Losing faith in the public school system and feeling bad about it.

[Anonymous]

I've heard this, about kindergartners being "behind" at the beginning of K before. A good friend got a call from the teacher about how her son was going to need extra help because he didn't know all his letters, how to spell his name (I don't remember if he had to write it) and how to count to 35. He stayed at home with a nanny.

When I was a kid, K was for coloring and socializing. Now they expect you to come in pre-reading at the very least and reading by the end. It's a different world. If I got a call like that from a teacher I'd probably get a tutor too. But I'd ask the teacher first if s/he thought it was called for.

[Anonymous]

Well, this makes me feel even more wonderful about my kids' DCPS. Smaller class sizes, wonderful, devoted teachers, tons of learning going on. We are in our 5th year of DCPS (w/ 2 kids who started at the same time, older went 2 years private preschool) and we have had 1 bad teacher and even then that child learned a lot. The others have been incredible. Great principals, biggest class size ever was 25, most are more like 19-20. Plenty of recess and PE and specials. FCPS really gets high marks and I know a lot of people move out there for those schools. It's sad that they are stuffing the classrooms so full that kids aren't able to take advantage of all the schools have to offer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well, this makes me feel even more wonderful about my kids' DCPS. Smaller class sizes, wonderful, devoted teachers, tons of learning going on. We are in our 5th year of DCPS (w/ 2 kids who started at the same time, older went 2 years private preschool) and we have had 1 bad teacher and even then that child learned a lot. The others have been incredible. Great principals, biggest class size ever was 25, most are more like 19-20. Plenty of recess and PE and specials. FCPS really gets high marks and I know a lot of people move out there for those schools. It's sad that they are stuffing the classrooms so full that kids aren't able to take advantage of all the schools have to offer.

Sounds a bit like gloating to me. Still couldn't pay me to live in a place with a mayor who rewards his crony pals at every turn and a school system with a long record of incompetence. Maybe you'll make it through Deal if you're lucky.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:While FCPS certainly has areas it can improve on, how are they supposed to adequately deal with children knowing each other before school starts? What is expected of them other than to help children be open to new friendships and be nice to everyone? In my child's K class, some children, especially boys, don't even have the ability yet to join in and play, much less be BFF's with them.

Listen, I fully admit that I am being over-sensitive to this stuff. But it is hard when your child comes home upset and withdrawn every day from school and says nobody wants to play with him/nobody wants to be his friend. I've volunteered at the school. Lunch times are a total mess, without any real supervision. Recess appears to be the same. Nobody is encouraging the kids who know each other to branch out. The opposite appears to be happening.

I'm not asking for BFFs for my son. I just think that with a class of 25+ kids, the teachers aren't focussed on the social aspects of K - they are just trying to keep the kids in control. Yes, I am trying to do one on one playdates, etc. to help this out, but it is frustrating that the school seems so fine with the cliques...

[Anonymous]

OP, chill it out! your boy will be just fine. counting how many days the school has started? it takes time for a boy to really want to play with another boy! they will find their friends eventually. I could understand the anxiety! but this is why we come to this forum and listen to each other's opinion! learning will be fine too. when my boy started his K year, he was not as good as other boys academically. but now he is thriving in his 3rd grade AAP class! he is having a good time learning. but he is still looking for his 'friends' -- he is kind of picky!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't need to contact the teacher to find out what they are doing. I've been in the classroom week after week after week to see what "stations" are all about ... 85% of it is kids wasting time goofing around. Maybe 15% of the time the child actually learns or does something sort of like learning (i.e. listening to a story on tape or playing a computer game). So, you can keep your "guarantee" b/c YOU have not been in my child's class week after week.

I cannot agree with you that a system that allows some 2nd graders to be in a class of 30 and some 2nd graders to be in a class of 21 should be labelled as equally "gold standard." There is a big difference.

And while I was totally opposed to homework a few years ago, I have come to see that since there is so little direct-teacher interaction during the school day, homework is actually a good thing b/c it gives parents the opportunity to see what kids are supposed to be learning and to see whether the kid gets it or not. Plus, young kids need the repetition in math and practice with spelling in order to learn these things. They need homework like spelling lists and subtraction and addition. So, yes, I am wondering what is going on in my supposedly great Ffx cnty school when I see other kids in other schools and other districts do have homework. It shows that those schools has a plan for what the kids are learning and they want that info. reinforced at home. I am happy to help out with that b/c I don't think my kids are getting sufficient instruction at school.

As for SAT scores, again, how can my kids' HS qualify as "gold standard" when the average scores for the SAT are essentially equal to the average scores for SAT in the nation? And even the average scores for white kids (if you are assuming there are language/econ. barriers suppressing the average for this HS), even the ave. for white kids is just a little above the national SAT ave. So, really, my experience with Ffx Cnty schools is not "gold standard." There may be other areas/schools in our large system that are fab, but don't generalize your fab experience to every school in the county.

I was shocked by the core academic instruction in FCPS in the lower grades. My points of comparison were multiple classrooms from various size districts and even a charter in DC plus other FCPS schools.

It became common for parents to band together and hire a group tutor /teacher for about 2 short sessions a week. All they did was the same sort of thing my older child had as part of 1/2 day kindergarten in another district. There's nothing wrong with a little homework. The child needs to acclimate to having homework and it reinforces concepts . One of my FCPS children could read going into kindergarten. It just happened and the teacher didn't even know for over 6 months.

First grade had horrid class sizes . Well our base school now has full day kindergarten. I hope the instruction has improved since many children got afterschooling at a good pre-k [bus dropped them off] or by parents on their own or in the tutor groups. That school has some of the highest SOL's and DRA's in the county but the parents not the school. Sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While FCPS certainly has areas it can improve on, how are they supposed to adequately deal with children knowing each other before school starts? What is expected of them other than to help children be open to new friendships and be nice to everyone? In my child's K class, some children, especially boys, don't even have the ability yet to join in and play, much less be BFF's with them.

Listen, I fully admit that I am being over-sensitive to this stuff. But it is hard when your child comes home upset and withdrawn every day from school and says nobody wants to play with him/nobody wants to be his friend. I've volunteered at the school. Lunch times are a total mess, without any real supervision. Recess appears to be the same. Nobody is encouraging the kids who know each other to branch out. The opposite appears to be happening.

I'm not asking for BFFs for my son. I just think that with a class of 25+ kids, the teachers aren't focussed on the social aspects of K - they are just trying to keep the kids in control. Yes, I am trying to do one on one playdates, etc. to help this out, but it is frustrating that the school seems so fine with the cliques...

I think your expectations are unrealistic. It is public school kindergarten ... they are supposed to ensure the social integration of all the students? I don't think that would be ensured even at a private. Yes, it sucks to have your child so unhappy, but I think you need to look elsewhere for answers. It is not the school's responsibility to help your child fit it.

[Anonymous]

PP - that may be true, but then what exactly are we supposed to expect out of our K teachers? Apparently not anything academically as posters have stated that K is most for social integration, etc. and pounced on posters who have expressed dissatisfaction at the quality of the reading/math teaching.

I'm just confused at this point. What should we expect out of our K teachers?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP - that may be true, but then what exactly are we supposed to expect out of our K teachers? Apparently not anything academically as posters have stated that K is most for social integration, etc. and pounced on posters who have expressed dissatisfaction at the quality of the reading/math teaching.

I'm just confused at this point. What should we expect out of our K teachers?

when I was in K, we learned our numbers and didn't learn to read until first grade. What is wrong with that? "Look Jane, see spot. See spot run."
Somehow got thru HS, college, law school etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
when I was in K, we learned our numbers and didn't learn to read until first grade. What is wrong with that? "Look Jane, see spot. See spot run."
Somehow got thru HS, college, law school etc.

Gee...so helpful.

Do you just not have kids yet in elementary school or are you being intentionally dense? I'm well aware of what was just fine 25 years ago, considering I graduated from FCPS, went to an Ivy League school and top law school. But standards have changed dramatically since then.

Can somebody who has been happy with the level of public school instruction (especially in the early years) RECENTLY (based on REAL experience) actually weigh in on this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
when I was in K, we learned our numbers and didn't learn to read until first grade. What is wrong with that? "Look Jane, see spot. See spot run."
Somehow got thru HS, college, law school etc.

Gee...so helpful.

Do you just not have kids yet in elementary school or are you being intentionally dense? I'm well aware of what was just fine 25 years ago, considering I graduated from FCPS, went to an Ivy League school and top law school. But standards have changed dramatically since then.

Can somebody who has been happy with the level of public school instruction (especially in the early years) RECENTLY (based on REAL experience) actually weigh in on this?

yes I do, in AAP. And as they say around here, DC is "flourishing."
I thought I was being helpful. I guess you just want to hear a certain response. Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
when I was in K, we learned our numbers and didn't learn to read until first grade. What is wrong with that? "Look Jane, see spot. See spot run."
Somehow got thru HS, college, law school etc.

Gee...so helpful.

Do you just not have kids yet in elementary school or are you being intentionally dense? I'm well aware of what was just fine 25 years ago, considering I graduated from FCPS, went to an Ivy League school and top law school. But standards have changed dramatically since then.Can somebody who has been happy with the level of public school instruction (especially in the early years) RECENTLY (based on REAL experience) actually weigh in on this?

How? Can you elaborate (be specific). I would really be interested.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:yes I do, in AAP. And as they say around here, DC is "flourishing."
I thought I was being helpful. I guess you just want to hear a certain response. Good luck!

You thought you were being helpful by talking about your experience 25 or whatever years ago?

If you want to be helpful, talk about your kid's experience in K now that said kid is in AAP. Say - my now 4th grader learned x, y and z in K, didn't go into K reading or knowing math and ending up doing just fine.

Do you really not see the difference? The "certain response" I wanted to hear was what to expect NOW - now what was expected 25 years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, this makes me feel even more wonderful about my kids' DCPS. Smaller class sizes, wonderful, devoted teachers, tons of learning going on. We are in our 5th year of DCPS (w/ 2 kids who started at the same time, older went 2 years private preschool) and we have had 1 bad teacher and even then that child learned a lot. The others have been incredible. Great principals, biggest class size ever was 25, most are more like 19-20. Plenty of recess and PE and specials. FCPS really gets high marks and I know a lot of people move out there for those schools. It's sad that they are stuffing the classrooms so full that kids aren't able to take advantage of all the schools have to offer.

Sounds a bit like gloating to me. Still couldn't pay me to live in a place with a mayor who rewards his crony pals at every turn and a school system with a long record of incompetence. Maybe you'll make it through Deal if you're lucky.

Hmm. Mayor with cronies? DCPS history of incompentence? Trying to imagine if I could care less about that. Let me see...nope.

I suppose if worst comes to worse, and the "Nightmare Scenario" comes true...we may have to move to the suburbs come middle school. I just thank God every night that those decisions are years and years away.

[Anonymous]

Our kindergarten year so far in FCPS (all of about two weeks) doesn't appear to be the Harvard of kindergarten, but it isn't bad either. I didn't expect it to be as academic and varied as our private preschool or a private kindergarten. I wish it would be, but I wanted to put my DC in more for the social aspects of FCPS kindergarten and so I'm pretty comfortable with the level of teaching. The children are doing some drawing, reading or learning sounds and letters a little, learning the school rules and good social behavior, listening to stories, going to specials, and working with pattern shapes and graphing. The private schools nearby give about 15 minutes of homework a day which can be nice to get a child used to doing homework, but really I can just print off the same type of worksheet off the web if I really think my DC needs more practice.

Contrary to other's experiences, I went to school in a blue collar area and there were at least 5 children out of 18 who knew how to read some starting in kindergarten and just about all of them could read at least Dick and Jane by the end of the year. In 1st grade everyone was in one of three reading groups. There is more required academically in kindergarten these days, but I'm not sure the children are much smarter. The cutoff date is also later (used to be January) and more children are going to preschool which helps.