AP vs. IB for science/math/technology kid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:IB is a more rigorous, well rounded college prep program. But it is a full program and kids who are excel in some areas but not others are going to have problems getting the full diploma. (And their parents, who apparently can't admit that their DC can't handle a portion of the IB program, end up really hostile towards IB). AP may well be better for STEM kids, if those kids can't write and apply concepts across disciplines. It's more forgiving of humanities kids who can dumb down the math with "math studies" and biology SL -- a parent of an IB all around good student and a AP STEM kid who hates writing. I'm glad they got to choose the program that was right for them. I prefer the IB approach for college prep, but think it's a bad fit for DC 2.

The IB diploma programs have really struggled, which is why FCPS is trying to shore them up with the MYP at some schools. Meanwhile all the top schools - TJ, Langley, McLean, Woodson, Oakton and Madison - are all AP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IB is a more rigorous, well rounded college prep program. But it is a full program and kids who are excel in some areas but not others are going to have problems getting the full diploma. (And their parents, who apparently can't admit that their DC can't handle a portion of the IB program, end up really hostile towards IB). AP may well be better for STEM kids, if those kids can't write and apply concepts across disciplines. It's more forgiving of humanities kids who can dumb down the math with "math studies" and biology SL -- a parent of an IB all around good student and a AP STEM kid who hates writing. I'm glad they got to choose the program that was right for them. I prefer the IB approach for college prep, but think it's a bad fit for DC 2.

The IB diploma programs have really struggled, which is why FCPS is trying to shore them up with the MYP at some schools. Meanwhile all the top schools - TJ, Langley, McLean, Woodson, Oakton and Madison - are all AP.

This is a very tired argument. FCPS screwed up implementing IB, by putting it into low performing schools and hoping it would draw in affluent kids. And them doubled down on this mistake. It places like SLHS and Marshall, it's been a good call. But the program in places like Stuart, Lee and Mt. Vernon is a mistake-- not enough kids who can do the high level work across all subject areas plus the extras the diploma requirements. It takes a really strong, dedicated student to go full IB, and schools like Lee don't have a huge supply of zoned students who can do the work. And not providing busing for pupil placement means kids stick to their base school, and don't pupil place. That said, IB is well regarded and highly sought after in districts, like MoCo/ Montgomery Blair where it is properly implemented.

Also, TJ could never be a STEM magnet and IB. It's a one or the other thing. TJ has special and extra diploma requirements (like a CS class and a senior lab with pre recs). IB also has a special diploma with extra requirements. It is hard to get all of the requirements of either diploma, standing alone. It would be impossible to meet the requirements of both diplomas in 4 years, even with no extracurriculars. Now, of FCPS had on competitive entry IB school equivalent of TJ, that school would be very well respected and highly sought after (like Blair) and do a good job serving smart humanities or across the board strong students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IB is a more rigorous, well rounded college prep program. But it is a full program and kids who are excel in some areas but not others are going to have problems getting the full diploma. (And their parents, who apparently can't admit that their DC can't handle a portion of the IB program, end up really hostile towards IB). AP may well be better for STEM kids, if those kids can't write and apply concepts across disciplines. It's more forgiving of humanities kids who can dumb down the math with "math studies" and biology SL -- a parent of an IB all around good student and a AP STEM kid who hates writing. I'm glad they got to choose the program that was right for them. I prefer the IB approach for college prep, but think it's a bad fit for DC 2.

The IB diploma programs have really struggled, which is why FCPS is trying to shore them up with the MYP at some schools. Meanwhile all the top schools - TJ, Langley, McLean, Woodson, Oakton and Madison - are all AP.

This is a very tired argument. FCPS screwed up implementing IB, by putting it into low performing schools and hoping it would draw in affluent kids. And them doubled down on this mistake. It places like SLHS and Marshall, it's been a good call. But the program in places like Stuart, Lee and Mt. Vernon is a mistake-- not enough kids who can do the high level work across all subject areas plus the extras the diploma requirements. It takes a really strong, dedicated student to go full IB, and schools like Lee don't have a huge supply of zoned students who can do the work. And not providing busing for pupil placement means kids stick to their base school, and don't pupil place. That said, IB is well regarded and highly sought after in districts, like MoCo/ Montgomery Blair where it is properly implemented.

Also, TJ could never be a STEM magnet and IB. It's a one or the other thing. TJ has special and extra diploma requirements (like a CS class and a senior lab with pre recs). IB also has a special diploma with extra requirements. It is hard to get all of the requirements of either diploma, standing alone. It would be impossible to meet the requirements of both diplomas in 4 years, even with no extracurriculars. Now, of FCPS had on competitive entry IB school equivalent of TJ, that school would be very well respected and highly sought after (like Blair) and do a good job serving smart humanities or across the board strong students.

Lots of speculation about how you think things might have been, as opposed to dealing with the facts. There's been plenty of time for IB to take root and thrive in FCPS. It hasn't. People want the AP districts.

As for Montgomery Blair, it does not have IB.

[Anonymous]

It is Richard Montgomery in MoCo that has the very successful IB Magnet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IB is a more rigorous, well rounded college prep program. But it is a full program and kids who are excel in some areas but not others are going to have problems getting the full diploma. (And their parents, who apparently can't admit that their DC can't handle a portion of the IB program, end up really hostile towards IB). AP may well be better for STEM kids, if those kids can't write and apply concepts across disciplines. It's more forgiving of humanities kids who can dumb down the math with "math studies" and biology SL -- a parent of an IB all around good student and a AP STEM kid who hates writing. I'm glad they got to choose the program that was right for them. I prefer the IB approach for college prep, but think it's a bad fit for DC 2.

The IB diploma programs have really struggled, which is why FCPS is trying to shore them up with the MYP at some schools. Meanwhile all the top schools - TJ, Langley, McLean, Woodson, Oakton and Madison - are all AP.

This is a very tired argument. FCPS screwed up implementing IB, by putting it into low performing schools and hoping it would draw in affluent kids. And them doubled down on this mistake. It places like SLHS and Marshall, it's been a good call. But the program in places like Stuart, Lee and Mt. Vernon is a mistake-- not enough kids who can do the high level work across all subject areas plus the extras the diploma requirements. It takes a really strong, dedicated student to go full IB, and schools like Lee don't have a huge supply of zoned students who can do the work. And not providing busing for pupil placement means kids stick to their base school, and don't pupil place. That said, IB is well regarded and highly sought after in districts, like MoCo/ Montgomery Blair where it is properly implemented.

Also, TJ could never be a STEM magnet and IB. It's a one or the other thing. TJ has special and extra diploma requirements (like a CS class and a senior lab with pre recs). IB also has a special diploma with extra requirements. It is hard to get all of the requirements of either diploma, standing alone. It would be impossible to meet the requirements of both diplomas in 4 years, even with no extracurriculars. Now, of FCPS had on competitive entry IB school equivalent of TJ, that school would be very well respected and highly sought after (like Blair) and do a good job serving smart humanities or across the board strong students.

Lots of speculation about how you think things might have been, as opposed to dealing with the facts. There's been plenty of time for IB to take root and thrive in FCPS. It hasn't. People want the AP districts.

As for Montgomery Blair, it does not have IB.

Sorry-- Richcard Montgomery, not MB. (Not from MCPS).

And IB has flourished in some FCPS schools--- SLHS, Robinson and Marshall. It's just also been put in too many low performing schools where tithe kids can't take advantage of it. FCPS should pick 2 of the schools with strong programs, make them magnets, provide busing, drop it everywhere else, and call it a day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IB is a more rigorous, well rounded college prep program. But it is a full program and kids who are excel in some areas but not others are going to have problems getting the full diploma. (And their parents, who apparently can't admit that their DC can't handle a portion of the IB program, end up really hostile towards IB). AP may well be better for STEM kids, if those kids can't write and apply concepts across disciplines. It's more forgiving of humanities kids who can dumb down the math with "math studies" and biology SL -- a parent of an IB all around good student and a AP STEM kid who hates writing. I'm glad they got to choose the program that was right for them. I prefer the IB approach for college prep, but think it's a bad fit for DC 2.

The IB diploma programs have really struggled, which is why FCPS is trying to shore them up with the MYP at some schools. Meanwhile all the top schools - TJ, Langley, McLean, Woodson, Oakton and Madison - are all AP.

This is a very tired argument. FCPS screwed up implementing IB, by putting it into low performing schools and hoping it would draw in affluent kids. And them doubled down on this mistake. It places like SLHS and Marshall, it's been a good call. But the program in places like Stuart, Lee and Mt. Vernon is a mistake-- not enough kids who can do the high level work across all subject areas plus the extras the diploma requirements. It takes a really strong, dedicated student to go full IB, and schools like Lee don't have a huge supply of zoned students who can do the work. And not providing busing for pupil placement means kids stick to their base school, and don't pupil place. That said, IB is well regarded and highly sought after in districts, like MoCo/ Montgomery Blair where it is properly implemented.

Also, TJ could never be a STEM magnet and IB. It's a one or the other thing. TJ has special and extra diploma requirements (like a CS class and a senior lab with pre recs). IB also has a special diploma with extra requirements. It is hard to get all of the requirements of either diploma, standing alone. It would be impossible to meet the requirements of both diplomas in 4 years, even with no extracurriculars. Now, of FCPS had on competitive entry IB school equivalent of TJ, that school would be very well respected and highly sought after (like Blair) and do a good job serving smart humanities or across the board strong students.

Lots of speculation about how you think things might have been, as opposed to dealing with the facts. There's been plenty of time for IB to take root and thrive in FCPS. It hasn't. People want the AP districts.

As for Montgomery Blair, it does not have IB.

Sorry-- Richcard Montgomery, not MB. (Not from MCPS).

And IB has flourished in some FCPS schools--- SLHS, Robinson and Marshall. It's just also been put in too many low performing schools where tithe kids can't take advantage of it. FCPS should pick 2 of the schools with strong programs, make them magnets, provide busing, drop it everywhere else, and call it a day.

I think you mean floundered, not flourished.

Either way the science/math/technology kids overwhelmingly go to AP schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My oldest is a math and science kid also. We will be placing into IB. He doesn't like writing and couldn't care less about philosophy and world views...but that is exactly why we think IB would be best for him. I know he will rise to the challenge and a math and science kid who has great writing skills and a holistic education (not one just loaded with AP math and science classes) is going to do much better in college and in life.

+1 We are doing the same thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My oldest is a math and science kid also. We will be placing into IB. He doesn't like writing and couldn't care less about philosophy and world views...but that is exactly why we think IB would be best for him. I know he will rise to the challenge and a math and science kid who has great writing skills and a holistic education (not one just loaded with AP math and science classes) is going to do much better in college and in life.

+1 We are doing the same thing.

+2
My DS also did the immersion during elementary school. So I have a foreign language loving math geek. We are starting the IB program in the fall. DS's goal is to be a German engineer. The best way to study engineering in Germany is with an IB. The item I liked about the IB program is that they are kinda against rushing through the material. So although he is in Algebra II Trig and German III as a freshmen, they won't let him wrap up as a Junior (at an AP school he'd be in at least 2 AP classes as a Jr. not accounting for other classes), the exams have to wait for the Sr. year. So he won't get the Jr. crush and Sr. slide as much as I've seen some other kids who are ahead. I like the fact that the classes are two year classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My oldest is a math and science kid also. We will be placing into IB. He doesn't like writing and couldn't care less about philosophy and world views...but that is exactly why we think IB would be best for him. I know he will rise to the challenge and a math and science kid who has great writing skills and a holistic education (not one just loaded with AP math and science classes) is going to do much better in college and in life.

+1 We are doing the same thing.

How sad that parents are forcing kids into IB programs against their will. No wonder the percentage of students getting IB diplomas at those schools is abysmally low (3-20%).

[Anonymous]

Of 237 NMSF in FCPS last year, 163 went to TJ, and 68 went to other AP schools. The eight IB schools in FCPS combined for six, or less than one per school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Of 237 NMSF in FCPS last year, 163 went to TJ, and 68 went to other AP schools. The eight IB schools in FCPS combined for six, or less than one per school.

NMSF is not a measure of "success."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My oldest is a math and science kid also. We will be placing into IB. He doesn't like writing and couldn't care less about philosophy and world views...but that is exactly why we think IB would be best for him. I know he will rise to the challenge and a math and science kid who has great writing skills and a holistic education (not one just loaded with AP math and science classes) is going to do much better in college and in life.

+1 We are doing the same thing.

How sad that parents are forcing kids into IB programs against their will. No wonder the percentage of students getting IB diplomas at those schools is abysmally low (3-20%).

I am the 22:45 and 22:51. This is exactly what we did with my oldest who loves science and history but wanted to take as much science as possible in high school. We strongly encouraged he do full IB and so he signed up for junior year classes to be full IB. As junior year progressed he grew increasingly unhappy. Junior year of high school for the majority of these super smart kids is stressful enough in Nova - and it was a poor decision on our part to add to the stress by encouraging him to take a couple classes required for IB that he had no real interest in. So senior year we let him make the choice completely on his own and he took a combination of AP and IB classes. The school put pressure on him to stay full IB because, at least at our school, the majority of the students who earn an IB diploma are girls and the school didn't want to lose another boy from the program. And we learned our lesson for son number 2 who is a science kid too. We were fortunate that our high school had both IB and AP - perhaps other IB high schools don't have both.

As far as great writing skills and "a holistic education" - I am not sure why anyone would think that's not possible with AP. My sons still took AP English and AP foreign languages and were accepted at highly competitive small liberal arts colleges, something that wouldn't have happened if they didn't have excellent writing skills and a generally well-rounded education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of 237 NMSF in FCPS last year, 163 went to TJ, and 68 went to other AP schools. The eight IB schools in FCPS combined for six, or less than one per school.

NMSF is not a measure of "success."

It certainly tells you something about which schools the smartest kids are attending.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of 237 NMSF in FCPS last year, 163 went to TJ, and 68 went to other AP schools. The eight IB schools in FCPS combined for six, or less than one per school.

NMSF is not a measure of "success."

It certainly tells you something about which schools the smartest kids are attending.

But it mostly just tells you about the socioeconomic status of the student.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of 237 NMSF in FCPS last year, 163 went to TJ, and 68 went to other AP schools. The eight IB schools in FCPS combined for six, or less than one per school.

NMSF is not a measure of "success."

It certainly tells you something about which schools the smartest kids are attending.

But it mostly just tells you about the socioeconomic status of the student.

Is that the specious logic taught in IB classes. If IB were appealing it would be attracting higher SES families to schools that have had IB for at least 15 years. It hasn't worked out that way.