Oyster vs. Ross

[Anonymous]

The definition has never been clear. My wife's home language is Spanish but because she was raised here she speaks English like you or me. I am an obvious second-language speaker but use it every day all day at home. Our son didn't speak English until he started school. Bilingualism doesn't seem to be accounted for in admissions even though it is a bilingual school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP here with question re: Oyster, tried to find on other threads or dcps website but wasn't able. What is the real definition for "spanish language dominant"? Does it work to apply as spanish-dominant if the child was in a bilingual preschool, if the parents are not native Spanish speakers?

That may have worked in the past, but it appears that times have changed at Oyster (beginning w/ kids starting this year). Kids admitted to Oyster through the OOB lottery (Span. Dom) are all tested in English and Spanish. If their English scores are higher than their Spanish scores (even if they pass the Spanish test), they will not be admitted. It makes sense b/c if your English scores are higher, then obviously you're not Span. Dom. Plus, the new unified DC public schools lottery will now provide a definition for Span. Dom. at Oyster.

[Anonymous]

That's so goofy. They won't consider someone who also speaks English a Spanish speaker? Why don't they just do what they really want to do and ask whether the parents speak English well (and to my skeptical thinking, is low-income)? My kid was always verbal and is the best Spanish speaker in a dual language school at PS3 but also speaks good English for a 3 year old.

And what is the point of a bilingual school that cheers bilingualism at age 5 but won't accept it at age 4?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That's so goofy. They won't consider someone who also speaks English a Spanish speaker? Why don't they just do what they really want to do and ask whether the parents speak English well (and to my skeptical thinking, is low-income)? My kid was always verbal and is the best Spanish speaker in a dual language school at PS3 but also speaks good English for a 3 year old.

And what is the point of a bilingual school that cheers bilingualism at age 5 but won't accept it at age 4?

What are you talking about?!? This rant makes absolutely no sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP here with question re: Oyster, tried to find on other threads or dcps website but wasn't able. What is the real definition for "spanish language dominant"? Does it work to apply as spanish-dominant if the child was in a bilingual preschool, if the parents are not native Spanish speakers?

That may have worked in the past, but it appears that times have changed at Oyster (beginning w/ kids starting this year). Kids admitted to Oyster through the OOB lottery (Span. Dom) are all tested in English and Spanish. If their English scores are higher than their Spanish scores (even if they pass the Spanish test), they will not be admitted. It makes sense b/c if your English scores are higher, then obviously you're not Span. Dom. Plus, the new unified DC public schools lottery will now provide a definition for Span. Dom. at Oyster.

Okay, thanks for this response! It makes sense they would refine it now with the unified lottery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's so goofy. They won't consider someone who also speaks English a Spanish speaker? Why don't they just do what they really want to do and ask whether the parents speak English well (and to my skeptical thinking, is low-income)? My kid was always verbal and is the best Spanish speaker in a dual language school at PS3 but also speaks good English for a 3 year old.

And what is the point of a bilingual school that cheers bilingualism at age 5 but won't accept it at age 4?

What are you talking about?!? This rant makes absolutely no sense.

The Oyster "Spanish-dominant" lottery should be about identifying kids with the ability to speak Spanish and it seems like they're tweaking it to not allow kids who also speak English to use that as the lottery of their choice, because it works. And I know I am being cynical but I am afraid they are doing it for social engineering purposes rather than simply identifying language abilities, as they are happy to have bilingual children after entry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's so goofy. They won't consider someone who also speaks English a Spanish speaker? Why don't they just do what they really want to do and ask whether the parents speak English well (and to my skeptical thinking, is low-income)? My kid was always verbal and is the best Spanish speaker in a dual language school at PS3 but also speaks good English for a 3 year old.

And what is the point of a bilingual school that cheers bilingualism at age 5 but won't accept it at age 4?

What are you talking about?!? This rant makes absolutely no sense.

The Oyster "Spanish-dominant" lottery should be about identifying kids with the ability to speak Spanish and it seems like they're tweaking it to not allow kids who also speak English to use that as the lottery of their choice, because it works. And I know I am being cynical but I am afraid they are doing it for social engineering purposes rather than simply identifying language abilities, as they are happy to have bilingual children after entry.

Perhaps things will change with the boundary review anyhow, in terms of it becoming a city-wide type of school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's so goofy. They won't consider someone who also speaks English a Spanish speaker? Why don't they just do what they really want to do and ask whether the parents speak English well (and to my skeptical thinking, is low-income)? My kid was always verbal and is the best Spanish speaker in a dual language school at PS3 but also speaks good English for a 3 year old.

And what is the point of a bilingual school that cheers bilingualism at age 5 but won't accept it at age 4?

What are you talking about?!? This rant makes absolutely no sense.

The Oyster "Spanish-dominant" lottery should be about identifying kids with the ability to speak Spanish and it seems like they're tweaking it to not allow kids who also speak English to use that as the lottery of their choice, because it works. And I know I am being cynical but I am afraid they are doing it for social engineering purposes rather than simply identifying language abilities, as they are happy to have bilingual children after entry.

No, the real problem is that, in the past, savvy parents have successfully gamed the system. These parents don't speak a lick of English, however, they place their children in the care of bilingual schools or Spanish-speaking nannies, and then claim a seat from the Spanish dominant side of the lottery. Those kids aren't bringing much to the Oyster community except so-so Spanish skills. Trust me, at 4 years old, kids who have been in bilingual schools or have Span. speaking nannies (but come from exclusively English speaking homes), understand Spanish much better than they speak it. These kids are not offering any of the cultural benefits or broad Spanish vocabulary that kids who come from Spanish speaking homes bring to the table. They are simply stealing a space from a kid who truly offers those benefits. And once again, if your child's score is higher on the English test than the Spanish test, then clearly your child is English dominant.

Btw, I walk the walk. Our bilingual kid (from preschool) is IB for Oyster and we could have lied and gotten in on the Span. Dom side. As an IB family we are pretty much guaranteed a PK seat on the SD side. However, we know that was wrong (I.e., no rationalizing about our kids language abilities, etc). We were unsuccessful in the IB English-Dom PK lottery, so we waited our turn until our kid could enter Oyster in K--the honest way. Our son is thriving there and my conscience is clear.

And what "social engineering purposes" are you speaking about at Oyster?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's so goofy. They won't consider someone who also speaks English a Spanish speaker? Why don't they just do what they really want to do and ask whether the parents speak English well (and to my skeptical thinking, is low-income)? My kid was always verbal and is the best Spanish speaker in a dual language school at PS3 but also speaks good English for a 3 year old.

And what is the point of a bilingual school that cheers bilingualism at age 5 but won't accept it at age 4?

What are you talking about?!? This rant makes absolutely no sense.

The Oyster "Spanish-dominant" lottery should be about identifying kids with the ability to speak Spanish and it seems like they're tweaking it to not allow kids who also speak English to use that as the lottery of their choice, because it works. And I know I am being cynical but I am afraid they are doing it for social engineering purposes rather than simply identifying language abilities, as they are happy to have bilingual children after entry.

Perhaps things will change with the boundary review anyhow, in terms of it becoming a city-wide type of school.

Ha--I have personally spoken w/ DCPS officials about Oyster becoming a citywide school. While the principal may be interested in that possibility, the people I spoke with said that DCPS has no such interest. Apparently, DCPS is not interested in creating problems at Oyster where there are none. Besides, what would be the purpose, other than to lower Oyster's scores to that of the (citywide) language immersion charters in DC?

[Anonymous]

The social-engineering is about constantly moving the goal posts to make the Spanish-dominant side of things continue to be low-income immigrant Spanish-speaking families. The reality of Hispanic America today includes families who speak English enough to succeed in the American workplace without giving up culture and language.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The social-engineering is about constantly moving the goal posts to make the Spanish-dominant side of things continue to be low-income immigrant Spanish-speaking families. The reality of Hispanic America today includes families who speak English enough to succeed in the American workplace without giving up culture and language.

What precludes more affluent Hispanics from gaining admission to Oyster from the SD side of the lottery? If a bilingual education is so important to these families, they can enroll their children in bilingual preschools (like everyone else), AND speak Spanish to their children at home for the extra advantage. With that combination, I have no doubt that their children will easily score higher on the Spanish test. However, affluent Spanish speaking families are NOT more entitled to those OOB Spanish dominant seats than a poor immigrant family that speaks Spanish...and not much else. If those affluent Hispanics want to guarantee a spot at Oyster, they need to move IB like the rest us English Dom. Families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The social-engineering is about constantly moving the goal posts to make the Spanish-dominant side of things continue to be low-income immigrant Spanish-speaking families. The reality of Hispanic America today includes families who speak English enough to succeed in the American workplace without giving up culture and language.

What precludes more affluent Hispanics from gaining admission to Oyster from the SD side of the lottery? If a bilingual education is so important to these families, they can enroll their children in bilingual preschools (like everyone else), AND speak Spanish to their children at home for the extra advantage. With that combination, I have no doubt that their children will easily score higher on the Spanish test. However, affluent Spanish speaking families are NOT more entitled to those OOB Spanish dominant seats than a poor immigrant family that speaks Spanish...and not much else. If those affluent Hispanics want to guarantee a spot at Oyster, they need to move IB like the rest us English Dom. Families.

Well how can you know that your kid is going to respond better in English or Spanish on a given test day if they are bilingual? These are FOUR YEAR-OLDS. It biases the test in favor of kids who speak basically no English.

[Anonymous]

General comment here. We love Oyster and find nothing more wrong with it than what would be seen at any other school. The curriculum is highly challenging, with the kids learning subjects in two languages at once, and the teachers we have had so far are exceptional and care very much about their work and students. Our daughters are more than thriving there and have no complaints as well. We also love the families that attend there. From a very international crowd, multiple languages and socio economic backgrounds. Even the after school program rocks. So anyone thinking of sending their child here, should feel at ease. It is and has always been a very special, and great school. You won't find this type of school much anywhere else unless you pay big money for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's so goofy. They won't consider someone who also speaks English a Spanish speaker? Why don't they just do what they really want to do and ask whether the parents speak English well (and to my skeptical thinking, is low-income)? My kid was always verbal and is the best Spanish speaker in a dual language school at PS3 but also speaks good English for a 3 year old.

And what is the point of a bilingual school that cheers bilingualism at age 5 but won't accept it at age 4?

What are you talking about?!? This rant makes absolutely no sense.

The Oyster "Spanish-dominant" lottery should be about identifying kids with the ability to speak Spanish and it seems like they're tweaking it to not allow kids who also speak English to use that as the lottery of their choice, because it works. And I know I am being cynical but I am afraid they are doing it for social engineering purposes rather than simply identifying language abilities, as they are happy to have bilingual children after entry.

No, the real problem is that, in the past, savvy parents have successfully gamed the system. These parents don't speak a lick of English, however, they place their children in the care of bilingual schools or Spanish-speaking nannies, and then claim a seat from the Spanish dominant side of the lottery. Those kids aren't bringing much to the Oyster community except so-so Spanish skills. Trust me, at 4 years old, kids who have been in bilingual schools or have Span. speaking nannies (but come from exclusively English speaking homes), understand Spanish much better than they speak it. These kids are not offering any of the cultural benefits or broad Spanish vocabulary that kids who come from Spanish speaking homes bring to the table. They are simply stealing a space from a kid who truly offers those benefits. And once again, if your child's score is higher on the English test than the Spanish test, then clearly your child is English dominant.

Btw, I walk the walk. Our bilingual kid (from preschool) is IB for Oyster and we could have lied and gotten in on the Span. Dom side. As an IB family we are pretty much guaranteed a PK seat on the SD side. However, we know that was wrong (I.e., no rationalizing about our kids language abilities, etc). We were unsuccessful in the IB English-Dom PK lottery, so we waited our turn until our kid could enter Oyster in K--the honest way. Our son is thriving there and my conscience is clear.

And what "social engineering purposes" are you speaking about at Oyster?

My conscience is clear too. My nanny-raised bilingual child got a slot on the Span. Dom. Side and is do it again in a heartbeat. Kids raised here are all English dom. Unless straight off the boat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The social-engineering is about constantly moving the goal posts to make the Spanish-dominant side of things continue to be low-income immigrant Spanish-speaking families. The reality of Hispanic America today includes families who speak English enough to succeed in the American workplace without giving up culture and language.

What precludes more affluent Hispanics from gaining admission to Oyster from the SD side of the lottery? If a bilingual education is so important to these families, they can enroll their children in bilingual preschools (like everyone else), AND speak Spanish to their children at home for the extra advantage. With that combination, I have no doubt that their children will easily score higher on the Spanish test. However, affluent Spanish speaking families are NOT more entitled to those OOB Spanish dominant seats than a poor immigrant family that speaks Spanish...and not much else. If those affluent Hispanics want to guarantee a spot at Oyster, they need to move IB like the rest us English Dom. Families.

Well how can you know that your kid is going to respond better in English or Spanish on a given test day if they are bilingual? These are FOUR YEAR-OLDS. It biases the test in favor of kids who speak basically no English.

Then move IB and guarantee your child's spot!