Defining characteristic of your ASD child?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, parents are not making that distinction, neuropsychologists are. A group of them actually who authored the book, "Misdiagnosis." These neuropsychologists studied the difference between Aspergers children and Gifted Non-Aspergers children and their obsessions.

Maybe it's time to look at the reality that some children have indeed been misdiagnosed.

I never said that children haven't been misdiagnosed. I only said it is BS that children with AS won't engage with others who share their obsessions. I live in that world, I have a son with Aspergers, I know plenty of parents of children with Aspergers. One has a child who is obsessed with trains (which is why I came up with that example) and shares his obsession with other kids with AS who love trains. He isn't all that gifted but he absolutely has AS and absolutely engages in reciprocal friendships over this special interest.

I realize you have this issue you keep promoting and I am not going to argue with you about your underlying point. but there is this mistaken search for the holy grail factor that distinguishes kids with AS and the fact is that the diagnosis is always multifactural and no two kids with AS are alike. i remember thinking my DS couldn't possibly have an ASD because he didn't line up his toys. I had read somewhere that this was "the" distinction. There is no "the" distinction.

Personally, I've never found neuropsychs to be that good with ASDs -- they tend to focus on the minutia and miss the big picture. I'm sure there are some that get it, but obviously not teh ones who wrote this book.

Engage may not mean the same as having social reciprocity. Aspergers children may not be as inclined to entertain another's opinions or viewpoints even if it is pertaining to their obsession. They may simply enjoy discussing theirs. That's engagement but that's not social reciprocity. Social reciprocity is listening, hearing, replying, and having a discussion that may not be your choice to talk about. And the authors of this book state that Aspergers children who are engaging in social reciprocity with others over their obsession are not likely to have Aspergers to begin with. They may have been misdiagnosed. That doesn't sound like BS to me but you're definitely allowed to hold a different opinion. And lining up toys is a symptom of autism and not one of the criteria in the DSM, just like hand flapping is also a symptom. Doesn't mean a child has ASD, as there are kids who flap and line up toys and they're not ASD at all.

This is a great post. Social communication deficits are THE core symptom of autism and Asperger's. I was listening to a researcher talk the other day, and they were saying one of the most reliable ways to tell another in a young child whether it was a developmental order like language vs. autism was the child's joint attention and ability to read nonverbal cues. It holds up in study after study.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: This is from Tony Attwood, the Asperberger's specialist. Note that it takes 80 of the symptoms to get an actual Asperger's Diagnosis. There are lots and lots of self-diagnosed people who misunderstand that they have some Asperger's traits, but not actual Asperger's. Then their are clinicians simply not following the guidelines strictly. Not that a totally NT will have at least 10 autism traits.

http://parentingaspergers.com/blog/parents-issues/tony-attwood-on-aspergers-syndrome/

The 100 Piece Autism Spectrum Jigsaw Puzzle
Tony talked about the diagnosis process as being a jigsaw puzzle, here’s what he said about making a diagnosis:
“It’s almost like having a mental check-list that you’re identifying. Now, all the characteristics of Asperger’s exist in the ordinary population. A typical person who is not perfect at reading body language, doesn’t have hundreds of friends, who may not like the noise when you note down on the blackboard, etcetera. So, what makes the condition significant is not a unique characteristic but the strength and dominance and effect of certain characteristics. So we’re doing a check-list of them. Now I say that it’s like completing a 100-piece jigsaw puzzle and there are certain essential social relatedness bits and pieces. But 80 or more pieces of the 100-piece jigsaw puzzle makes the diagnosis.
I’ve never met anyone with all 100, but I’ve never met a typical person with less than 10. So basically, I’m counting them up through the assessment, but the issue then incurs if it’s 80 or more to be diagnosed, what do you do with someone who got say, 70 to 80 pieces? So more than the ordinary population, but not quite enough to confirm the diagnosis. They’re in a grey area, what we call sub-clinical, but may still benefit from some of the strategies for the fragments that they have. So that sort of person I would say they have fragments of Asperger’s syndrome and need help for the fragments they have.”

But from your own quote--there is a grey area and may describe many kids diagnosed with AS but don't fully meet the clinical definition and they would benefit from some of the same treatment/supports, according to Tony. Sounds like that is what parents and doctors are doing--helping their children regardless if they meet 70 or 90% of the assessment.

[Anonymous]

I'd say you treat the symptoms, but stop trying to claim they have Asperger's.

[Anonymous]

Mine (HFA) has social deficits (ie lack of social reciprocity, inconsistent eye contact, obssesions,) and anxiety that significantly impair his ability to interact with the world and others around him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I'd say you treat the symptoms, but stop trying to claim they have Asperger's.

You will not get an IEP or supports and services at school with only "symptoms" and unless you have a diagnosis, no insurance will pay for any of it or give even a partial reimbursement. "Treating the symptoms" can be very expensive.

So if you want to avoid an Asperger's diagnosis then pay $$$$, the price you pay for "avoiding the stigma" - and it's almost always about avoiding the "label". "Gifted" is so much more acceptable than Asperger's/ASD...

Also, think about what you'll tell your child when they get older and realize that they could have gotten support, services and help at school but you chose to ignore and deny they had problems and let them flounder. My cousin had to answer that for her 16 yr old recently and it wasn't pretty.

[Anonymous]

Again, this is why we have a false autism epidemic....people try to get a diagnosis just for the services. For a young child, there's always developmental delay. For an older child in the new DSM, there will be Social Communication Disorder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Again, this is why we have a false autism epidemic....people try to get a diagnosis just for the services. For a young child, there's always developmental delay. For an older child in the new DSM, there will be Social Communication Disorder.

Really? I've not met one person who purposefully got a false diagnosis simply to scam insurance or to acquire services at school for their child. You should report the developmental pediatrician, psychologist, etc. to the medical board if you know of any who actually does this b/c it's malpractice and fraud and they will lose their license to practice and can be criminally charged.

[Anonymous]

http://autismandoughtisms.wordpress.com/2011/07/22/ill-call-a-kid-a-zebra-recognising-fashionable-autism/

Those good doctors are like the ones spoken about in Richard Grinker’s book “Unstrange Minds.” A quote from one such doctor in his book: “I am incredibly disciplined in the diagnostic classifications in my research, but in my private practice, I’ll call a kid a zebra if it will get him the educational services I think he needs.”


And google the LA Times series where parents fight for the label. Seriously, these stories are everywhere now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I'd say you treat the symptoms, but stop trying to claim they have Asperger's.

Stop it, stop it stop it. you have never met my DC, you have no right to judge his diagnosis (which has been given to him by several clinicians with a hell of a lot more expertise than you.) Do you have any idea how offensive it is to those of us with children with Aspergers who have to work our asses off to help them have any kind of reasonable future, only to have idiots like you judge us? Based on nothing? And don't come back and say you are only judging the ones who are misdiagnosed because you have no right to make that determination, based on a few sentences on a thread.

And for the record, we get NO services from the city. My DS goes to a private school and we pay for his interventions, taking what little our insurance company will reimburse. We have spent an enormous amount of money over the years

Did you know that people with Aspergers have elevated rates of depression and suicide, especially suicide? Do you have any idea what kind of fears we live with every day? While you sit back and judge, judge, judge.

yes, I am angry. And you are an asshole.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:http://autismandoughtisms.wordpress.com/2011/07/22/ill-call-a-kid-a-zebra-recognising-fashionable-autism/

Those good doctors are like the ones spoken about in Richard Grinker’s book “Unstrange Minds.” A quote from one such doctor in his book: “I am incredibly disciplined in the diagnostic classifications in my research, but in my private practice, I’ll call a kid a zebra if it will get him the educational services I think he needs.”


And google the LA Times series where parents fight for the label. Seriously, these stories are everywhere now.

? And? So the kid needs these services and is getting it. What's wrong with that? Would you rather he not get the services he needs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'd say you treat the symptoms, but stop trying to claim they have Asperger's.

You will not get an IEP or supports and services at school with only "symptoms" and unless you have a diagnosis, no insurance will pay for any of it or give even a partial reimbursement. "Treating the symptoms" can be very expensive.

So if you want to avoid an Asperger's diagnosis then pay $$$$, the price you pay for "avoiding the stigma" - and it's almost always about avoiding the "label". "Gifted" is so much more acceptable than Asperger's/ASD...

Also, think about what you'll tell your child when they get older and realize that they could have gotten support, services and help at school but you chose to ignore and deny they had problems and let them flounder. My cousin had to answer that for her 16 yr old recently and it wasn't pretty.

Giftedness is certainly not interchangeable with Asperger's. A parent would really want to figure that out for the sake of his/her child's future.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'd say you treat the symptoms, but stop trying to claim they have Asperger's.

Stop it, stop it stop it. you have never met my DC, you have no right to judge his diagnosis (which has been given to him by several clinicians with a hell of a lot more expertise than you.) Do you have any idea how offensive it is to those of us with children with Aspergers who have to work our asses off to help them have any kind of reasonable future, only to have idiots like you judge us? Based on nothing? And don't come back and say you are only judging the ones who are misdiagnosed because you have no right to make that determination, based on a few sentences on a thread.

And for the record, we get NO services from the city. My DS goes to a private school and we pay for his interventions, taking what little our insurance company will reimburse. We have spent an enormous amount of money over the years

Did you know that people with Aspergers have elevated rates of depression and suicide, especially suicide? Do you have any idea what kind of fears we live with every day? While you sit back and judge, judge, judge.

Okay cut it out. Cut out the profanity. If this discussion makes you so emotional that you can't control yourself from spewing profanity just leave the discussion then. Nobody is forcing you to change your position.

I don't think it is appropriate to label children as Aspergers simply to treat their symptoms if they dont' meet the real diagnosis. Many many doctors will dx a child with Aspergers in order for the child to get services, however. This is a known fact. I'm very sorry for the rates of depression and suicide among people with Aspergers but again if they truly have Aspergers they'll get the dx and then are entitled to services. But if they merely have symptoms, as my DS does, and are not Aspergers, I need to and should pay out of pocket.

yes, I am angry. And you are an asshole.

[Anonymous]

oops, my quoting got messed up a bit...I am NOT calling anyone an asshole!!

[Anonymous]

The defining characteristic of my autistic child is neuroinflammation as evidenced by abnormally elevated quinolinic acid, an excitatory brain peptide produced by activated CNS microglia. This excitotoxin has greatly impacted her temporal lobes affecting language (poor receptive and expressive), and motor skills and she has made slow progress despite many hours of ABA. It's not clear what caused her neuroinflammation, but it is clear that this is a neurinflammatory disorder that needs attention from the medical establishment, not the psychologists.