Am so angry at Inova Fairfax Hospital and Dr. Al-Khouatley

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op-again sorry the human race is full of insensitive assholes. Glad to hear you are going to talk to the doctor at your next visit. But don't let these pathetic fools judge you. You are better than all of them and their kids will be working for your child one day.

If anyone else feels like continuing being an asshole, consider for a minute how you would feel if someone was as dismissive at you over something you cared about? Doesn't matter if you agree or disagree with the OP but do you really have to act like such a bitch?

Possible that the nasty responses may be from mostly one poster but more likely it is from a nurse or nurses or someone close to Dr. Al-Khouatley's group. The poster/posters are getting very defensive regarding the OP voicing her opinion of how things went during her labor and delivery. [code]

I was thinking the same thing - the nasty posts (the bulk of which I see were deleted) must have been from people close to that doctor and/or her practice. Who else would spew such bile over this thread?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP here - I have been following this thread with increasing disgust, and suspect the over the top nastiness comes mostly from one poster. At least I hope so, because this board can't possibly be that full of assholes! Although I have noticed in other threads that the anonymity of this forum really brings out the worst in people (supposing they put up a pretty good facade of civility in real life).

FWIW, I got a numbing injection before they put in the IV for my egg retrieval. Obviously, that was not an emergency. But it took all but a few seconds.

OP, I hope you manage to leave this behind you soon. It seems they were insensitive, but it is impossible for anybody here to know how pressing the emergency was. But even if it was pressing - while we all agree that the baby's health is paramount, they should make every effort not to traumatize the mother (and whatever is traumatizing to her - it's not for us to judge). If they don't have time to accommodate your requests, they should have the social skills to explain things to you as they move forward.

Me too. I'm the one who actually told her early on to file a complaint with the medical board. If something wasn't done right or the patient didn't have informed consent, that would be the reason. But this thread got out of hand in so many respects. I just reported a bunch of the posts because it's truly disgusting to read.

OP perhaps you don't want to go the medical board route and that's fine, but be prepared, doctor's offices never take responsibility for these kind of things, so your inquiry is likely to get you dismissed from the practice, I can almost guarantee it. That's just how doctors are. Too egomaniacal to be questioned.

Where did the physician violate the standard of care? Shooting someone up with lidocaine for an IV start is not normal and not doing so does not violate any standards of care. Likewise, OP herself stated she did not feel the incision so I'm really not sure why she says she was not numb for her C-section. If OP came across as less nutty, high maintenance and whiny she might garner more sympathy. The state medical board is only interested in egregious lapses in standards of care, not stories of entitled complaining over nothing.

Thanks for your awesome opinion. If its ok with you, I think it would be better if the op had a discussion with her doctor to review her concerns. Your expert judgment just doesn't really seem valid, especially since you weren't there nor are you a doctor. Btw every iv I've ever gotten has started with a lidocane injection to numb the area. Since you clearly have never had this type of experience than it must not be true right?

Actually, I'm a gastroenterologist. It is not standard of care to use lidocaine injections prior to starting IV's. Perhaps topical anesthetic agents for children but that's about it. OP is a drama queen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP here - I have been following this thread with increasing disgust, and suspect the over the top nastiness comes mostly from one poster. At least I hope so, because this board can't possibly be that full of assholes! Although I have noticed in other threads that the anonymity of this forum really brings out the worst in people (supposing they put up a pretty good facade of civility in real life).

FWIW, I got a numbing injection before they put in the IV for my egg retrieval. Obviously, that was not an emergency. But it took all but a few seconds.

OP, I hope you manage to leave this behind you soon. It seems they were insensitive, but it is impossible for anybody here to know how pressing the emergency was. But even if it was pressing - while we all agree that the baby's health is paramount, they should make every effort not to traumatize the mother (and whatever is traumatizing to her - it's not for us to judge). If they don't have time to accommodate your requests, they should have the social skills to explain things to you as they move forward.

Me too. I'm the one who actually told her early on to file a complaint with the medical board. If something wasn't done right or the patient didn't have informed consent, that would be the reason. But this thread got out of hand in so many respects. I just reported a bunch of the posts because it's truly disgusting to read.

OP perhaps you don't want to go the medical board route and that's fine, but be prepared, doctor's offices never take responsibility for these kind of things, so your inquiry is likely to get you dismissed from the practice, I can almost guarantee it. That's just how doctors are. Too egomaniacal to be questioned.

Where did the physician violate the standard of care? Shooting someone up with lidocaine for an IV start is not normal and not doing so does not violate any standards of care. Likewise, OP herself stated she did not feel the incision so I'm really not sure why she says she was not numb for her C-section. If OP came across as less nutty, high maintenance and whiny she might garner more sympathy. The state medical board is only interested in egregious lapses in standards of care, not stories of entitled complaining over nothing.

Thanks for your awesome opinion. If its ok with you, I think it would be better if the op had a discussion with her doctor to review her concerns. Your expert judgment just doesn't really seem valid, especially since you weren't there nor are you a doctor. Btw every iv I've ever gotten has started with a lidocane injection to numb the area. Since you clearly have never had this type of experience than it must not be true right?

Actually, I'm a gastroenterologist. It is not standard of care to use lidocaine injections prior to starting IV's. Perhaps topical anesthetic agents for children but that's about it. OP is a drama queen.

Oh, good god... Another warm and understanding soul in medicine! Not the OP, but I'm terrified of needles. And surgery. Frankly, I'm not sure how I managed not to be a "drama queen" during my c section. And to think I thought that doctors had seen it all.

[Anonymous]

Seems like a lot of people get lidocane before an iv. Some even said the iv really hurt. Are they all drama queens too?

http://community.babycenter.com/post/a21102575/lidocaine_before_an_iv?cpg=2&csi=2100083594&pd=0

[Anonymous]

NP here...disclosure - I'm an not affiliated with Perinatal Assoc (well, they delivered my baby, but I don't work there nor do I have a personal relationship with Dr. Al-Khouatley).

I think what some of the people who quickly came to the OP's defense are forgetting is that none of us were there when everything happened and we are solely relying on her version of what happened. I'm not saying she's lying, but we don't know how accurate her account is, what parts may be exaggerated, etc.

It's easy to come on an anonymous forum and write a negative post specifically naming a physician/practice. The problem is, the reverse is against the law. A physician/practice specifically naming a patient violates HIPAA. Even if she (Dr. Al-Khouatley) wanted to publicly defend herself here, she would be unable to do so without breaking the law.

Just some food for thought...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Seems like a lot of people get lidocane before an iv. Some even said the iv really hurt. Are they all drama queens too?

http://community.babycenter.com/post/a21102575/lidocaine_before_an_iv?cpg=2&csi=2100083594&pd=0

Yes.
Lidocaine really doesn't help that much. Its benefit is superficial and not effective below the dermal layer. EMLA, on the other hand, is much more effective but takes a lot longer to work. Personally, I think the lidocaine stings more than the IV.

[Anonymous]

I'm an RN and have worked for close to 20 years in a variety of clinical settings at Hopkins, Georgetown, GW, U of Maryland, etc. I've started hundreds (thousands?) of IVs and NEVER use lidocaine and only use EMLA in children. I was part of the IV team at Hopkins (i.e. I inserted IVs for a living) and never used lidocaine. By no means is it the standard of care.

The only time I've ever seen it used is at Shady Grove Fertility. I was an IVF patient and had lidocaine with the IV they inserted prior to my retrieval.

I'm not dismissing OPs situation but starting an IV with lidocaine is NOT routine practice and the vast majority of RNs (if any at all) wouldn't even have access to lidocaine for this purpose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP here...disclosure - I'm an not affiliated with Perinatal Assoc (well, they delivered my baby, but I don't work there nor do I have a personal relationship with Dr. Al-Khouatley).

I think what some of the people who quickly came to the OP's defense are forgetting is that none of us were there when everything happened and we are solely relying on her version of what happened. I'm not saying she's lying, but we don't know how accurate her account is, what parts may be exaggerated, etc.

It's easy to come on an anonymous forum and write a negative post specifically naming a physician/practice. The problem is, the reverse is against the law. A physician/practice specifically naming a patient violates HIPAA. Even if she (Dr. Al-Khouatley) wanted to publicly defend herself here, she would be unable to do so without breaking the law.

Just some food for thought...

But she or someone from her practice could come on and defend her without mentioning the patient's name. In fact, we don't even know the patient's name. While I do not think it is right to bad mouth doctors or their staff for that matter by name, it happens on DCUM and in particular this forum a lot. Most of the time, I imagine the complainer is overreacting or leaving out some important information. I would like to think that the people that use this forum are smart enough to make up their own minds when people come on and directly name individuals that perhaps don't even know they are being talked about because they don't come on this forum. Most likely the healthcare workers are too busy caring for the sick or saving lives to care what most posters in this forum think about them, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm an RN and have worked for close to 20 years in a variety of clinical settings at Hopkins, Georgetown, GW, U of Maryland, etc. I've started hundreds (thousands?) of IVs and NEVER use lidocaine and only use EMLA in children. I was part of the IV team at Hopkins (i.e. I inserted IVs for a living) and never used lidocaine. By no means is it the standard of care.

The only time I've ever seen it used is at Shady Grove Fertility. I was an IVF patient and had lidocaine with the IV they inserted prior to my retrieval.

I'm not dismissing OPs situation but starting an IV with lidocaine is NOT routine practice and the vast majority of RNs (if any at all) wouldn't even have access to lidocaine for this purpose.

Plus Lidocaine would have to be first ordered by the physician and the only lidocaine stocked on the floor would not be appropriate for this situation. So, it would have to come up from pharmacy (good luck getting that to happen in less than an hour) before it could even be available to be administered. Sub-q lidocaine prior to an IV start would hardly fit the parameters of being an emergent drug. Just saying, getting the lidocaine to administer to OP is not as easy, or cut and dried, as she thinks it would be. Despite what a few of you may think, it is very, very uncommon to do this.

[Anonymous]

I've been a nurse for 15 years and administering lidocane is fairly common. Of course in an emergency all bets are off but otherwise i'ved done it for many of my patients.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've been a nurse for 15 years and administering lidocane is fairly common. Of course in an emergency all bets are off but otherwise i'ved done it for many of my patients.

Did the physicians actually order it?

[Anonymous]

For decades, clinical researchers have recommended using intradermal lidocaine to reduce the discomfort of IV initiation, often calling it the gold standard of local anesthetics.

http://journals.lww.com/ajnonline/Fulltext/2011/02000/Original_Research__Local_Anesthesia_Before_IV.27.aspx

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've been a nurse for 15 years and administering lidocane is fairly common. Of course in an emergency all bets are off but otherwise i'ved done it for many of my patients.

What type of unit do you work on? I have (unfortunately) been in the hospital numerous times and had several surgeries in addition to the hospital stays - I have never had anyone, nurse or anesthesiologist, numb the area where they planned to insert the IV with lidocaine. Lidocaine itself burns and stings. An IV takes less than 30 seconds to insert (if done correctly) and hurts for a split second when the needle punctures the skin. If it hurts after that point something was done incorrectly. Unless it's a peds patient, why would you numb the area first? It makes no sense. Not only that, but what happens if you blow the vein where you numbed or it becomes occluded? Then you have to numb an entirely different area all over again?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For decades, clinical researchers have recommended using intradermal lidocaine to reduce the discomfort of IV initiation, often calling it the gold standard of local anesthetics.

http://journals.lww.com/ajnonline/Fulltext/2011/02000/Original_Research__Local_Anesthesia_Before_IV.27.aspx

Your reference is AJN??? LOL!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been a nurse for 15 years and administering lidocane is fairly common. Of course in an emergency all bets are off but otherwise i'ved done it for many of my patients.

What type of unit do you work on? I have (unfortunately) been in the hospital numerous times and had several surgeries in addition to the hospital stays - I have never had anyone, nurse or anesthesiologist, numb the area where they planned to insert the IV with lidocaine. Lidocaine itself burns and stings. An IV takes less than 30 seconds to insert (if done correctly) and hurts for a split second when the needle punctures the skin. If it hurts after that point something was done incorrectly. Unless it's a peds patient, why would you numb the area first? It makes no sense. Not only that, but what happens if you blow the vein where you numbed or it becomes occluded? Then you have to numb an entirely different area all over again?

This. I also am in no way affiliated with this practice, nor am I medical professional. I had a vaginal birth where I pushed for 4 hours and THEN after all kinds of attempts to turn and manipulate the baby they had to use forceps. It took about 3 weeks before I could walk comfortably. I'd take a hundred IV insertions over that pain. Now the c-section pain I totally get but please get over the IV insertion thing. That's like the spa treatment part of childbirth.