Fairfax County-unequal opportunity for language learning?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the original poster:

It's not like they are denying students equal math or reading education. It's a foreign language and I don't think its a requirement for them to teach it to everyone. Something nice to have, but most don't seem to care about it as much as you do.

New poster here. You are wrong (not to mention short-sighted, IMO). A foreign language in elementary should not be seen as "nice" but as "basic". And yeah, most parents I know care as much as OP does, so I wouldn't assume her to be in the minority. We just bought a house in N. Arlington and one of the first things we looked at for the local elementary was its foreign language program.

THIS. For fcps to even for a second think it delivers world class education without such a basic subject as a standard in this ever increasing global society is insane. Even school systems with less funding than ours manage to succeed in this regard.

Please come to County Board and School Board meetings and argue for higher taxes. (I actually think taxes are very low here.) Adding an extra subject in school is far from cheap, and since there are no state foreign language mandates, there is no money for it from the state. But if you want FCPS to offer it at every elementary school, step up and start clamoring for higher taxes to pay for it.

[Anonymous]

Here's a suggestion:
Instead of raising everyone's taxes, how about springing for Rosetta Stone for your child?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
It also exposes children to the fact that there are different cultures and languages in the world that are just as important as English.



Any child in Fairfax County who is not aware of this would have to be living in a vacuum.

If you think that because some kids see other kids and adults of different ethnicities equates to the fact that they actually learn positive things about other cultures and languages then you live in a fantasy.

Your child will learn far more from becoming friends with kds of other cultures than from a teacher twice a week.

[Anonymous]

I speak from some experience with foreign languages in the elementary school. I taught school to DOD kids in Germany for a number of years. The kids were taught German twice a week. It was a “nice to have” program—and I think it is great to have that program. However, in these times of tough budgets, it just does not have the value for the money.
First, the kids I taught were living in Germany. However, the only children In my class who learned to speak German were the children who were living in German villages and playing with German children. The children whose parents took them on trips and shopping also learned a little German. They certainly developed an appreciation for the culture-but they were living in the country. Sadly, some families seldom took their kids out “on the economy”. Except for the German candy store down the street—and a few school field trips-, the children had little exposure.
Another thing about FLES: Here in FCPS there is little opportunity for follow-up. For example, an elementary school might offer Chinese-but there is not a Chinese teacher in the middle school-or high school.
And, remember, there are many children in FCPS who speak English as a second language. Do they benefit from a third language?
I think most elementary schools in FCPS probably do cultural days of some type. Almost all teachers certainly encourage learning about other cultures. However, the very best way to encourage learning about other cultures is to become friends with your neighbors who come from another country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It also exposes children to the fact that there are different cultures and languages in the world that are just as important as English.

Any child in Fairfax County who is not aware of this would have to be living in a vacuum.

If you think that because some kids see other kids and adults of different ethnicities equates to the fact that they actually learn positive things about other cultures and languages then you live in a fantasy.

Amen!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's a suggestion:
Instead of raising everyone's taxes, how about springing for Rosetta Stone for your child?

Wow, so glad you're not in my school district!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I speak from some experience with foreign languages in the elementary school. I taught school to DOD kids in Germany for a number of years. The kids were taught German twice a week. It was a “nice to have” program—and I think it is great to have that program. However, in these times of tough budgets, it just does not have the value for the money.
First, the kids I taught were living in Germany. However, the only children In my class who learned to speak German were the children who were living in German villages and playing with German children. The children whose parents took them on trips and shopping also learned a little German. They certainly developed an appreciation for the culture-but they were living in the country. Sadly, some families seldom took their kids out “on the economy”. Except for the German candy store down the street—and a few school field trips-, the children had little exposure.
Another thing about FLES: Here in FCPS there is little opportunity for follow-up. For example, an elementary school might offer Chinese-but there is not a Chinese teacher in the middle school-or high school.
And, remember, there are many children in FCPS who speak English as a second language. Do they benefit from a third language?
I think most elementary schools in FCPS probably do cultural days of some type. Almost all teachers certainly encourage learning about other cultures. However, the very best way to encourage learning about other cultures is to become friends with your neighbors who come from another country.

Sorry, but the fact of having taught overseas does not make you an expert, since you clearly didn't teach a foreign language. And yes, "in these times of tough budgets", the best thing we can do is support the wisest choice for the future, education. No one is saying that doing fles twice a week or even an immersion will make our kids fluent, and the people who are even bringing this up clearly don't know anything about language acquisition and learning. Foreign languages in elementary are a precious tool to help our kids grow up to be mature, well-rounded individuals both overseas and especially here at home. Study after study proves this, and I for one am more than happy to pay taxes for this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And to add, it's just another way for families that cheaped out and bought in bad school districts to slide in to good schools without paying for it.

Wow. Just wow.

True. So true.

See this all the time , for example timberlane is the worst elementary school for mclean high school and the parents do language immersion to avoid it. To quote a parent "yeah whatever french immersion don't know don't care , just happy shes avoiding timberlane and can be in mclean pyramid's better schools after."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can somebody help me understand how it is possible that Fairfax county provides unequal opportunity in schools funded by taxpayer dollars and doesn't address this fact through a viable transfer request process?

Only certain elementary schools are designated as immersion (Kent Gardens for French as example). Some others have fles but only in a specific language (Chinese only offered at a few school, Spanish at a few others etc)

If a student wishes to have immersion or a specific language they are basically out of luck unless they are zoned for a school that has those--and it's haphazard in terms of who has what. And to make matters worse, you are only eligible for immersion in middle school if you had in elementary which basically discriminates against those who go to elementaries with no language option

In Arlington at least there is a lottery system where you get a fair (even if limited) shot at accessing this type of taxpayer funded resource for your child at a location reasonable to your home (ie-Claremont or Key for Spanish)

In Fairfax, the policy seems unequal that some school populations are denied the opportunity given to other school populations.

Unless I have misread the transfer policy, you can not request a transfer review due to desire for immersion or language exposure nor can you apply for a lottery to a school with immersion or fles unless you live in certain bounds for that school or cluster Seems ripe for a petition of some sorts to get it looked at. I am surprised that there doesn't seem to be much discontent in this (much on these boards is about aap but I rarely hear anything about the language options. Maybe I have totally misunderstood the situation?

Am I mistaken? Just seems like a policy that treats taxpayer dollars unevenly.

It took decades for them to offer full day kindergarten to all children. It is all about resources.

And working parents pushing for this.

[Anonymous]

In response to the comment that because I did not teach the language, that I don't know what I am talking about:


No, I did not teach the foreign language. However, I was in the classroom and assisted the German teacher when she taught. I observed this over several years. The kids did not learn to speak German from the class. Sure, they learned “please” and “thank you” in German and they learned German about German food. But, they did not learn to speak German—UNLESS they lived on the German economy and played with German children.
Again, it was a “nice to have” program. Certainly, the chidren I taught benefited from the program because they were living in Germany. But, value for the dollar in FCPS classrooms? NO.

[Anonymous]

Again, just your personal, subjective opinion. Mine remains that I'm glad my (bilingual) children will have the benefit of exposure to a third language thanks also to the taxes I happily pay.

[Anonymous]

I think I've figured it out: you must be a foreign language teacher.

[Anonymous]

I'd rather my tax money be spent on something worthwhile-like helping kids learn to read and write English.

[Anonymous]

Sorry, but the fact of having taught overseas does not make you an expert, since you clearly didn't teach a foreign language. And yes, "in these times of tough budgets", the best thing we can do is support the wisest choice for the future, education. No one is saying that doing fles twice a week or even an immersion will make our kids fluent, and the people who are even bringing this up clearly don't know anything about language acquisition and learning. Foreign languages in elementary are a precious tool to help our kids grow up to be mature, well-rounded individuals both overseas and especially here at home. Study after study proves this, and I for one am more than happy to pay taxes for this.

Can you link those studies?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Sorry, but the fact of having taught overseas does not make you an expert, since you clearly didn't teach a foreign language. And yes, "in these times of tough budgets", the best thing we can do is support the wisest choice for the future, education. No one is saying that doing fles twice a week or even an immersion will make our kids fluent, and the people who are even bringing this up clearly don't know anything about language acquisition and learning. Foreign languages in elementary are a precious tool to help our kids grow up to be mature, well-rounded individuals both overseas and especially here at home. Study after study proves this, and I for one am more than happy to pay taxes for this.

Can you link those studies?

Wow, is this actually the first place where you've heard of the overall benefit to your brain when you can speak a foreign language??
But just to humor you, let's see what you can come up with a basic google search: research studies done on individuals ranging from infants to adults (and, tellingly, many focus on pre-schoolers) in clinical settings as varied as Stanford and Spain, Sorbonne and Japan. I thought that the cognitive advantages of knowing a second language had been well-known since at least the Sixties...