DCUM Class warfare

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:11:18, really? STFU? Seriously? I've been to Brazilian favelas and Kenyan kiberas, I've seen the wealthy barricaded behind barbed wire and cement walls. I will gladly pay more in taxes to live in a more equitable society.

And if you've really been to those societies you'll realize that only in America can some1 come from the bottom and make it to the top. Our system is built on using your own talents. In Kenya a few families have it all and the rest live like paupers, in Brazil you better be of European descent. Again America is the greatest country in the world. Look at the immigrants that show up on our shores and "make it". Year after year, check out your local university you'll see them as TAs or researchers working so hard.

Nice idea, unfortunately our class mobility has slipped below that of most European nations. A good summary of this from The Economist, http://www.economist.com/node/15908469:

Parental income is a better predictor of a child’s future in America than in much of Europe, implying that social mobility is less powerful. Different groups of Americans have different levels of opportunity. Those born to the middle class have about an equal chance of moving up or down the income ladder, according to the Economic Mobility Project. But those born to black middle-class families are much more likely than their white counterparts to fall in rank. The children of the rich and poor, meanwhile, are less mobile than the middle class’s. More than 40% of those Americans born in the bottom quintile remain stuck there as adults.

[TheManWithAUsername]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Yes I'm a social liberal. I support a multicultural society with rights and choices etc. I do not consider myself a conservative. HOWEVER, we worked so damn hard to be here, missed out on fun in college to go to the library and study and do it again for our advanced degrees. Toiled the first few years out of school working long hard hours. Oh and my parents, working class stiffs in a shitty state that is losing residents. I support them now, pay their car note, pay for trips to see their grandkids, pay house note, pay for them to come on family vacations with us, buy gifts for our kids and label it from them. So if you want the "rich" to pay more at least acknowledge that they are paying most of the taxes in this country and more importantly to me the District.

I didn't argue (here) for anyone to pay more taxes. You said that there's a nationwide class war against your class, and you suggested that all of your success is attributable to hard work and tough choices. I disputed both of those claims.

Of course those with more money are generally paying more in taxes; that would be ridiculous to dispute.

You seem to be arguing with News Corp straw men, like the supposed class warrior.

[Anonymous]

11:18 should have said no FEDERAL income tax. Those of us being asked to "pay our fair share" are also paying state, local, etc taxes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:11:18, really? STFU? Seriously? I've been to Brazilian favelas and Kenyan kiberas, I've seen the wealthy barricaded behind barbed wire and cement walls. I will gladly pay more in taxes to live in a more equitable society.

And if you've really been to those societies you'll realize that only in America can some1 come from the bottom and make it to the top. Our system is built on using your own talents. In Kenya a few families have it all and the rest live like paupers, in Brazil you better be of European descent. Again America is the greatest country in the world. Look at the immigrants that show up on our shores and "make it". Year after year, check out your local university you'll see them as TAs or researchers working so hard.

I'd take Switzerland and Finland over Brazil, Kenya, *or* the United States anyday. There are other choices besides Brazil or the United States, more equitable choices.

[Anonymous]

OK ok lets get back to this on a local level. Why are so many high income earners in DC ashamed of their incomes?Is this just liberal white guilt?

[Anonymous]

11:39 You are welcome to take those choices anytime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Lowest recent unemployment rate was 3.8% in April 2000, before the Bush tax cuts (39.6 vs. 35) and even before Bush's election. Going back further, we get 3.4% in 1969, when the top marginal rate was 75.25%.

Yes, back in the day the tax rate was insanely high and intended to nab the Rockefeller wealthy (who could otherwise find tax loopholes to pay nothing). During the depression the tax rate was 80% for incomes over $5,000,000. People love to cite the higher tax rates as relevant to the "Obama rich" earning more than $250,000. The "rich" today should be considered the Buffet-type rich, not today's "working wealthy" folks.

The $5M threshold was in place from 1936-1941, but aside from that (and the $1M threshold in 1932-35), the threshold for the top rate has generally hovered around $200K (sometimes bumping up to $400K, but dropping precipitously in the 80s, to a low of 30K during Reagan's last year in office). In 1968, it was $200K (which granted was worth a lot more then than it is now); in 2000 it was $288K.

Exactly. So this business of calling the $250k+ rich and taxing at the top brackets does not have historical basis, is a relatively new phenomenon, and has never been adjusted for today's dollars from the $1M in the 1930's, as is so often chirped in news bites or scribbled in op eds. That's my point: raise the top tax bracket through the roof, but go after the Buffet rich (Warren said they wouldn't mind the tax hike), not today's new "working wealthy."

I'm delighted that we're moving toward agreement. I would propose an increase in tax rates at $250K--not necessarily to 1982 levels (50%, $100K threshold), but steeper than for families that make only $100K (and another step to make the $50K rate yet smaller). But I'm with you on putting in an extra top rate for folks who are unbelievably wealthy.

[TheManWithAUsername]

Anonymous wrote:Nice idea, unfortunately our class mobility has slipped below that of most European nations. A good summary of this from The Economist, http://www.economist.com/node/15908469:

And our income disparity is about average for an African country:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Order everything through Amazon.

good idea! Wouldn't work for milk, but what the hey. I guess I could order powdered milk through amazon. of course, then there is my annoying property tax... I guess I could sell my house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OK ok lets get back to this on a local level. Why are so many high income earners in DC ashamed of their incomes?Is this just liberal white guilt?

Because it is frightening to live in a nation with low equality. Just ask the aristocrats of France prior to the revolution. Or ask the wealthy in Arab countries these days (will they be able to get out with their lives?) You can joke about asking the wealthy to pay a similar fraction of their income as taxes as class warfare, but real class warfare has and always will exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:11:18, really? STFU? Seriously? I've been to Brazilian favelas and Kenyan kiberas, I've seen the wealthy barricaded behind barbed wire and cement walls. I will gladly pay more in taxes to live in a more equitable society.

And if you've really been to those societies you'll realize that only in America can some1 come from the bottom and make it to the top. Our system is built on using your own talents. In Kenya a few families have it all and the rest live like paupers, in Brazil you better be of European descent. Again America is the greatest country in the world. Look at the immigrants that show up on our shores and "make it". Year after year, check out your local university you'll see them as TAs or researchers working so hard.

I'd take Switzerland and Finland over Brazil, Kenya, *or* the United States anyday. There are other choices besides Brazil or the United States, more equitable choices.

Switzerland huh? Only for the white. See you may enjoy Switzerland , but its a small closed homogeneous society that doesn't allow immigration. Have a great time. I'll take Jupiter Fl.

[Anonymous]

11:41 uhhh,, Yes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK ok lets get back to this on a local level. Why are so many high income earners in DC ashamed of their incomes?Is this just liberal white guilt?

Because it is frightening to live in a nation with low equality. Just ask the aristocrats of France prior to the revolution. Or ask the wealthy in Arab countries these days (will they be able to get out with their lives?) You can joke about asking the wealthy to pay a similar fraction of their income as taxes as class warfare, but real class warfare has and always will exist.

But again these societies you mention are so different from America today. Can a black man born out of wedlock lead Saudi Arabia or the French monarchy? In America you can do it if you try.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Exactly. So this business of calling the $250k+ rich and taxing at the top brackets does not have historical basis, is a relatively new phenomenon, and has never been adjusted for today's dollars from the $1M in the 1930's, as is so often chirped in news bites or scribbled in op eds. That's my point: raise the top tax bracket through the roof, but go after the Buffet rich (Warren said they wouldn't mind the tax hike), not today's new "working wealthy."
I'm delighted that we're moving toward agreement. I would propose an increase in tax rates at $250K--not necessarily to 1982 levels (50%, $100K threshold), but steeper than for families that make only $100K (and another step to make the $50K rate yet smaller). But I'm with you on putting in an extra top rate for folks who are unbelievably wealthy.

Wow. That never happens on DCUM. Do you think we could arrange a beerfest with Barack and share our views? Let's add usernameman, too. He tries really hard (or he's smart but lazy; either way, he usually comes up with a point and his posts are grammatically correct).

[Anonymous]

Until the 50% of America that is skating starts paying taxes the rates should stay at current levels.