Oyster vs. Ross

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The social-engineering is about constantly moving the goal posts to make the Spanish-dominant side of things continue to be low-income immigrant Spanish-speaking families. The reality of Hispanic America today includes families who speak English enough to succeed in the American workplace without giving up culture and language.

What precludes more affluent Hispanics from gaining admission to Oyster from the SD side of the lottery? If a bilingual education is so important to these families, they can enroll their children in bilingual preschools (like everyone else), AND speak Spanish to their children at home for the extra advantage. With that combination, I have no doubt that their children will easily score higher on the Spanish test. However, affluent Spanish speaking families are NOT more entitled to those OOB Spanish dominant seats than a poor immigrant family that speaks Spanish...and not much else. If those affluent Hispanics want to guarantee a spot at Oyster, they need to move IB like the rest us English Dom. Families.

Well how can you know that your kid is going to respond better in English or Spanish on a given test day if they are bilingual? These are FOUR YEAR-OLDS. It biases the test in favor of kids who speak basically no English.

Then move IB and guarantee your child's spot!

A good reason to make the school boundary-less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The social-engineering is about constantly moving the goal posts to make the Spanish-dominant side of things continue to be low-income immigrant Spanish-speaking families. The reality of Hispanic America today includes families who speak English enough to succeed in the American workplace without giving up culture and language.

What precludes more affluent Hispanics from gaining admission to Oyster from the SD side of the lottery? If a bilingual education is so important to these families, they can enroll their children in bilingual preschools (like everyone else), AND speak Spanish to their children at home for the extra advantage. With that combination, I have no doubt that their children will easily score higher on the Spanish test. However, affluent Spanish speaking families are NOT more entitled to those OOB Spanish dominant seats than a poor immigrant family that speaks Spanish...and not much else. If those affluent Hispanics want to guarantee a spot at Oyster, they need to move IB like the rest us English Dom. Families.

BS. BTW- poor immigrant kids raised here are English dom. The fake Span. Dom. Designation is a effort to distinguish discrimination, which is against the law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The social-engineering is about constantly moving the goal posts to make the Spanish-dominant side of things continue to be low-income immigrant Spanish-speaking families. The reality of Hispanic America today includes families who speak English enough to succeed in the American workplace without giving up culture and language.

What precludes more affluent Hispanics from gaining admission to Oyster from the SD side of the lottery? If a bilingual education is so important to these families, they can enroll their children in bilingual preschools (like everyone else), AND speak Spanish to their children at home for the extra advantage. With that combination, I have no doubt that their children will easily score higher on the Spanish test. However, affluent Spanish speaking families are NOT more entitled to those OOB Spanish dominant seats than a poor immigrant family that speaks Spanish...and not much else. If those affluent Hispanics want to guarantee a spot at Oyster, they need to move IB like the rest us English Dom. Families.

BS. BTW- poor immigrant kids raised here are English dom. The fake Span. Dom. Designation is a effort to distinguish discrimination, which is against the law.

What?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The social-engineering is about constantly moving the goal posts to make the Spanish-dominant side of things continue to be low-income immigrant Spanish-speaking families. The reality of Hispanic America today includes families who speak English enough to succeed in the American workplace without giving up culture and language.

What precludes more affluent Hispanics from gaining admission to Oyster from the SD side of the lottery? If a bilingual education is so important to these families, they can enroll their children in bilingual preschools (like everyone else), AND speak Spanish to their children at home for the extra advantage. With that combination, I have no doubt that their children will easily score higher on the Spanish test. However, affluent Spanish speaking families are NOT more entitled to those OOB Spanish dominant seats than a poor immigrant family that speaks Spanish...and not much else. If those affluent Hispanics want to guarantee a spot at Oyster, they need to move IB like the rest us English Dom. Families.

Well how can you know that your kid is going to respond better in English or Spanish on a given test day if they are bilingual? These are FOUR YEAR-OLDS. It biases the test in favor of kids who speak basically no English.

Then move IB and guarantee your child's spot!

A good reason to make the school boundary-less.

Yeah, too bad that won't happen. Just wishful thinking on the part of bitter DCUMers who have been shut out of Oyster.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The social-engineering is about constantly moving the goal posts to make the Spanish-dominant side of things continue to be low-income immigrant Spanish-speaking families. The reality of Hispanic America today includes families who speak English enough to succeed in the American workplace without giving up culture and language.

What precludes more affluent Hispanics from gaining admission to Oyster from the SD side of the lottery? If a bilingual education is so important to these families, they can enroll their children in bilingual preschools (like everyone else), AND speak Spanish to their children at home for the extra advantage. With that combination, I have no doubt that their children will easily score higher on the Spanish test. However, affluent Spanish speaking families are NOT more entitled to those OOB Spanish dominant seats than a poor immigrant family that speaks Spanish...and not much else. If those affluent Hispanics want to guarantee a spot at Oyster, they need to move IB like the rest us English Dom. Families.

BS. BTW- poor immigrant kids raised here are English dom. The fake Span. Dom. Designation is a effort to distinguish discrimination, which is against the law.[/quot

Poor immigrant kids who have stayed at home with their mothers or other relatives, and heard nothing but Spanish their entire lives are "fake Spanish dominant"?!? Well, that's news to me..and those Spanish dominant kids as well. Stop being so hateful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The social-engineering is about constantly moving the goal posts to make the Spanish-dominant side of things continue to be low-income immigrant Spanish-speaking families. The reality of Hispanic America today includes families who speak English enough to succeed in the American workplace without giving up culture and language.

What precludes more affluent Hispanics from gaining admission to Oyster from the SD side of the lottery? If a bilingual education is so important to these families, they can enroll their children in bilingual preschools (like everyone else), AND speak Spanish to their children at home for the extra advantage. With that combination, I have no doubt that their children will easily score higher on the Spanish test. However, affluent Spanish speaking families are NOT more entitled to those OOB Spanish dominant seats than a poor immigrant family that speaks Spanish...and not much else. If those affluent Hispanics want to guarantee a spot at Oyster, they need to move IB like the rest us English Dom. Families.

Well how can you know that your kid is going to respond better in English or Spanish on a given test day if they are bilingual? These are FOUR YEAR-OLDS. It biases the test in favor of kids who speak basically no English.

Then move IB and guarantee your child's spot!

A good reason to make the school boundary-less.

You sound as if Oyster is the only dual immersion school in DC. If you can't afford to move IB, then try your luck at Bancroft, Marie Reed or at the DI charters. Stop being jealous of those of us who are able to move IB for Oyster. Some people will always be able to have things that are difficult for you to obtain--that's life so get over it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's so goofy. They won't consider someone who also speaks English a Spanish speaker? Why don't they just do what they really want to do and ask whether the parents speak English well (and to my skeptical thinking, is low-income)? My kid was always verbal and is the best Spanish speaker in a dual language school at PS3 but also speaks good English for a 3 year old.

And what is the point of a bilingual school that cheers bilingualism at age 5 but won't accept it at age 4?

What are you talking about?!? This rant makes absolutely no sense.

The Oyster "Spanish-dominant" lottery should be about identifying kids with the ability to speak Spanish and it seems like they're tweaking it to not allow kids who also speak English to use that as the lottery of their choice, because it works. And I know I am being cynical but I am afraid they are doing it for social engineering purposes rather than simply identifying language abilities, as they are happy to have bilingual children after entry.

No, the real problem is that, in the past, savvy parents have successfully gamed the system. These parents don't speak a lick of English, however, they place their children in the care of bilingual schools or Spanish-speaking nannies, and then claim a seat from the Spanish dominant side of the lottery. Those kids aren't bringing much to the Oyster community except so-so Spanish skills. Trust me, at 4 years old, kids who have been in bilingual schools or have Span. speaking nannies (but come from exclusively English speaking homes), understand Spanish much better than they speak it. These kids are not offering any of the cultural benefits or broad Spanish vocabulary that kids who come from Spanish speaking homes bring to the table. They are simply stealing a space from a kid who truly offers those benefits. And once again, if your child's score is higher on the English test than the Spanish test, then clearly your child is English dominant.

Btw, I walk the walk. Our bilingual kid (from preschool) is IB for Oyster and we could have lied and gotten in on the Span. Dom side. As an IB family we are pretty much guaranteed a PK seat on the SD side. However, we know that was wrong (I.e., no rationalizing about our kids language abilities, etc). We were unsuccessful in the IB English-Dom PK lottery, so we waited our turn until our kid could enter Oyster in K--the honest way. Our son is thriving there and my conscience is clear.

And what "social engineering purposes" are you speaking about at Oyster?

My conscience is clear too. My nanny-raised bilingual child got a slot on the Span. Dom. Side and is do it again in a heartbeat. Kids raised here are all English dom. Unless straight off the boat.

You had a nanny raise your child but you still have a clear conscience? Based on that info, yes, your child probably was better off having that nanny as a mom over you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's so goofy. They won't consider someone who also speaks English a Spanish speaker? Why don't they just do what they really want to do and ask whether the parents speak English well (and to my skeptical thinking, is low-income)? My kid was always verbal and is the best Spanish speaker in a dual language school at PS3 but also speaks good English for a 3 year old.

And what is the point of a bilingual school that cheers bilingualism at age 5 but won't accept it at age 4?

What are you talking about?!? This rant makes absolutely no sense.

The Oyster "Spanish-dominant" lottery should be about identifying kids with the ability to speak Spanish and it seems like they're tweaking it to not allow kids who also speak English to use that as the lottery of their choice, because it works. And I know I am being cynical but I am afraid they are doing it for social engineering purposes rather than simply identifying language abilities, as they are happy to have bilingual children after entry.

No, the real problem is that, in the past, savvy parents have successfully gamed the system. These parents don't speak a lick of English, however, they place their children in the care of bilingual schools or Spanish-speaking nannies, and then claim a seat from the Spanish dominant side of the lottery. Those kids aren't bringing much to the Oyster community except so-so Spanish skills. Trust me, at 4 years old, kids who have been in bilingual schools or have Span. speaking nannies (but come from exclusively English speaking homes), understand Spanish much better than they speak it. These kids are not offering any of the cultural benefits or broad Spanish vocabulary that kids who come from Spanish speaking homes bring to the table. They are simply stealing a space from a kid who truly offers those benefits. And once again, if your child's score is higher on the English test than the Spanish test, then clearly your child is English dominant.

Btw, I walk the walk. Our bilingual kid (from preschool) is IB for Oyster and we could have lied and gotten in on the Span. Dom side. As an IB family we are pretty much guaranteed a PK seat on the SD side. However, we know that was wrong (I.e., no rationalizing about our kids language abilities, etc). We were unsuccessful in the IB English-Dom PK lottery, so we waited our turn until our kid could enter Oyster in K--the honest way. Our son is thriving there and my conscience is clear.

And what "social engineering purposes" are you speaking about at Oyster?

My conscience is clear too. My nanny-raised bilingual child got a slot on the Span. Dom. Side and is do it again in a heartbeat. Kids raised here are all English dom. Unless straight off the boat.

You had a nanny raise your child but you still have a clear conscience? Based on that info, yes, your child probably was better off having that nanny as a mom over you.

+1. I can already tell that this poor kid's moral values will be very weak with parental reasoning like this mother or father has displayed. "But...but we're all English dominant in this country. That's why it's ok to steal this PK seat at Oyster from the (intended) family that actually speaks Spanish at home. I mean everyone is doing it." Btw, I always make a mental note to keep my distance from OOB Oyster parents who entered in PK, but who clearly do not speak Spanish. Those are the kind of people who will cut your throat if they it would confer even a minor advantage to their kids. Thanks for the reminder pp.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's so goofy. They won't consider someone who also speaks English a Spanish speaker? Why don't they just do what they really want to do and ask whether the parents speak English well (and to my skeptical thinking, is low-income)? My kid was always verbal and is the best Spanish speaker in a dual language school at PS3 but also speaks good English for a 3 year old.

And what is the point of a bilingual school that cheers bilingualism at age 5 but won't accept it at age 4?

What are you talking about?!? This rant makes absolutely no sense.

The Oyster "Spanish-dominant" lottery should be about identifying kids with the ability to speak Spanish and it seems like they're tweaking it to not allow kids who also speak English to use that as the lottery of their choice, because it works. And I know I am being cynical but I am afraid they are doing it for social engineering purposes rather than simply identifying language abilities, as they are happy to have bilingual children after entry.

No, the real problem is that, in the past, savvy parents have successfully gamed the system. These parents don't speak a lick of English, however, they place their children in the care of bilingual schools or Spanish-speaking nannies, and then claim a seat from the Spanish dominant side of the lottery. Those kids aren't bringing much to the Oyster community except so-so Spanish skills. Trust me, at 4 years old, kids who have been in bilingual schools or have Span. speaking nannies (but come from exclusively English speaking homes), understand Spanish much better than they speak it. These kids are not offering any of the cultural benefits or broad Spanish vocabulary that kids who come from Spanish speaking homes bring to the table. They are simply stealing a space from a kid who truly offers those benefits. And once again, if your child's score is higher on the English test than the Spanish test, then clearly your child is English dominant.

Btw, I walk the walk. Our bilingual kid (from preschool) is IB for Oyster and we could have lied and gotten in on the Span. Dom side. As an IB family we are pretty much guaranteed a PK seat on the SD side. However, we know that was wrong (I.e., no rationalizing about our kids language abilities, etc). We were unsuccessful in the IB English-Dom PK lottery, so we waited our turn until our kid could enter Oyster in K--the honest way. Our son is thriving there and my conscience is clear.

And what "social engineering purposes" are you speaking about at Oyster?

My conscience is clear too. My nanny-raised bilingual child got a slot on the Span. Dom. Side and is do it again in a heartbeat. Kids raised here are all English dom. Unless straight off the boat.

You had a nanny raise your child but you still have a clear conscience? Based on that info, yes, your child probably was better off having that nanny as a mom over you.

+1. I can already tell that this poor kid's moral values will be very weak with parental reasoning like this mother or father has displayed. "But...but we're all English dominant in this country. That's why it's ok to steal this PK seat at Oyster from the (intended) family that actually speaks Spanish at home. I mean everyone is doing it." Btw, I always make a mental note to keep my distance from OOB Oyster parents who entered in PK, but who clearly do not speak Spanish. Those are the kind of people who will cut your throat if they [b]thought it would confer even a minor advantage to their kids. Thanks for the reminder pp.

[Anonymous]

Before judging parenting styles, let's recap the facts as they stand today which may have no relevance after the boundary smack-down.

re-K, regardless of boundary or siblings, means nothing at Oyster. Before kindergarten, DCPS is not required by law to give you any space in a DCPS. Even based on address or language dominance. However, there are no publicized standardized tests to validate Spanish-language dominance.

A DCPS school can establish Spanish proficiency or dominance however they want. Oyster-Adams traditionally had some kind of DCPS waiver that allowed it to test (however they wanted) and give preference to enrolled siblings at Pre-K level over IB new students.

But that was before bilingual charter schools started expanding and performing better. Oyster-Adams is not the only bilingual game in town anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Before judging parenting styles, let's recap the facts as they stand today which may have no relevance after the boundary smack-down.

re-K, regardless of boundary or siblings, means nothing at Oyster. Before kindergarten, DCPS is not required by law to give you any space in a DCPS. Even based on address or language dominance. However, there are no publicized standardized tests to validate Spanish-language dominance.

A DCPS school can establish Spanish proficiency or dominance however they want. Oyster-Adams traditionally had some kind of DCPS waiver that allowed it to test (however they wanted) and give preference to enrolled siblings at Pre-K level over IB new students.

But that was before bilingual charter schools started expanding and performing better. Oyster-Adams is not the only bilingual game in town anymore.

Thanks for the advice, but I will continue to harshly judge anyone who steals an education from the intended child (that comes from a Spanish-speaking home)…and then tries to justify it with lame excuses.

As an IB Oyster parent for a number of years, I am well aware of how the PK lottery works. My point is that any OOB child who is admitted via the Spanish-dominant (SD) lottery is supposed to come from a Spanish-speaking home. In the past , many thieving and conniving parents have exploited the principal’s weak gate-keeping on that issue; however, I understand that going forward the new lottery system will clearly define Spanish dominance...and it’s about time.

Btw, which bilingual charter schools are “performing better” than Oyster?!? There IS*NOT*ONE bilingual charter school in Washington, DC with better test scores than Oyster—not one. You are entitled to your own opinion, not your own facts. Oyster is not the only bilingual game in town, and for that I am VERY grateful. I just wish that more OOB English speaking families would recognize that fact and focus their attention on those bilingual charters. Oyster does not need them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Before judging parenting styles, let's recap the facts as they stand today which may have no relevance after the boundary smack-down.

re-K, regardless of boundary or siblings, means nothing at Oyster. Before kindergarten, DCPS is not required by law to give you any space in a DCPS. Even based on address or language dominance. However, there are no publicized standardized tests to validate Spanish-language dominance.

A DCPS school can establish Spanish proficiency or dominance however they want. Oyster-Adams traditionally had some kind of DCPS waiver that allowed it to test (however they wanted) and give preference to enrolled siblings at Pre-K level over IB new students.

But that was before bilingual charter schools started expanding and performing better. Oyster-Adams is not the only bilingual game in town anymore.

Thanks for the advice, but I will continue to harshly judge anyone who steals an education from the intended child (that comes from a Spanish-speaking home)…and then tries to justify it with lame excuses.

As an IB Oyster parent for a number of years, I am well aware of how the PK lottery works. My point is that any OOB child who is admitted via the Spanish-dominant (SD) lottery is supposed to come from a Spanish-speaking home. In the past , many thieving and conniving parents have exploited the principal’s weak gate-keeping on that issue; however, I understand that going forward the new lottery system will clearly define Spanish dominance...and it’s about time.

Btw, which bilingual charter schools are “performing better” than Oyster?!? There IS*NOT*ONE bilingual charter school in Washington, DC with better test scores than Oyster—not one. You are entitled to your own opinion, not your own facts. Oyster is not the only bilingual game in town, and for that I am VERY grateful. I just wish that more OOB English speaking families would recognize that fact and focus their attention on those bilingual charters. Oyster does not need them.

You seem to ignore completely the fact that perhaps a school with a unique mission should be located where there are Spanish language dominant kids that are in boundary, if it is going to be an zoned shool. If you are so pent up on the mission of the school, why not put it in the midst of a spanish speaking neighborhood instead of a very expensive one. And if all the parents are so very dedicated to bilingual education, why do so many English dominant kids leave before completing 8th grade. Guess they just don't need oyster anymore?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Before judging parenting styles, let's recap the facts as they stand today which may have no relevance after the boundary smack-down.

re-K, regardless of boundary or siblings, means nothing at Oyster. Before kindergarten, DCPS is not required by law to give you any space in a DCPS. Even based on address or language dominance. However, there are no publicized standardized tests to validate Spanish-language dominance.

A DCPS school can establish Spanish proficiency or dominance however they want. Oyster-Adams traditionally had some kind of DCPS waiver that allowed it to test (however they wanted) and give preference to enrolled siblings at Pre-K level over IB new students.

But that was before bilingual charter schools started expanding and performing better. Oyster-Adams is not the only bilingual game in town anymore.

Thanks for the advice, but I will continue to harshly judge anyone who steals an education from the intended child (that comes from a Spanish-speaking home)…and then tries to justify it with lame excuses.

As an IB Oyster parent for a number of years, I am well aware of how the PK lottery works. My point is that any OOB child who is admitted via the Spanish-dominant (SD) lottery is supposed to come from a Spanish-speaking home. In the past , many thieving and conniving parents have exploited the principal’s weak gate-keeping on that issue; however, I understand that going forward the new lottery system will clearly define Spanish dominance...and it’s about time.

Btw, which bilingual charter schools are “performing better” than Oyster?!? There IS*NOT*ONE bilingual charter school in Washington, DC with better test scores than Oyster—not one. You are entitled to your own opinion, not your own facts. Oyster is not the only bilingual game in town, and for that I am VERY grateful. I just wish that more OOB English speaking families would recognize that fact and focus their attention on those bilingual charters. Oyster does not need them.

You seem to ignore completely the fact that perhaps a school with a unique mission should be located where there are Spanish language dominant kids that are in boundary, if it is going to be an zoned shool. If you are so pent up on the mission of the school, why not put it in the midst of a spanish speaking neighborhood instead of a very expensive one. And if all the parents are so very dedicated to bilingual education, why do so many English dominant kids leave before completing 8th grade. Guess they just don't need oyster anymore?

You seem to ignore common sense that Oyster, a school that has been bilingual and in its present location for over 40 years, should NOT move to chase a Spanish speaking population. You do realize that Oyster’s “unique mission” is served very well where it currently stands, right? As long as the two lotteries are not gamed by education pirates, 50% of Oyster’s population is expected to come from IB (primarily affluent and English dominant), and 50% of its population is expected to be comprised of families where Spanish is spoken in the home (with no regard to race, boundary or socio-economic status). However, in practice, the SD lottery has served as a mechanism for regular middle class and scheming ED OOB families to enter Oyster—and many of them do not come from Spanish speaking homes. Once Oyster’s language lotteries are properly enforced, then the SD lottery will allow ONLY those students who come from Spanish speaking homes to fill those seats. There is no need to move the school, because the students will come from all over DC for a top quality bilingual education...as they always have done. If you are interested in a boundary-less dual immersion public school, allow me to introduce you to Yu Ying, Mundo Verde, Stokes, DC Bilingual, Sela, LAMB, etc.
Are you really interested in serving more Spanish speaking kids in DC, or do you really just want to punish English speaking families who have the means to move IB for Oyster? It sounds like the latter to me.
Btw, I don’t know why other parents pull their kids from Oyster before 8th grade. You should ask them, but we intend to stay. Perhaps they just have lots of great options (i.e, Deal, private schools, etc). Does it also bother you that IB Oyster parents have so many great options? Why are you so jealous?

[Anonymous]

what is interesting and seems unsustainable about is that it is a tightly geographically bounded school on the one side, with a high-income mostly white population, and it used to have a geographically proximate Spanish I speaking population. Since that population has moved further away, Oyster has taken on an odd half-bilingual-magnet configuration but only for the side of the school the starts off Spanish speaking. For inbounds upper class parents the school is a right, for everyone else it's a couple of seats in a good school if your child speaks Spanish. And the dynamic of who get those Spanish reserved seats is competitive due to overall limited quality in the City.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:what is interesting and seems unsustainable about is that it is a tightly geographically bounded school on the one side, with a high-income mostly white population, and it used to have a geographically proximate Spanish I speaking population. Since that population has moved further away, Oyster has taken on an odd half-bilingual-magnet configuration but only for the side of the school the starts off Spanish speaking. For inbounds upper class parents the school is a right, for everyone else it's a couple of seats in a good school if your child speaks Spanish. And the dynamic of who get those Spanish reserved seats is competitive due to overall limited quality in the City.

Adams Morgan, Mt. Pleasant and Columbia Heights are all geographically proximate to Oyster (all less than 2 miles away). These also happen to be neighborhoods with large Spanish speaking populations (especially Mt.P and CH). Both Bancroft and Marie are over 60% Spanish speaking Hispanic, and MR is within easy walking distance of Oyster. Do you honestly believe that many of those parents would find it much more difficult to get their child to Oyster if offered a seat? Unfortunately, many of those available seats are being stolen by English speaking families. The solution is not to make Oyster a de facto charter school with lottery admission for all. Instead, the principal needs to ensure that the integrity of the SD lottery is preserved. Otherwise, Oyster will lose the demographic mixture that makes it so attractive to so many.