Fairfax County-unequal opportunity for language learning?

[Anonymous]

Solution: Get rid of FLES in all schools.

[Anonymous]

It's my understanding the the schools who were initially "given" FLES were the ones who did not (at that time) have all day Kindergarten. It was kind of a consolation prize.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wonder what the reaction would be to eliminating the immersion program and institution FLES in all schools? Not saying I support this, but I'm sure parents of immersion kids would not like this idea; their child would be missing immersion. But at the same time, not every child can get into immersion because it is by lottery, so its not fair. I pay the same taxes as the neighbor's kid who was lucky in the lottery even though my kid was last on the waitlist.

I'd happily pay more taxes for all schools to have, at the minimum, FLES. Sadly, our ES does not have FLES or immersion. It does bother me that some schools have both.

Just note that for the schools that have both immersion and FLES, the FLES is only for the non-immersion students. There are no students that I am aware of that get both.

On another note, my DC's school did not get FLES after several years of applying, so our Principal went out and applied for and received a grant to institute something similar himself. It now shows up as a FLES school, but I don't know if the fundong is from the County or the grant. It has been at least 5 years since the program started.

I know they are separate programs at the school, but it seems unfair that some schools get both while others have neither.

Thanks for mentioning the grant alternative. My kids aren't in school yet, but I did speak with our principal about adding FLES. He cited funding, but said he expected it to be in all ES in a few years. So I'm even more saddened to hear it might not be added to any schools. I think about 40 schools don't have it. If they could add 10 a year, that would get in all ES in years. It might not be great, but in my mind, something is better than nothing. I've already thought about supplementing with a tutor.

Whether one school has both FLES and immersion and another school doesn't have either OR one has immersion and one has FLES, still means there are students who do not have any options. The inequality is still there if there are students that do not have access to FLES or Immersion. If you had FLES in all non-immersion schools but not in Immersion schools, then it still would not be fair to the non-immersion students at immersion schools.

So why not add FLES to all schools first, then add immersion? And the fact that you have to provide transportation for out of bounds students likely limits the number of students applying for immersion, thus increasing the chances of inbound students to get in. And if the inbound kid doesn't get in, he still has the opportunity to go to FLES, while my kid doesn't.

Okay, I get it know. If your child had FLES or immersion, you wouldn't be complaining. It isn't so much that you feel that it is unfair that some students get immersion or FLES and some students do not. It is that your child doesn't have access to FLES or immersion.

Actually, my preference is for all students to have the same opportunity and as it stands now, they don't. Of the two, immersion would be the best, but I get that there are budget issues, so why not offer at least something as opposed to nothing? I see foreign language in ES as an enrichment activity, like art or music. All kids should have an opportunity for the same enrichment activities. Do all schools offer art and music? I get you have to qualify for AAP (you don't see me saying all schools should offer it), but you don't have to qualify for an enrichment activity.

If you read one of my earlier posts, I said I don't support doing away with immersion, I simply asked a question and the truth is the parents who already have immersion would never let it go in favor of all kids getting an opportunity to have FLES. Why is that any different than me wanting it for my kids? As I said, though, I'd rather all kids get foreign language.

I'm not looking to argue. I see inequity.

[Anonymous]

Okay. Do you see inequity in Title I children having smaller classes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Okay. Do you see inequity in Title I children having smaller classes?

NP here: Fair does not mean equal. Everyone does not have to get the same exact thing in order for everyone to get fair treatment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's my understanding the the schools who were initially "given" FLES were the ones who did not (at that time) have all day Kindergarten. It was kind of a consolation prize.

Not true. We didn't get fullday kindergarten until last year and were denied FLES. Ironically both came about the same time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay. Do you see inequity in Title I children having smaller classes?

NP here: Fair does not mean equal. Everyone does not have to get the same exact thing in order for everyone to get fair treatment.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What you don't get is that FCPS funds are limited. Is FLES the best use of those funds? I don't think so.

That is not the point-FCPS has already made the decision with its tax payer funded pocketbook that fles is the best use of funds. That is why many schools have it.

The point is that we are ALL paying the same taxes and therefore there should be equal opportuniy to be considered (vs zero chance which is the policy is now for fles)

Fine if they don't want to offer at all schools due to cost but then they need to alter the current transfer request policy or lottery opportunity policy to ensure equal opportunity to apply and be considered (whether via lottery or other) vs what is happening right now which is total discrimination by locality ( there is zero opportunity for a student to be considered for fles if they are in a non fles boundary). Notice I said equal opportunity for CONSIDERATION vs access...that is really the issue here

The parents of students who don't get fles are paying taxes just like others in other boundary areas and don't have a choice to pay less...they should be given a shot at those resources...

Totally ridiculous policy to deny access entirely...

[Anonymous]

Can we apply to get transferred to a FLES school? Ours doesn't offer it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In response to the comment that because I did not teach the language, that I don't know what I am talking about:


No, I did not teach the foreign language. However, I was in the classroom and assisted the German teacher when she taught. I observed this over several years. The kids did not learn to speak German from the class. Sure, they learned “please” and “thank you” in German and they learned German about German food. But, they did not learn to speak German—UNLESS they lived on the German economy and played with German children.
Again, it was a “nice to have” program. Certainly, the chidren I taught benefited from the program because they were living in Germany. But, value for the dollar in FCPS classrooms? NO.

The fact that you were ever a teacher is scary. How about you do a simple google search on language learning. My DD is a native speaker of Spanish and never stepped foot in a Spanish language country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Okay. Do you see inequity in Title I children having smaller classes?

I do not have a problem with Title I schools have smaller classess. My beef is that Fairfax County uses those smaller classes to manipulate the state requirement for maximum average size of classes. As a result, they increase the size of classes in non Title I schools to far above the state maximums. They take the average of the class sizes across the entire county and they say they are at or below the state maximums.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay. Do you see inequity in Title I children having smaller classes?

I do not have a problem with Title I schools have smaller classess. My beef is that Fairfax County uses those smaller classes to manipulate the state requirement for maximum average size of classes. As a result, they increase the size of classes in non Title I schools to far above the state maximums. They take the average of the class sizes across the entire county and they say they are at or below the state maximums.

Here is the actual Code of Virginia regarding class size (21.2-253.13:2)
C. Each school board shall assign licensed instructional personnel in a manner that produces divisionwide ratios of students in average daily membership to full-time equivalent teaching positions, excluding special education teachers, principals, assistant principals, counselors, and librarians, that are not greater than the following ratios: (i) 24 to one in kindergarten with no class being larger than 29 students; if the average daily membership in any kindergarten class exceeds 24 pupils, a full-time teacher's aide shall be assigned to the class; (ii) 24 to one in grades one, two, and three with no class being larger than 30 students; (iii) 25 to one in grades four through six with no class being larger than 35 students; and (iv) 24 to one in English classes in grades six through 12.

Quick translation: Kindergarten max is 29, grades 1-3 max is 30 and grades 4-6 is 35

Please tell me where there are class sizes "far above" these maximums.

[Anonymous]

Quick translation: Kindergarten max is 29, grades 1-3 max is 30 and grades 4-6 is 35

Far too high for successful teaching. I taught first grade and had over that max on a number of occasions. Manageable? yes. Successful? not so sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay. Do you see inequity in Title I children having smaller classes?

I do not have a problem with Title I schools have smaller classess. My beef is that Fairfax County uses those smaller classes to manipulate the state requirement for maximum average size of classes. As a result, they increase the size of classes in non Title I schools to far above the state maximums. They take the average of the class sizes across the entire county and they say they are at or below the state maximums.

Here is the actual Code of Virginia regarding class size (21.2-253.13:2)
C. Each school board shall assign licensed instructional personnel in a manner that produces divisionwide ratios of students in average daily membership to full-time equivalent teaching positions, excluding special education teachers, principals, assistant principals, counselors, and librarians, that are not greater than the following ratios: (i) 24 to one in kindergarten with no class being larger than 29 students; if the average daily membership in any kindergarten class exceeds 24 pupils, a full-time teacher's aide shall be assigned to the class; (ii) 24 to one in grades one, two, and three with no class being larger than 30 students; (iii) 25 to one in grades four through six with no class being larger than 35 students; and (iv) 24 to one in English classes in grades six through 12.

Quick translation: Kindergarten max is 29, grades 1-3 max is 30 and grades 4-6 is 35

Please tell me where there are class sizes "far above" these maximums.

The law is about average class size, but allow individual classes to be larger. FCPS makes sure they do not exceed the individual class max, but they do average the Title I lower average class sizes with the non-Title I schools to make the county average meet the classroom average.


Quick translation: Maximum Average class size for Kindergarten is 24, graders 1-3 average max is 24 and grades 4-6 is 25.

My DCs' class sizes were never below the maximum average throughout ES. If there were 100 children, there would be 3 classes not 4 in the upper grades.