Defining characteristic of your ASD child?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:oops forgot to add..can a child get an asd diagnosis if all they have is an obsession and no social deficits?

My DS, 4, who has good eye contact, is not shy, etc. has social deficits and it's obvious when he is interacting with his peers. He simply is not at their social level: the most glaring example was when he started preK and could count, sing songs, name body parts etc within the first month of school all in Mandarin Chinese when he's never had any exposure previously but could not tell me the name of a single person in his classroom including the teachers.

He loves to classify and categorize and notices the minutest details. He can tell you where are the broken light bulbs that need replacing in every place we have ever visited and will comment on it if and when it's been replaced. Definitely someone who see the trees (individual leaves in his case) and not the forest.

Yeah, he's creative. Most of his current play involves designing different types of elevators.

PP, so these are designs of elevators that have never existed?? Can you describe a few types?

[Anonymous]

OP here. In Table 1 the characteristics of giftedness seem to describe DS more. He has friends but not many. He is a very abstract thinker. He is cognitively ahead of his peers. He is obsessed with anything mechanical or electronic. He designs never before designed features on various electronic objects. He writes creative stories. He has no problem jumping into the shoes of others and knowing what they may be feeling. BUT- that said, he does wander in the classroom. Not aimlessly, but to check out different things in the classroom. He needs to be told five times to do his work. He is troublesome for teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:oops forgot to add..can a child get an asd diagnosis if all they have is an obsession and no social deficits?

My DS, 4, who has good eye contact, is not shy, etc. has social deficits and it's obvious when he is interacting with his peers. He simply is not at their social level: the most glaring example was when he started preK and could count, sing songs, name body parts etc within the first month of school all in Mandarin Chinese when he's never had any exposure previously but could not tell me the name of a single person in his classroom including the teachers.

He loves to classify and categorize and notices the minutest details. He can tell you where are the broken light bulbs that need replacing in every place we have ever visited and will comment on it if and when it's been replaced. Definitely someone who see the trees (individual leaves in his case) and not the forest.

Yeah, he's creative. Most of his current play involves designing different types of elevators.

PP, so these are designs of elevators that have never existed?? Can you describe a few types?

?!? Elevators made out of 'goo' where he sends aliens into outer space. These are freight elevators and only DS is allowed to operate the buttons... Like I said, he's 4. I try hard to avoid this topic because frankly, it Makes me insane. Thankfully, his temperament is easy going. He's a nice kid and can be redirected/transitioned with little fuss.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. In Table 1 the characteristics of giftedness seem to describe DS more. He has friends but not many. He is a very abstract thinker. He is cognitively ahead of his peers. He is obsessed with anything mechanical or electronic. He designs never before designed features on various electronic objects. He writes creative stories. He has no problem jumping into the shoes of others and knowing what they may be feeling. BUT- that said, he does wander in the classroom. Not aimlessly, but to check out different things in the classroom. He needs to be told five times to do his work. He is troublesome for teachers.

My 4 yr old use to wander the classroom too - seemingly checking things, looking in drawers, turtles in the tank, etc. but not attending or participating in what's going on or doing what he's suppose to be doing unless he is given one-on-one direction/assistance by a teacher. In his case, the behavior is due to Asperger's and really has nothing to do with being 'gifted'. AS kids need a smaller classroom with lots of individualized attention and prompting; was the main reason, we and our developmental pediatrician weren't sure DS could stay at a mainstream school/classroom no matter his high IQ.

[Anonymous]

OP here. My DS also needs lots of one on one instruction to get work done. But he says it's because he finds the work boring. He is in a mainstream classroom and eventually and GRUDGINGLY gets most work completed. He got his end of the year report card and got the top grade for all subjects except lang arts, for which he got a "B." If something interests DS, he can concentrate easily for long periods of time. His creative writing stories are very vivid and imaginative. The teacher pulled a couple of his stories as evidence that he should be in the GT program. But teachers dislike having to deal with his issues. He argues with them incessantly over things he wants to do. He'll get hungry 20 min before snack time and argue to no end to get his snack earlier than the other kids. His hands will be cold at recess and he will argue to no end to go back into the school to get his gloves. He drives teachers nuts. Teachers hate it when he wanders around the room also. He definitely perseverates over his electronic stuff...thinks about it for hours and hours a day. He will design new features around these objects such as a phone with a built in high powered projector to replace his school's smart boards or a foldable, flexible laptop that doesn't break when it gets wet or is dropped. He researches different kinds of materials that can be used for these on google. We later learned that these are already being researched by different companies but DS had no way of knowing that. Is this giftedness? And what about the wandering and needing lots of redirection and prompting to get work done in class and also his perseverative interest, is that Aspergers??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And what about the wandering and needing lots of redirection and prompting to get work done in class and also his perseverative interest, is that Aspergers??

That is part of Aspergers. The rigidity (always having to be right), problems with transitions. Many AD kids have difficulty with executive functioning according to DS's neuropsych and having problems with self control, impulsivity/delayed gratification, ability to deal with frustration and boredom can and will affect academic outcome matter how bright the child. She, like our developmental pediatrician, suggested a small nurturing mainstream private school for DS while the developmental pediatrician suggested Auburn.

So far with DS's IEP in place, DS is doing great. Does not wander, has friends, is fully engaged and participates iclark activities. He has no behavior issues and is genuinely liked and supported by his teachers and staff. If I felt DS was not being supported and liked by his teachers, I would feel the school was a bad fit and would move him.

[Anonymous]

OP, everything you've written sounds like Aspergers to me. But none of us can diagnose your DS over the internet. I do know that the psychologist you've seen sounds really misguided. You should see a developmental pediatrician for a full evaluation.

[Anonymous]

OP again...but I'mconfused because PP provided links which stated that highly gifted-non Aspergers children may also have obsessive interests and be argumentative. And we did see Dr. Conlon's office (dev ped) who said he had ADHD, not Aspergers, because he was too warm and sociable to be on the autism spectrum. But when speaking to parents whose children do have ASD, they always say my DS looks to be Aspergers. So you can see why DH and I are confused.

[Anonymous]

Go with Conlon. I took our 4 yr old to Shapiro and got an Asperger's diagnosis. His school and the team at Children's also came up with AS. Like you, however, the other parents with AS kids including a relative with a 16 yr old Aspie tell me, they don't think he has AS b/c he's very social and engaging with them, good eye contact, etc Well, he's always been great with adults... Doesn't matter. Treat the deficits. The main disadvantage for ADHD vs ASD is you will only get 504 accommodations rather than an IEP. But depending on the supports your school can provide, it may not matter. My kid gets a social skills group 3-4x a wk at school that's very helpful but anyone can participate not only kids with SNs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP again...but I'mconfused because PP provided links which stated that highly gifted-non Aspergers children may also have obsessive interests and be argumentative. And we did see Dr. Conlon's office (dev ped) who said he had ADHD, not Aspergers, because he was too warm and sociable to be on the autism spectrum. But when speaking to parents whose children do have ASD, they always say my DS looks to be Aspergers. So you can see why DH and I are confused.

OP, I am PP who posted about being gifted. Your son may be 2E, twice exceptional, which is also discussed on the website I previously posted. I think you should consider both angles, meaning your child is gifted and has ADHD (or Asperger's). Dr. Conlon is very good at diagnosing ASD (in my opinion) so he may be correct--you can always seek another opinion. Also, a child can have Asperger's traits (autistic phenotype) and not have enough traits to meet the full criteria for ASD. See: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/making-sense-autistic-spectrum-disorders/201008/017-losing-the-asd-diagnosis-does-not-equal-cur

My son does meet all of the criteria for AS but also has a high IQ; the psychologist we work with thinks he will have a good outcome because of his IQ and his interest are science based and practical/can translate to the real world, i.e. career/job. So if my son continues to be obsessed/interested in similar subject areas and if the research on IQ and outcomes is correct (see link in previous paragraph for more info), I have hope that that he will be okay when I'm gone (I worry the most about this). I have noticed as DS gets older, some of stims, and other noticeable behavior problems (transitions) has improved or disappeared, just as doctors/therapists have predicted. Still "quirky" and atypical socially, but not as noticeable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP again...but I'mconfused because PP provided links which stated that highly gifted-non Aspergers children may also have obsessive interests and be argumentative. And we did see Dr. Conlon's office (dev ped) who said he had ADHD, not Aspergers, because he was too warm and sociable to be on the autism spectrum. But when speaking to parents whose children do have ASD, they always say my DS looks to be Aspergers. So you can see why DH and I are confused.

OP, I am PP who posted about being gifted. Your son may be 2E, twice exceptional, which is also discussed on the website I previously posted. I think you should consider both angles, meaning your child is gifted and has ADHD (or Asperger's). Dr. Conlon is very good at diagnosing ASD (in my opinion) so he may be correct--you can always seek another opinion. Also, a child can have Asperger's traits (autistic phenotype) and not have enough traits to meet the full criteria for ASD. See: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/making-sense-autistic-spectrum-disorders/201008/017-losing-the-asd-diagnosis-does-not-equal-cur

My son does meet all of the criteria for AS but also has a high IQ; the psychologist we work with thinks he will have a good outcome because of his IQ and his interest are science based and practical/can translate to the real world, i.e. career/job. So if my son continues to be obsessed/interested in similar subject areas and if the research on IQ and outcomes is correct (see link in previous paragraph for more info), I have hope that that he will be okay when I'm gone (I worry the most about this). I have noticed as DS gets older, some of stims, and other noticeable behavior problems (transitions) has improved or disappeared, just as doctors/therapists have predicted. Still "quirky" and atypical socially, but not as noticeable.

I hit submit too soon: I described my son to make the point not to panic, some of the behaviors may go away on their own and others can be worked on using social skills and behavioral training (which my son receives). Your child sounds very bright, and I think the research is correct about IQ and outcomes, consider Temple Grandin who has classic autism.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Admittedly some of his odd behaviors have gone away. At age 2 he was obsessed with fans and at age 4 he was obsessed with locks. Now all those unusual obsessions have gone away. All that is left is his passion for all things mechanical and electrical. He can talk about different subjects and when he does he sounds like any other kid. But he prefers to talk about his obsession. But now that my child is 8, I doubt many of his quirks will go away. I'm thinking his brain is not as malleable as it was when he was 2 years old. So the way he is now is probably the way he will be as an adult.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Interesting reads. My DS (now 6) was evaluated in preschool by FCPS child find. Both FCPS, and the play therapist we had been working with felt that there was a strong chance he had Asperger Syndrome. From what I knew as an educator myself, I tended to agree. We saw a Developmental Pediatrician, who in addition to looking at all the evaluation pieces from the county (which involved some cog. testing, speect/hearing, 90 min observation by the psych, long questionnaires for teachers and parents) met with us alone, and met with ds (who at that visit remained almost entirely under the chair). Though she felt he had some Asperger characteristics, she felt he did not have AS. Her reasons were that ds 1) had a strong desire for joint attention/sharing his ideas and 2)Had a strong amount of expression in his voice and his face... He has STRONG obsessions. He has been on Egypt for many months now, every single drawing/school paper that came home had some egypt theme to it. Every day at recess he plays "Egypt". He has major attention issues, poor eye contact as well. I am not sure how it will pan out, I still think very possibly he has AS, but I think sometimes, it is hard to tell when they are little? He has had a good year with an IEP, and one in place for 1st.

These do not rule out Aspergers!

[Anonymous]

Most Aspergers children can not stop sharing THEIR ideas. It's other people's ideas they don't dwell on as much.

I think the tell tale aspect of Aspergers is what is stated in that book, "Misdiagnosis" which distinguishes Aspergers from other gifted children is social reciprocity. The authors, who are neuropsychologists, state that when Aspergers children who have obsessions are placed with other children who have the same obsession, they STILL could not have normal typical social interaction about that obsession. But when gifted individuals who have obsessions and were thought to have Aspergers were placed with other children who shared their obsession, they suddenly had very typical social reciprocity about that subject.

So gifted individuals may have obsessions too and they may appear as having Aspergers when they don't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most Aspergers children can not stop sharing THEIR ideas. It's other people's ideas they don't dwell on as much.

I think the tell tale aspect of Aspergers is what is stated in that book, "Misdiagnosis" which distinguishes Aspergers from other gifted children is social reciprocity. The authors, who are neuropsychologists, state that when Aspergers children who have obsessions are placed with other children who have the same obsession, they STILL could not have normal typical social interaction about that obsession. But when gifted individuals who have obsessions and were thought to have Aspergers were placed with other children who shared their obsession, they suddenly had very typical social reciprocity about that subject.

So gifted individuals may have obsessions too and they may appear as having Aspergers when they don't.

My DS will have "reciprocity" with another child who shares his interests and he absolutely has AS. Put two kids who have AS who are obsessed with trains together and watch them go at it. I've seen it happen. Which is all to say, this distinction is just BS, sorry. And it points out why parents should not be the ones to make these distinctions, professionals (who know what they are talking about -- not OP's psychologist) should.

I think the progression of OP's child's special interests are very consistent with AS. My DS went from light switches to calendars to video games to music.