WHY does the Catholic Church make things so damn difficult?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I have no issue with going to church regularly, taking the class, filling out the forms etc. My church has now changed their rules twice regarding what they expect from the godparents, which is tough when you're dealing with busy people and have to have them run around three separate times to abide by the new rules. And we can't even get a baptism date on the books until all of this stuff is completed, which makes it hard for me for planning purposes with out of town grandparents. How hard would it to be to just let us reserve the date in advance, especially in light of the fact that they changed the requirements on us multiple times!!! Sigh..

That does sound like a pain and I agree with you! But you should know that this is your church in particular. These things are left to the discretion of parishes and individual priests. I am a godparent to several and have four kids and have never taken a class nor have I had to go out of my way to prove anything.

[Anonymous]

The reason is b/c the Catholic Church is totally our of touch with reality and everyday modern life. That's why! And if they don't embrace gay marriage, contraceptives, and all the other things that make life nicer, they are going to become extinct. It's like Kodak, if you can't keep up with the times, you are going to go under.

[Anonymous]

I highly doubt the Catholic Church is going anywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I highly doubt the Catholic Church is going anywhere.

I agree. It has withstood much more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:edit
WHILE ignoring the problems

Anonymous wrote:I make sense.

Those who just keep the peace w/o ignoring any of the problems are enablers.

If you don't question the church, you're basically excusing all the sexual predators hidden by those high up. I am probably more religious than many of you, as my culture cannot be separated from Catholicism. In fact, we "corner" the Catholic market!

However, when I encounter such "devout" Catholics - like you, PP - who question those of us who want the church to change for the better, I do indeed think I'm surrounded by religious zealots.

So b/c I want to help change the church for the better - b/c we should all move forward/evolve, right, PP? - I should leave instead?

Soon you'll be one of a 100 Catholics left b/c of your blind faith.

And...let the Catholic bashing begin. I'm the first of the PPs you quoted and I agree with you that we need to hold the Church accountable for the sex abuse scandal and coverup. What you are questioning though, are tenets of faith and those are the basis for Catholicism. "Changing the Church for the better" is not reclassifying godparents as people who would raise your children if you died, and excusing them from the responsibility of knowing, understanding and raising your child in the Church. That's a convenience factor on your part.

I'm not a perfect Catholic. In this day and age I believe its stance on birth control is wrong and it's time to allow women to serve as priests. Yet, I do respectfully believe that you are misguided in what you are addressing as needing change.

As a correction to others, Catholics are not required to tithe. Many parishes don't even require anything more besides being a registered member of the parish before providing a letter for the godparents -- a pretty big "loophole". Other more conservative parishes might require far more but tithing is not a term or practice in Catholicism -- although they seek money the same way any church or organization does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been attend mass with my partner's family on holidays and special events for almost 20 years. I've watched the Catholic church become more and more closed to non-members. I was baptized Lutheran, and used to be welcome to take communion. Not anymore. And I've heard the Holiday Homily ("Why is it so crowded today? Oh, right. It's Easter. You should be ashamed.") several times over the past few years. I used to put $5 in the basket, but I don't anymore.

If you were baptized in the Lutheran church, then it was never ok for you to take communion in the Catholic Church.

^^^PP here, back to add that unless you received the Sacrament of Communion in the Catholic Church (and no other church), it was never ok for you to take communion in the Catholic Church.

Yeah. Because, you know, the Catholic church can afford to be picky.

Really, it is the faith. I don't understand why it is hard to fathom that if you don't believe that when you receive communion it is truly the Body and Blood of Christ, you shouldn't be receiving it. Why does someone want to participate in something they don't believe?

I am Lutheran and believe that the communion is the Body and Blood of Christ, when it is consecrated by my (Lutheran) pastor. The process of it changing from bread/wine to body/blood is called consubstantiation, meaning the physical elements are present with the body and blood.

Despite this belief, the RCC takes the view that I am not entitled to receive communion, because I am not a practicing Catholic.

Communion is the birthright of the baptized, according to the Bible and Christ Himself. Therefore I go to communion when I am in a Catholic church - just as a Catholic may receive in my church.

I was so sad when I discovered the local geographic parish was Opus Dei. Had been normal Catholic Church and changed...not fair when parishes are geographical . They have boundaries like public schools.

[Anonymous]

PP, where are you? The Washington Archdiocese isn't geographical. Besides, there is no such thing as Opeu Dei church. Are you talking about St. Catherine's? Many churches have Opis Dei, some more active than others, but the an entire parish isn't Opis Dei. Even St. Catherine's, probably the most well known Opus Dei around has 3500 parishioners- lot, in fact the majority aren't OD. Regardless, just go to the parish you would like to attend and speak to them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I am Lutheran and believe that the communion is the Body and Blood of Christ, when it is consecrated by my (Lutheran) pastor. The process of it changing from bread/wine to body/blood is called consubstantiation, meaning the physical elements are present with the body and blood.

Despite this belief, the RCC takes the view that I am not entitled to receive communion, because I am not a practicing Catholic.

Actually I'd say it is BECAUSE of this belief that you are denied communion by the Roman Catholic church. They believe in TRANsubstantiation not CONsubstantiation. Consubstantiation is heretical!

Yes, I know. As a cradle Catholic, I know. Consubstantiation, transubstantiation, the effect is the same.

You know that part of the Mass where they say, "Lord I am not worthy to receive you..."? That was added AFTER the Reformation - to remind Catholics that THIS and not THAT is the real thing.

Shall we discuss how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been attend mass with my partner's family on holidays and special events for almost 20 years. I've watched the Catholic church become more and more closed to non-members. I was baptized Lutheran, and used to be welcome to take communion. Not anymore. And I've heard the Holiday Homily ("Why is it so crowded today? Oh, right. It's Easter. You should be ashamed.") several times over the past few years. I used to put $5 in the basket, but I don't anymore.

If you were baptized in the Lutheran church, then it was never ok for you to take communion in the Catholic Church.

^^^PP here, back to add that unless you received the Sacrament of Communion in the Catholic Church (and no other church), it was never ok for you to take communion in the Catholic Church.

Yeah. Because, you know, the Catholic church can afford to be picky.

Really, it is the faith. I don't understand why it is hard to fathom that if you don't believe that when you receive communion it is truly the Body and Blood of Christ, you shouldn't be receiving it. Why does someone want to participate in something they don't believe?

I am Lutheran and believe that the communion is the Body and Blood of Christ, when it is consecrated by my (Lutheran) pastor. The process of it changing from bread/wine to body/blood is called consubstantiation, meaning the physical elements are present with the body and blood.

Despite this belief, the RCC takes the view that I am not entitled to receive communion, because I am not a practicing Catholic.

Communion is the birthright of the baptized, according to the Bible and Christ Himself. Therefore I go to communion when I am in a Catholic church - just as a Catholic may receive in my church.

I was so sad when I discovered the local geographic parish was Opus Dei. Had been normal Catholic Church and changed...not fair when parishes are geographical . They have boundaries like public schools.

There have been so many misstatements regarding the Church in this thread (tithing??), and here is another one. There are no Opus Dei parishes. There is no such thing. Perhaps Opus Dei members are active in a parish, but Opus Dei does not run parishes. That is not part of their mission.

OP, there is a distinction between logistical difficulties and doctrinal disputes. The logistics of the sacraments can be tricky, depending on the parish, though they are almost always based on a doctrinal reason. Godparents in the Church have a specific role in the faith, and the Church is obligated to ensure they can fulfill that role, for example. That being said, I have never encountered unreasonable difficulty in any of the parishes we have attended over the years.

Doctrinal disputes are separate. If you do not believe in the Real Presence, what are you doing baptizing your child in a faith that professes the Real Presence to be true? How can you stand in front of family and friends and God and profess a faith you do not share?

Catholic is not a culture or ethnicity. It is a faith. And not just any faith, but one that professes to be God's own authority, instituted by Christ Himself, universal truth, and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it.

You have free will. Exercise it. If you want the Church to bend to your will, acknowledge that is not how it works and move on. By definition, Church teaching on essential matters of revelation and morality is TRUE, otherwise, the Church would not be standing for it. People have died for the sake of these truths. Respect the Church and be true to yourself and don't swear to something you don't believe.

[Anonymous]

Wait - so not only do they have to prove they go to church every week, they have to prove that they give money to their church every week? Is there a minimum? This is blackmail!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wait - so not only do they have to prove they go to church every week, they have to prove that they give money to their church every week? Is there a minimum? This is blackmail!

No, as many people have replied there is absolutely no requirement in any Catholic church to give money each week in order to be a Godparent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's the actual tithing requirement? I was raised Catholic and never heard Catholics refer to "tithing" -- I thought that was more of a Protestant term. We had a collection of course, and there were envelopes, but I never heard of "tithing".

Anyhow -- is there a certain amount you are expected to tithe, weekly, for 3 months, that qualifies you to be a godparent? Because for someone who isn't much of an observant Catholic, but who nevertheless wants to be considered as a Godparent, seems it would be easy enough in those big impersonal churches (and there are many now with the priest shortage) to use make sure someone drops in the correct sized donation every week into the collection basket.

The best thing about ridiculous rules is that there are so many ways to circumvent them.

There is absolutely no tithing requirement. There is a requirement that you are a practicing catholic, which is shown by a letter from your parish. Some parishes require that they know you have been attending mass in order to sign such a letter. One way of show mass attendance is putting an envelope in the collection. It can be an empty envelope and it counts.

Not IME. There was a requirement for our Godparents. Besides who would put an 'empty' envelope in the collection? I'll add that I knew someone who quit the church because after her husband died unexpectedly the church came asking for more money. There are some 'bad apples' in the church for sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's the actual tithing requirement? I was raised Catholic and never heard Catholics refer to "tithing" -- I thought that was more of a Protestant term. We had a collection of course, and there were envelopes, but I never heard of "tithing".

Anyhow -- is there a certain amount you are expected to tithe, weekly, for 3 months, that qualifies you to be a godparent? Because for someone who isn't much of an observant Catholic, but who nevertheless wants to be considered as a Godparent, seems it would be easy enough in those big impersonal churches (and there are many now with the priest shortage) to use make sure someone drops in the correct sized donation every week into the collection basket.

The best thing about ridiculous rules is that there are so many ways to circumvent them.

There is absolutely no tithing requirement. There is a requirement that you are a practicing catholic, which is shown by a letter from your parish. Some parishes require that they know you have been attending mass in order to sign such a letter. One way of show mass attendance is putting an envelope in the collection. It can be an empty envelope and it counts.

Not IME. There was a requirement for our Godparents. Besides who would put an 'empty' envelope in the collection? I'll add that I knew someone who quit the church because after her husband died unexpectedly the church came asking for more money. There are some 'bad apples' in the church for sure.

What parish did this? Requiring Godparents to give money is completely at odds with the teaching of the church. And I know plenty of people who have put in empty envelopes for a variety of reasons.

[Anonymous]

Yikes, I am sad when a Lutheran doesn't understand the difference between communion in a Catholic Church and a Lutheran church. That is a pretty big point to miss.

[Anonymous]

Why would anyone put in an empty envelope?