How intellectually mature is the average HS senior/lifer at Sidwell,Maret,GDS,Cathedral Schools ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP I went to a Big 3 school and in many ways I was immature when I graduated (at 17, not 19). I chose the colleges I applied to based on proximity to skiing. But you know what? It all worked out very well in the end. I think the education I got in HS prepared me well for college and graduate school. I think 17 and 18 year olds are generally going to be immature in at least some ways whether they are at a big 3 school, big 10 school, great public school, crappy public school, whatever. In fact college bound kids at crappy public schools are probably the most mature because they have to be self motivated and independent and are much less likley to be helicoptered through life. So maybe that's where you need to be focusing your energy.

Our teenage DC so far are looking for: Division 1 sports, preferably ACC football (as a spectator, not player); great skiing at outdoor activities (thinking UColorado at Boulder); great city and shopping (thinking NYU or Georgetown); warm weather, good football (thinking a Florida state school); medical college on campus (thinking Florida, Pittsburgh or VCU). They all rank decent dining hall as important. That's what's important to them; what's important to you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I went to a Big 3 school and in many ways I was immature when I graduated (at 17, not 19). I chose the colleges I applied to based on proximity to skiing. But you know what? It all worked out very well in the end. I think the education I got in HS prepared me well for college and graduate school. I think 17 and 18 year olds are generally going to be immature in at least some ways whether they are at a big 3 school, big 10 school, great public school, crappy public school, whatever. In fact college bound kids at crappy public schools are probably the most mature because they have to be self motivated and independent and are much less likley to be helicoptered through life. So maybe that's where you need to be focusing your energy.

Our teenage DC so far are looking for: Division 1 sports, preferably ACC football (as a spectator, not player); great skiing at outdoor activities (thinking UColorado at Boulder); great city and shopping (thinking NYU or Georgetown); warm weather, good football (thinking a Florida state school); medical college on campus (thinking Florida, Pittsburgh or VCU). They all rank decent dining hall as important. That's what's important to them; what's important to you?

Would you mind sharing where you went to school and where your DC is currently a student. Again, not to generalize, but just trying to get a sense apart from what the AD's and the brochures tell you about a school. thanks

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I went to a Big 3 school and in many ways I was immature when I graduated (at 17, not 19). I chose the colleges I applied to based on proximity to skiing. But you know what? It all worked out very well in the end. I think the education I got in HS prepared me well for college and graduate school. I think 17 and 18 year olds are generally going to be immature in at least some ways whether they are at a big 3 school, big 10 school, great public school, crappy public school, whatever. In fact college bound kids at crappy public schools are probably the most mature because they have to be self motivated and independent and are much less likley to be helicoptered through life. So maybe that's where you need to be focusing your energy.

Our teenage DC so far are looking for: Division 1 sports, preferably ACC football (as a spectator, not player); great skiing at outdoor activities (thinking UColorado at Boulder); great city and shopping (thinking NYU or Georgetown); warm weather, good football (thinking a Florida state school); medical college on campus (thinking Florida, Pittsburgh or VCU). They all rank decent dining hall as important. That's what's important to them; what's important to you?

Would you mind sharing where you went to school and where your DC is currently a student. Again, not to generalize, but just trying to get a sense apart from what the AD's and the brochures tell you about a school. thanks

Is this because the post makes you want to apply to PP's son's school, or the opposite? Because everything about PP's (wonderful, i think, showing respect for her DC) post says a lot about the DC but nothing about his secondary school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most kids that age are not intellectually mature. They care about what people think of them because they are still pretty self-centered. Their parents might add to this by vocalizing how important "status" is by material possessions. I've heard parents say many things in front of their kids like "Don't wear that. You look like a homeless person." or "That school is full of weirdos." Etc. Kids internalize this after many years of it.

I disagree and 19 years old is not a "kid". I am not talking about HS freshman. I am talking about HS seniors. Was is Piaget or Erikkson who said that,"identity is the developmental task of the teenager" Seems you need that to choose a college and a major. It is not the sum of a transcript plus extracurriculars.

Perhaps you will find some mature girls at that age but most boys do not fully mature until their mid 20s. I have my Master's degree, thanks. In education. My DH teaches some college courses and he concurs. There are fewer boys in his freshman classes (writing) because 1) there are fewer boys enrolled in the college and this has been the case for 10+ years and 2) boys are overrepresented in the remedial courses. They graduate from HS and if they enroll in college, they are not ready for the college level classes so they have to take remedial ones first. In our society, 19 is still a "kid." Parents hover over their children and that is why parents are overly involved in the college admission's process. My DH gets emails every year from parents of his students. He, of course, cannot discuss their grades, etc with their parents but that doesn't stop them. The students he has are immature compared to the ones he had years ago. They text in class (without trying to hide it) and are generally not as respectful to the teacher, according to my DH. Times have changed and not necessarily for the better.

What you share is VERY interesting. May I ask : where does DH teach ? Myself I think I notice a HUGE change in the kids today too. I think I notice it more than others because I waited until late 30's to have a child. This means that my 60's and 70's era childhood is very different than my DC's. Not having freedom to roam as kids, I suspect is a big contributor to immaturity later. Doubly so, if you have a boy. I saw this played out in stark relief yesterday at a rainy Stoddard soccer game : A 9 year old boy was screaming at his mother "get me out of here,Mom". I guess he was cold, but seriously !!! "get me out of here" What is she a chauffer, a fixer. Put on a damn coat, run around, get back on the field anything....but OMG What the F**K is wrong with a kid like that.

[Anonymous]

PP- My DH teaches some courses at a MD state university. I didn't believe him when he told me about parents emailing him until he showed me the emails. It happens every semester. He said that some of the parents are outraged that he won't discuss their child's grades, etc with them. They go on and on about how they are paying the bill so they should be kept "in the loop" about their child. He also told me that they have to push the parents off campus during freshman move-in/orientation. They have a separate orientation for them b/c parents would hover in their kids' dorm rooms and apts. The RAs at the school where he teaches give out business cards w/ their names and contact info to parents b/c parents demand to know what is going on with their child. Of course, this isn't all parents but that is crazy to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I dunno -- "after 14 years of high-powered private schooling, did your kids turn out to be thoughtful and intellectually engaged people or exceptionally well-trained performing seals (and do you credit or blame the school or yourselves for this outcome)?" strikes me as a question someone might wonder about. And, for that matter, a question than many potential respondents might well take offense at. Mystery solved.

10 years into the process, DC seems firmly on the former path and I think that's because school and home reinforced each others' values. At least that's what I take away when I look at DC's schoolmates, some of whom are like DC, but most of whom aren't. Where I think school makes the most difference is when you have a kid whose personality or interests start(s) out different from his or her parents and who ends up at a school that's a good fit for the kid.

I'm not sure to whom you are writing and what point you are making. As far as brand is concerned in the mid-1990s when I bought my car a FORD was a FORD and a TOYOTA was TOYOTA. I got a lousy return on my investment with the FORD. I got an excellent ROI with the TOYOTA. Education is no different.

Why would I spend $30,000/ year for an private primary school education in the D.C. area. This is a lousy ROI in my opinion. The public magnet schools are a far superior eduactional brand. Therefore, my children went to the public school magnets for primary education. There received a far superior return on that investment. "High-powered private primary school" does not equal superior education in the D.C. area. For those struggling with their underwater mortgages we have no reason to be part of the educational bubble and sentence our children to worthess underwater educational loans. Therefore, the choice of $45,000/year at Harvard may indeed be a better ROI thatn $35.000/year at Podunk University.

You say these things because you aren't very well-educated yourself and because you don't see any intrinsic value in education.

[Anonymous]

You say these things because you aren't very well-educated yourself and because you don't see any intrinsic value in education.

I'm sure professional and graduate degree don't count as education in your world, or elite NE prep school, selective LAC, top Ivy, McGill don't count for education. I still would not pay a farthing to send my kids to D.C. area private primary schools over the local public magnet programs simply because from my cost-benefit analysis the return on investment is not worth it.

You may of course disagree; however, this doesn't mean I don't see any intrinsic value in education. On the contrary, I don't see alot of value in educational services provided by many of primary schools. Performance of our students over the last 2 decades, the American economy and lack of productivity over the last decades are bearing this out.

I'm not well educated but not dumb enough to allow my children to drown under the water of educational loans to no where ($32,000/year for 12 years). I doubt billionaire Warren Buffet would spend this on his children for primary education. He's probably as dumb and uneducated as myself for sending his kids to public magnet schools.

[Anonymous]

What you share is VERY interesting. May I ask : where does DH teach ? Myself I think I notice a HUGE change in the kids today too. I think I notice it more than others because I waited until late 30's to have a child. This means that my 60's and 70's era childhood is very different than my DC's. Not having freedom to roam as kids, I suspect is a big contributor to immaturity later. Doubly so, if you have a boy. I saw this played out in stark relief yesterday at a rainy Stoddard soccer game : A 9 year old boy was screaming at his mother "get me out of here,Mom". I guess he was cold, but seriously !!! "get me out of here" What is she a chauffer, a fixer. Put on a damn coat, run around, get back on the field anything....but OMG What the F**K is wrong with a kid like that.

Boy, you are just a model of compassion. I have a 9-y-o boy who would act just like that because he's autistic and sometimes he completely freaks out in those kinds of situations. Actually he is rarely in such situations because I know he can't handle them, but every once in a while they are unavoidable. I'm glad to know you are out there judging me. He also has a great deal of wonderful gifts and, because of all his therapy, is far more tuned in to his emotions than an average boy his age, but if he had been outside yesterday, be would have lost it completely. Yes, he most likely would have been screaming. And he can go to any damn college he wants. He'll probably be ready to start (still living at home) around age 15/16, but he most likely still won't be able to handle cold, wet weather. So next time stop to think the there is something medically "the F**K wrong with a kid like that" and say a little thank you that you don't have to take your kids to lifelong more than once weekly therapy to get your kid to a point where he can actually handle wearing a jacket without screaming at the intense discomfort. Have a lovely Sunday. My 9-y-o is taking a nap as usual because he gets so exhausted from school and therapy that he often naps in addition to his full night of sleep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

23:22 here again

As you look for HS - you should be looking for a good match for your child. And you can teach your child through this process that it is the match that matters, not just the brand name of the school. One of the great benefits of moving from a k-8 school is your child can learn how to find a match so that they already are familiar with that idea when it comes time to apply for college. Your actions now will be a blueprint for your child later...so if you act like you care about Big 3 over Big 5 for external reasons for HS - they may do the same for college.

That's precisely why I teach my children a tried and true trusted brand is equally important -- even in education! A cost - benefit (reward) analysis goes with good economic sense. Children should be taught this early in life.

Furthermore, that's precisely why we are still driving our 15 year old Toyota and our Ford was junked long ago due to abject and poor quality. Are you suggesting I should have bought a Ford?

I am the PP this response is directed at. I not saying you did anything wrong - trying to be supportive actually. This post was not meant to be loaded in any way. FWIW, I am Not saying a Big 3 is bad. Not saying any "brand" is bad. I am saying that the choice made should be made because it works for your child and not based on what it looks like to the outside. OP suggested this matters for college and I am pointing out that the same should apply for HS too. Furthermore, that this is a great opportunity for an 8th grader to learn a lot of things about what is important in applying for college by experiencing the HS application process with parents as a guide. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
What you share is VERY interesting. May I ask : where does DH teach ? Myself I think I notice a HUGE change in the kids today too. I think I notice it more than others because I waited until late 30's to have a child. This means that my 60's and 70's era childhood is very different than my DC's. Not having freedom to roam as kids, I suspect is a big contributor to immaturity later. Doubly so, if you have a boy. I saw this played out in stark relief yesterday at a rainy Stoddard soccer game : A 9 year old boy was screaming at his mother "get me out of here,Mom". I guess he was cold, but seriously !!! "get me out of here" What is she a chauffer, a fixer. Put on a damn coat, run around, get back on the field anything....but OMG What the F**K is wrong with a kid like that.

Boy, you are just a model of compassion. I have a 9-y-o boy who would act just like that because he's autistic and sometimes he completely freaks out in those kinds of situations. Actually he is rarely in such situations because I know he can't handle them, but every once in a while they are unavoidable. I'm glad to know you are out there judging me. He also has a great deal of wonderful gifts and, because of all his therapy, is far more tuned in to his emotions than an average boy his age, but if he had been outside yesterday, be would have lost it completely. Yes, he most likely would have been screaming. And he can go to any damn college he wants. He'll probably be ready to start (still living at home) around age 15/16, but he most likely still won't be able to handle cold, wet weather. So next time stop to think the there is something medically "the F**K wrong with a kid like that" and say a little thank you that you don't have to take your kids to lifelong more than once weekly therapy to get your kid to a point where he can actually handle wearing a jacket without screaming at the intense discomfort. Have a lovely Sunday. My 9-y-o is taking a nap as usual because he gets so exhausted from school and therapy that he often naps in addition to his full night of sleep.

I had a similar reaction. PP used awfully strong language without knowing anything about that child's situation. Perhaps he was coming down with something. Perhaps he was injured. Perhaps he has an ASD. Perhaps he was just having a bad day and is usually quite self-sufficient. This is a 9 year-old, after all. When you things like "OMG What the FUCK is wrong with a kid like that," it makes me sad.

[Anonymous]

I had a similar reaction. PP used awfully strong language without knowing anything about that child's situation. Perhaps he was coming down with something. Perhaps he was injured. Perhaps he has an ASD. Perhaps he was just having a bad day and is usually quite self-sufficient. This is a 9 year-old, after all. When you things like "OMG What the FUCK is wrong with a kid like that," it makes me sad.

It makes me sad for the mother that their 9-year-old child will yell and abuse them.

[Anonymous]

I had a similar reaction. PP used awfully strong language without knowing anything about that child's situation. Perhaps he was coming down with something. Perhaps he was injured. Perhaps he has an ASD. Perhaps he was just having a bad day and is usually quite self-sufficient. This is a 9 year-old, after all. When you things like "OMG What the FUCK is wrong with a kid like that," it makes me sad.

Poster, please tell us what an ASD has to do with a 9-year-old yelling at a mother. Your remark would be noteworthy indeed. What is the association of an ASD with temper tantrums? I have never heard of that association and I have diagnosed and closed ASDs for the last 20 years!

[Anonymous]

What's ASD?

[Anonymous]

This thread is hysterical. OP asks a relatively educated & interesting question ("To what extent do the local elite private schools encourage their students to think for themselves & act independently?") and out come the most bizarre collection of responses. Like what, 2 people, have engaged in a substantive conversation on what should be an interesting topic to all of us?

So far, you all have accused OP of being a bad writer, a bad mother, not knowing her own child, caring more about a brand than a kid, pushing her kid harder than she should, being a jerk to people on DCUM, and hating the autistic. Because she asked whether you though your DC's schools encouraged them to think independently! OP, carry on. At least a few of us think you're the normal one.

I encourage you to look at schools outside Washington. The boarding schools are at a Secondary Schools Conference at Norwood next week. Might be worth investigating.

[Anonymous]

This thread is hysterical. OP asks a relatively educated & interesting question ("To what extent do the local elite private schools encourage their students to think for themselves & act independently?") and out come the most bizarre collection of responses. Like what, 2 people, have engaged in a substantive conversation on what should be an interesting topic to all of us?

So far, you all have accused OP of being a bad writer, a bad mother, not knowing her own child, caring more about a brand than a kid, pushing her kid harder than she should, being a jerk to people on DCUM, and hating the autistic. Because she asked whether you though your DC's schools encouraged them to think independently! OP, carry on. At least a few of us think you're the normal one.

I encourage you to look at schools outside Washington. The boarding schools are at a Secondary Schools Conference at Norwood next week. Might be worth investigating.

Blabber