, buying when it was affordable and having the school improve just in time for them.

There are basically three ways to get into a desirable public school in DC:
1. Move in-boundary for a desirable school and pay the price.
2. Move in-boundary for a school with the potential to improve and hope you get lucky with the timing.
3. Get lucky with the lottery.

When you have a system where some people are getting slots because they're paying for them, and others getting them through luck, it's legitimate to question the fairness.

For what it's worth, I'm in category 1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to a focus group this week and what I found curious were the parents who bought in Shaw, Columbia Heights, etc. that somehow want access to Deal. I mean, what were you thinking when you bought there? You buy a house for a steal seven years ago, get a 100% return on your investment and NOW you want access to the best MS in the city accross town because you say "everyone deserves access to high quality education and my taxes are as good as yours." Sorry friend, your luck has run out and you are going to have to live with the consequences of your location choice.

So explain to me what any individual resident has done that makes them more entitled than any other resident to a high quality, free public education for their children.

Um, maybe they looked at the school boundary map before they bought a house in a particular location? I mean, the urban pioneers made a conscious decision for square footage over school quality. You could have bought or rented a perfectly nice condo on Connecticut Avenue, but instead you wanted a house. That is fine. I am not judging. But you have to own that decision.

+1

+2

[Anonymous]

An argument can be made that Deal and Wilson are a relative success in DCPS and shouldn't be messed with. However, looking more broadly at secondary schools in DC, middle schools and high schools are generally struggling to produce proficient test takers. One can tinker around the edges with boundaries and feeder patterns, but it also seems worthwhile to consider broader changes in school organization. I don't think most parents are capable of separating their own interests from those of the broader system, which is a flaw in the focus group approach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to a focus group this week and what I found curious were the parents who bought in Shaw, Columbia Heights, etc. that somehow want access to Deal. I mean, what were you thinking when you bought there? You buy a house for a steal seven years ago, get a 100% return on your investment and NOW you want access to the best MS in the city accross town because you say "everyone deserves access to high quality education and my taxes are as good as yours." Sorry friend, your luck has run out and you are going to have to live with the consequences of your location choice.

So explain to me what any individual resident has done that makes them more entitled than any other resident to a high quality, free public education for their children.

Um, maybe they looked at the school boundary map before they bought a house in a particular location? I mean, the urban pioneers made a conscious decision for square footage over school quality. You could have bought or rented a perfectly nice condo on Connecticut Avenue, but instead you wanted a house. That is fine. I am not judging. But you have to own that decision.

+1

+2

All of the people I know that bought EOTP didn't do it to get a bigger house, they just like the hipster bragging rights about not living in "Caucasia," and yet of course they now think they should get to send their kids to Caucasia for school. Most of them spent more on their house in Columbia Heights than I did in Van Ness.

[Anonymous]

Oh please. Most of the hipster types are decidedly not going to you exclusive WotP school. They are going charter. I grow tired of people turning this boundary process into some sort of bitchfest about OOB families who earned their spots legitimately through a lottery system that was and is in place. In that process those families were clearly told that their children had the right at attend that school and continue in the feeder path for that school. And let's not conveniently forget that those OOB students won their spots NOT because a school or school community is particularly generous or kind but because those schools and their principals wanted to maximize their budgets and fill every open enrollment seat. Period. Plus, let's see the data. OOB students at WotP schools continues to decrease year after year so it will taper off as this generation matriculates. Pointing to OOB is a desperate attempt to deflect attention from the real issue--boundaries that need to be rewritten because schools like Janney simply have more real estate in it's boundaries than can be accommodated. I predict that the boundary advisory board could essentially sunset the OOB process, though allowing current OOB students to continue to matriculate via the path they were promised. The tricky part is getting the EotP schools to look attractive enough to make upper SES want to attend rather than run to the charters.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous]Oh please. Most of the hipster types are decidedly not going to you exclusive WotP school. They are going charter. I grow tired of people turning this boundary process into some sort of bitchfest about OOB families who earned their spots legitimately through a lottery system that was and is in place. In that process those families were clearly told that their children had the right at attend that school and continue in the feeder path for that school. And let's not conveniently forget that those OOB students won their spots NOT because a school or school community is particularly generous or kind but because those schools and their principals wanted to maximize their budgets and fill every open enrollment seat. Period. Plus, let's see the data. OOB students at WotP schools continues to decrease year after year so it will taper off as this generation matriculates. Pointing to OOB is a desperate attempt to deflect attention from the real issue--boundaries that need to be rewritten because schools like Janney simply have more real estate in it's boundaries than can be accommodated. I predict that the boundary advisory board could essentially sunset the OOB process, though allowing current OOB students to continue to matriculate via the path they were promised. The tricky part is getting the EotP schools to look attractive enough to make upper SES want to attend rather than run to the charters. [/quote]

Isn't the "tricky" part the whole problem? This isn't about hipsters or anyone being greedy or selfish regardless of which "side of the park" you live on. For there to be long term real improvement in neighborhood schools, people have to want to go to them. Everywhere else he same issue exists, just not as stark. People who live in MD or VA also look at school boundaries when buying property, this is not an exclusively DC phenomenon.

[Anonymous]

The tricky part (making EotP schools look attractive) is not necessarily a necessity. I doubt this would happen (and I hope it wouldn't) but DCPS could decide to basically waive the white flag and send the message that families EotP should look to charters. Considering Kaya Henderson's recent comment about middle school I wouldn't say it's impossible. Gratefully I think the advisory board that is part of the boundary process has some really smart people on it who have a lot of historical knowledge and will make recommendations that are good for the city. And I meant to mention earlier when I talked about decreasing OOB numbers WotP that a couple schools are exceptions--Hearst and Eaton continue to be majority OOB, but the schools themselves have helped perpetuate that. For instance, rather than open a PS3 class at Hearst this year and serve current Hearst families (whether IB or OOB) they kept two PKs that was filled with practically all OOB kids, mostly new to the school. Now those new OOB kids are there for 6 years and understandably hope and expect to go to Deal and Wilson. DCPS created that situation and I certainly don't fault EotP families who are looking for the very best education for their children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to a focus group this week and what I found curious were the parents who bought in Shaw, Columbia Heights, etc. that somehow want access to Deal. I mean, what were you thinking when you bought there? You buy a house for a steal seven years ago, get a 100% return on your investment and NOW you want access to the best MS in the city accross town because you say "everyone deserves access to high quality education and my taxes are as good as yours." Sorry friend, your luck has run out and you are going to have to live with the consequences of your location choice.

So explain to me what any individual resident has done that makes them more entitled than any other resident to a high quality, free public education for their children.

Um, maybe they looked at the school boundary map before they bought a house in a particular location? I mean, the urban pioneers made a conscious decision for square footage over school quality. You could have bought or rented a perfectly nice condo on Connecticut Avenue, but instead you wanted a house. That is fine. I am not judging. But you have to own that decision.

+1

+2

All of the people I know that bought EOTP didn't do it to get a bigger house, they just like the hipster bragging rights about not living in "Caucasia," and yet of course they now think they should get to send their kids to Caucasia for school. Most of them spent more on their house in Columbia Heights than I did in Van Ness.

+3
Seriously, enjoy Powell and JO Wilson and Noyes, OR, try your hand for Creative Minds' 2 open slots.

You wanted fixie lanes in front of your rowhouse and artisnal heritage pig handcrafted salume within 2 blocks. It's yours, right along with the school situation that goes hand in hand with being the neighbor of a bar full of ironic beards.

Also, if ALL of your ironic beard, small plates-eating kids concentrated to the SAME middle school, instead of 17 middle schools, you could approach Deal's outcomes and day to day experience.

[Anonymous]

PP you have some serious issues. If you're jealous of the lifestyle of others then make some changes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I grow tired of people turning this boundary process into some sort of bitchfest about OOB families who earned their spots legitimately through a lottery system that was and is in place.

It's a strange turn of phrase to use the words "earn" and "lottery" in the same sentence. It's kind of like referring to your trust fund as your "savings." Usually the verb associated with lotteries is "win."

Anonymous wrote:In that process those families were clearly told that their children had the right at attend that school and continue in the feeder path for that school.

Not necessarily true. The current feeder right only dates from 2009. Kids who are in sixth grade this year would have been in the pre-k lottery in spring 2006.

Anonymous wrote:And let's not conveniently forget that those OOB students won their spots NOT because a school or school community is particularly generous or kind but because those schools and their principals wanted to maximize their budgets and fill every open enrollment seat. Period.

So what's your point?

Anonymous wrote:
Pointing to OOB is a desperate attempt to deflect attention from the real issue--boundaries that need to be rewritten because schools like Janney simply have more real estate in it's boundaries than can be accommodated.

The real issue is that there are more kids who have the right to attend certain schools than those schools can accommodate. Either somebody needs to lose that right, or the crowding continues and gets worse. Who loses that right? The answer is obvious to everyone involved: Not me!

Which brings us back to 21:27 upthread: what has any individual resident done that makes them more entitled than any other resident to a high quality, free public education for their children.

[Anonymous]

I have maintained ALL of my paperwork from the year my child won her lottery spot at a WOTP school in 2010-2011 and I have several references to official DCPS language that states my child will not need to leave her school and is entitled to follow that school's feeder patterns. So talk what you will of pre-2009, my experience is based on a social contract established when my child started PreK.