Oyster relocating?
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Anonymous
I was basing what I wrote on OA's lottery results page: https://lottery.dcps.dc.gov/lottery_results.aspx It looks like they allocated 10 slots in PK4 for English, 25 for Spanish. After that they showed a divided lottery for K and 1st grades, and a single lottery for 2nd and up. K showed 5 Spanish speaking slots available in the lottery, and basically no spots available in upper grades other than maybe 2 or 3. Now, I don't know anything about how they run their lottery. Do they open up a lot more slots later, over the summer? Is there a point at which they do divide the later lotteries up into language ability groups? |
Anonymous
I'm also an outside observer with no stake in this, but I see an argument with the above: most of the non-Spanish kids start Oyster in K. Only a handful get in during pre-K, and there is no PS program. So at most you would be giving the English-dominant kids one year of full immersion, with a few possibly getting two. MV gives them three. I just don't see how this survives as a neighborhood school with the demographics of the neighborhood. |
Anonymous
That's a really good point. Tough situation, with the demographics moving against you. |
Anonymous
| But then why not tweak the boundaries? There are adjascent neighborhoods with Spanish-speaking populations. Why not change who is admitted via the Spanish dominant lottery? Why on earth would they jump to scrapping the longstanding neighborhood, language immersion school? I suspect because, as PPs have pointed out, the principal has ambitions and goals of her own. |
Anonymous
I think so, too. She wants to be independent of the constraints of DCPS? Fine, open a charter. Control the admissions, start it all in one building, beef up the inclusion program, and cater to poor Hispanics. Done. |
Anonymous
Actually, quite a few of Oyster's IB English-dominant kids are bilingual (like my DC) from having attended a Spanish immersion preschool for years. So when my child arrived in K, she had already received 4 years of Spanish instruction/immersion. This fall’s PK class will have 25 Spanish-dom. kids (out of 35). Oyster’s three K classes usually total 75 kids (25/classroom). If you have 25 rising K Span-dom. kids (from the aforementioned PK class), plus 5 more added in K, then you have 30 Spanish-dom. kids out of 75 (that’s 40% Spanish-dom). Included in that 75 K class will be at least 10 kids like mine (bilingual, but they come from an English speaking home). So now, you have AT LEAST 40 Spanish-dom and bilingual kids—that’s 53% (better than 50/50) of the K class that speaks and understands the target language. If you make Oyster full immersion for PK and K, that should be all you need to tip the scales. Show me the will (on Oyster’s part), and I’ll show you the way. My kid is already in so we’re fine either way. I just think that moving the school is a bad idea for Oyster. No other immersion school in DC (charter or DCPS) can touch Oyster’s test scores. That fact is not unrelated to the predominately affluent, well-educated IB (both English and Spanish dom.) families who send their well-prepared children to Oyster. If you eliminate that important (but often overlooked) ingredient, watch the test scores slide as well (to say nothing of the fundraising). |
Anonymous
Good post. One question, how many of the 25 PK4 kids admitted in the Spanish lottery only (or predominantly) speak Spanish? I think that's a big part of it to, as some other posters alluded to. I think there are quite a few kids who would pass a Spanish language speaking test, but are still more comfortable speaking in English, so that's what they default to if they aren't forced to speak Spanish. I say that because the other day I noticed a fully bilingual parent I know, speaking totally in Spanish to their child, who understood everything and responded solely in English. This is a kid with one fully bilingual parent, and one parent who speaks pretty good English but probably speaks Spanish 90% of the time. If a kid like that speaks English to their English-only peers, those kids won't get the Spanish they need. A lot of this is related to income levels, as you said. There are a number of truly bilingual adults in the OA area, who speak perfect English because of their educational background. Their kids get into the PK4 Spanish lottery, and are fluent in Spanish, but don't really speak it to their peers. Not trying to advocate one way or the other (earlier outsider poster), just trying to understand the dynamics at play. From what I can see, it's really tough to match up an immersion model that relies on some control of admissions, with a "by right" neighborhood school. |
Anonymous
That’s a very good question. Oyster’s principal has historically admitted quite a few “Spanish dominate” kids who, in fact, are no such thing. They come from English speaking homes, but attended bilingual preschools. Anecdotally, I have heard from native Spanish speaking parents that estimate that as many as a third of those SD PK kids come from English speaking homes. I also know from first-hand accounts that kids who come from Spanish speaking homes have been shut out of Oyster’s lottery year after year b/c many of the spaces are being filled by dishonest parents who are savvy enough to game the system (while the principal looks the other way). If Monica has been unwilling to enforce the SD rule at Oyster (google it—the definition for SD at Oyster does exist), why would anyone trust that she will do so at a citywide magnet? Those same dishonest, English speaking parents will just apply to the magnet and their “Spanish dominant” child will pass that test as well. |
Anonymous
Is this the OA rule for Spanish dominant? It's what I found, and looks right. "A child is considered "Spanish-dominant" if his or her native tongue is Spanish, meaning that Spanish is the principal language spoken in the child's home and the child is demonstrably more comfortable speaking Spanish than speaking any other language. In addition, to be considered "Spanish-dominant" a child must demonstrate age-appropriate language and linguistic development in Spanish.” |
Anonymous
Yes, that's it! |
Anonymous
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I agree with previous posters who point out that a 50/50
Spanish and English dominant language split is not an end in itself. The idea of making PK and K fully Spanish immersion would help to jump start the bilingual program. If they could find one extra room at the Oyster campus, I would add another PK class so everyone would have a better chance at a good start in Spanish. |
Anonymous
| ^^ Hate to brake it to you, but that standard represents an ideal that simply does not exist. I live in a Latino apartment building with immigrant families. The adults all speak Spanish. The kids still speak English. They may have been truly spanish dominant as infants and toddlers, but by preschool age, they're surprisingly English dom. I don't understand it myself, but it is what it is. Maybe Oyster should focus on attracting speakers with native fluency, regardless of how they achieved it. Clearly if some American family is resourceful enough that they're kids can pass a test checking for native fluency in Spanish, they bring something to the table- the ability to foster and support Spanish fluency. Isn't that the goal to begin with? |
Anonymous
However, bilingual kids who come from Spanish speaking homes (even if they prefer to speak English) bring vocabulary and cultural references/experiences that bilingual children (from English speaking homes) simply do not have in their background. I would much rather have the bilingual child from a Spanish speaking home occupying those “Spanish dominant” seats, than a bilingual child from an English speaking home. My child will learn much more that way. |
Anonymous
| ^^ Hate to brake it to you, but you're incorrect. As other posters have pointed out, in programs with no "native" speakers, the kids still achieve proficiency. So fluent native speakers aren't a requirement to begin with. I'd much rather have my child learn with kids that speak the language. Simple. You can grow up in a Spanish home all you want, if you speak English, whereas the American kid who learned Spanish enthusiastically speaks Spanish, you'll speak English. I want my kid learning from the enthusiastic American native speaker. My kid will learn more that way. If it makes you feel better, let's pretend like the American kid learned to salsa and eats beans every night. |
Anonymous
How do you know what a bilingual kid from an English household has in their background? I'm Peruvian and only speak Spanish to my grandparents. My husband who learned Spanish in college uses his Spanish more than me and, I hate to say, is much better than I am. Trust me, you want your child to learn from him versus me and I'm the "native" Latina. See what happens when you stereotype? You misjudge. Be careful with that. |