Losing faith in the public school system and feeling bad about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:[Any person who knows anything about ed policy will tell you that the socio-economics of a school are highly correlated with test scores and high achievement, etc. Those schools are more likely to have active PTAs and better resources, even though the county tries to spread the wealth a bit (as it should). That is how you wind up with Sunrise Valley and Armstrong vs. Dogwood in the exact same town. From what I hear, Dogwood does amazing work and does have great resources due to its Title I status, but people flee from it because a HUGE portion of the student population is ESOL and poor. Dogwood cannot help that it is surrounded by the county low-income housing area, but it does lead to much greater challenges than the other 2 schools surrounded by high-price property.

We live in one of the few non low income housing areas that is served by Dogwood. When our oldest started K, we did a ton of research, and in the end, chose to opt out. After 4 years at a "higher performing" school where we felt the large class size really got in the way of any differentiation, we made the choice to send ds 2 (and likely dd next year) to Dogwood. Incidentally, Dogwood has passed AYP the past 2 years, and our option for our little ones is gone anyway. The school our oldest goes to the "high performing school" did not make AYP. In our neighborhood (SFH built in the 70's, 1/2 acre lots), which for a good amount of time had originial owners with grown children, the trend of families now is definitely to send their children to Dogwood. So, the fleeing is just not happening. We have just started, and yes, my white ds is definitely in the minority, but so far, I have been very impressed with the principal, and our teachers.

I'm glad to hear your neighborhood is starting to change its attitude towards Dogwood. I was NOT saying it is a bad school at all. I think I know which neighborhood you are referring to, and it is a shame so many families were opting out for a while because that was just making things worse for Dogwood. I did know that they were now making AYP, which I think will help as well. The families in your neighborhood no longer have as many public school options to choose from (although magnet and immersion schools are still an option), so as long as they keep making AYP and don't have to offer the opt-out option under NCLB sanctions, Dogwood should continue to improve

However, some people are STILL fleeing Dogwood - I've talked 2 of these parents in recent months. One decided to actually move out of the district after she didn't get her child into Hunters Woods or Lake Anne and decided she couldn't afford private for her children. I am not endorsing this decision, but it was made just this year.

[Anonymous]

I think when there is a high concentration of poverty in one school pyramid, that those neighborhoods should be split and distributed into various higher performing schools. It's just not fair to burden one school with a high numbers of poor kids and ESOL kids. Then you get these situations where others flee the schools. It's a shame.

[Anonymous]

My impression so far is that the school day is not set up to be age appropriate for younger kids. (And pp, the last thing I want is a 6 year old coming home with homework after being stuck at school all day!). Lunchtime is barely enough time to cram food down their throats (chewing and conversation=overrated), 20 min of recess for the whole school day, PE only once or twice a week, overcrowded classrooms with few opportunities for experiental learning, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with the PP that socio-economics has a huge impact on how good the school is. I am in the Luther Jackson/Falls Church HS pyramid and I am not impressed. The sad thing is that when I grew up around here, those schools were decent, but now test scores have declined, classes are larger, poverty is higher. Nothing against kids who don't speak English, but it takes a long time to catch these kids up with the rest and it takes money and resources. Incidences of violence have gone up too.

I also agree that FCPS as a whole are good, but if you are in a bad pyramid, then you are kind of screwed.

I am just really sad to see the state of the public schools -- I know there are Woodsons and Langleys out there, but there are also Annandale High Schools and other poorly performing schools. It's sad!

Do you have any kids who have actually attended either school?

I don't know much about Falls Church HS, but I do know parents at Annandale and they've been very happy. It may be due to the fact that Annandale is fairly big and their kids have never had problems finding other kids interested in activities, the IB program, etc.

I do agree that FCPS tends to get judged based on how students in the system perform on average, or maybe even on its top-performing schools, but that's the case in Arlington and Montgomery as well. Arlington isn't judged based just on Wakefield, and Montgomery isn't assessed based just on Wheaton or Kennedy. When it comes to resources, facilities, etc., the Fairfax system is so much better than other places we've lived.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think when there is a high concentration of poverty in one school pyramid, that those neighborhoods should be split and distributed into various higher performing schools. It's just not fair to burden one school with a high numbers of poor kids and ESOL kids. Then you get these situations where others flee the schools. It's a shame.

It really is Brown v. Board-type segregation, just not based on skin color. I don't know the answer to how to fix it. I know a friend of mine in NC is highly aggravated at her kids being bussed for this purpose, but they are bussing the higher income students out of their schools, not the way you propose.

Full disclosure: we just recently moved out of Reston. We really loved Reston, and probably could have found something in our price range in the Dogwood district, but we decided against it. So I know I am part of the problem and have some guilt for not really living by example. But the Dogwood area also did not have the same amenities we were used to in our prior neighborhood, so school wasn't the only factor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think when there is a high concentration of poverty in one school pyramid, that those neighborhoods should be split and distributed into various higher performing schools. It's just not fair to burden one school with a high numbers of poor kids and ESOL kids. Then you get these situations where others flee the schools. It's a shame.

The past few decades have shown that it's really hard to "optimize" school enrollments to assure similar demographics or outcomes at different schools. Parents don't want their kids to be treated as pawns in someone else's master plan, and frequently have other options if they are unhappy (they can move to another jurisdiction, go private, or homeschool). As a result, if a school system engages in too much overt "balancing," it ends up fighting over how to distribute a shrinking pool of high-performing students while the overall system declines.

Particularly given the current residential housing patterns in Fairfax, the "best" one could probably ask for is some tinkering at the margins - and that would still set a lot of people off, as every recent redistricting proposal shows.

[Anonymous]

OP - do you have a kid in the public school system yet? I couldn't tell by your post.

My take (as a mother of a K) is that there are some things I'm not thrilled with from day 1 - class size being the big one. I don't like the emphasis on testing either - but then that is the result of posters like OP who cite falling test scores as reasons to avoid the place. So it is a damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of problem.

As a Fairfax Co. grad (K-12), I am a big believer in the school system. I think as a whole it has IMPROVED. But - yes - it isn't perfect and so much of the experience depends on the teacher.

That said, if you believe as I do, you need to give it a shot. Most people I know are actually pretty happy with it. I also know people unhappy with private school - so there are no guarantees.

I plan on continuing with public unless I feel like my kids need something else or something more.

[Anonymous]

Another FCPS grad who intended for her DCs to attend FCPS. We had a tough time with it for our oldest. K was ok/medicore. We were still 1/2 day kindergarten, but got notes home on the report card that stated the teacher only evalauted those students who seemed to do math on their own at home because math was not part of the K curriculm until spring. Ok whatever....

1st grade was horrible!!!!! Brand new teacher, who I appreciated her excited and dedication, but was handed a tough deck. She has 15 1st grade boys and 7 girls. Who would give that class makeup to a new teacher?? Class was horrible (kids throwing scissors at other kids, spitting at each other), teacher defensive of simple questions about 1st grade program (like what is the DRA test that you keep talking about). Oh and this is one of the "better" schools.

I finally gave up and moved to private when my DC was regressing and very unhappy. Now I have a happy DC again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP - do you have a kid in the public school system yet? I couldn't tell by your post.

My take (as a mother of a K) is that there are some things I'm not thrilled with from day 1 - class size being the big one. I don't like the emphasis on testing either - but then that is the result of posters like OP who cite falling test scores as reasons to avoid the place. So it is a damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of problem.

The emphasis in test scores is because of no child left behind, where schools get punished for failing test scores.

[Anonymous]

Poster 21:18 again. My other issue with FCPS is that they are all overcrowded. Having recently gone through the southwestern boundary change - I can tell you that many schools are over 100% capacity. That is crazy - where is the continguency. I am so sick of those stupid trailers. They are suppose to be temporary, but they never seem to leave. I believe that no children should have to have classes in trailer - instead the administration should try to conduct their business from a trailer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Another FCPS grad who intended for her DCs to attend FCPS. We had a tough time with it for our oldest. K was ok/medicore. We were still 1/2 day kindergarten, but got notes home on the report card that stated the teacher only evalauted those students who seemed to do math on their own at home because math was not part of the K curriculm until spring. Ok whatever....

1st grade was horrible!!!!! Brand new teacher, who I appreciated her excited and dedication, but was handed a tough deck. She has 15 1st grade boys and 7 girls. Who would give that class makeup to a new teacher?? Class was horrible (kids throwing scissors at other kids, spitting at each other), teacher defensive of simple questions about 1st grade program (like what is the DRA test that you keep talking about). Oh and this is one of the "better" schools.

I finally gave up and moved to private when my DC was regressing and very unhappy. Now I have a happy DC again.

Maybe your DC is happy because you're happier. Sounds like you wanted to take over the class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another FCPS grad who intended for her DCs to attend FCPS. We had a tough time with it for our oldest. K was ok/medicore. We were still 1/2 day kindergarten, but got notes home on the report card that stated the teacher only evalauted those students who seemed to do math on their own at home because math was not part of the K curriculm until spring. Ok whatever....

1st grade was horrible!!!!! Brand new teacher, who I appreciated her excited and dedication, but was handed a tough deck. She has 15 1st grade boys and 7 girls. Who would give that class makeup to a new teacher?? Class was horrible (kids throwing scissors at other kids, spitting at each other), teacher defensive of simple questions about 1st grade program (like what is the DRA test that you keep talking about). Oh and this is one of the "better" schools.

I finally gave up and moved to private when my DC was regressing and very unhappy. Now I have a happy DC again.

Maybe your DC is happy because you're happier. Sounds like you wanted to take over the class.

Uncalled for comment PP. Sounds like someone needed to take over the class. I don't blame the person who left that situation.

[Anonymous]

I went to FCPS from 3rd grade through 12th grade graduation. As a result of my experience, I send my child to a private school for ES. We will evaluate again private vs. public for HS.

[Anonymous]

I am the OP and I do not have a kid in FCPS but will soon. I have done a lot of research on my pyramid and I am not happy. Maybe I will be when my DS attends, but I was disappointed when I visited the schools and looked at their profiles. VERY DISAPPOINTED.

I am an artist and believe in a liberal arts education. I HATE test scores and standardized testing. I would be happy sending my kid to one of those new age, liberal arts private schools, but I can't afford it (being an artist) hahaa...

[Anonymous]

I am an artist and believe in a liberal arts education. I HATE test scores and standardized testing. I would be happy sending my kid to one of those new age, liberal arts private schools, but I can't afford it (being an artist) hahaa...

The thing about test scores is the test is a direct result of No Child Left Behind (NCLB). NCLB mandates that (soon) every student pass the state run tests, or the school is sanctioned. Principals and teachers are now rated on the score rate.

I am more concerned with the fact that my DD is learning... because in 20 years, no one will pay her to pass a test.

THE FUNNY THING IS THE PEOPLE THAT COMPLAIN THE MOST ABOUT PUBLIC SCHOOLS ARE THE ONES DESTROYING IT.

I went through public schools, colleges & universities through a PhD. The approach can work, in spite of the bureaucracy. Note I almost did not graduate HS because I was missing a semester of fine/practical art.