What Do These Scores Really Mean?

[Anonymous]

what about the other kid from above:

Verbal Comprehension 130 96%
Visual spatial 109 70%
Fluid reasoning. 104 58%
Working Memory 115 84%
Processing Speed 89 23%
Full scale. 111. 77%

The docs think anxiety a big factor. Will it be very hard to get into schools? we loved burke.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We recently had my child tested and they were diagnosed with mild-mod ADD and dysgraphia.

These were the scores from the Wechsler Intelligence Scale, IV.
Verbal Comprehension 126 96%
Perceptual Reasoning 104 61%
Working Memory 86 18%
Processing Speed 88 21%
Full Scale IQ 105 63%
General Ability 117 87%

So, the tester stated that my child is intellectually gifted, and I want to believe this.
But why is the IQ in the average range?
I'm just trying to understand this--is it because his working memory and processing speed are so low that they dragged down the overall IQ?
What number is actually more important, the Verbal Comprehension or the IQ?
If I should have posted this is another forum, I apologize in advance, just let me know where to go.
Thanks in advance.

OP, who did the testing - was it public school paychologist or private paychologist?

What other testing was done? You cannot diagnose ADHD nor dysgraphia from an IQ test. There should be other testing, both for attention and executive dysfunction and for dysgraphia. For dysgraphia you would want achievement testing (WJ OR WIAT) in spelling, reading and sentence level and paragraph level writing as well as various testing in language processing and motor skills/copying. For attention and exec function there should be testing like TOVA or IVA-CPT, tower of london, rey-osterreith, etc.

If the public school tested and all they did was IQ, you have the right to get the publich school system to pag for a private evaluation with more testing (aka an IEE).

IQ scores alone can indicate red flags but are not helpful to constructing a meaningful IEP. Given the enormous gap w/working memory, your child should have an IEP where she receives "specialized instruction" both in memory and learning techniques and in how to use accommodations and/or organizers.

[Anonymous]

"No, this would not be considered 2E. He may or may not be considered gifted, but there is no learning disability indicated since both major areas of intelligence (verbal and perceptual) are within the average range. That being said, some argue that the processing speed of 97, though average, is about 1.5 standard deviations above the GIA, and would be considered a 'frustrational profile' for a learning and is highly associated with anxiety and depression.


I'm the PP you were responding too. Like I said before, he is on the autism spectrum, which affects his reading comprehension and writing ability. But maybe autism isn't a learning disability?"

Above poster is wrong. Twice exceptional doesn't mean gifted plus learning disability. GT/LD can mean that, but 2E is meant to be a broader term to include gifted kids who also have other learning challenges including ADHD and autism. So gifted plus autistic is 2E.

I'm not sure if your son hits the "gifted" mark here. Generally, a FSIQ should not be calculated when there is a large spread (several standard deviations) between scores, and here there seems to be a pretty large spread between PRI and PSI. But a GAI (verbal + perceptive reasoning) can be calculated, since the spread between those isn't large. So GAI is your best score to use, which at 127 is just a tad below what psychologists consider "gifted." However, I'm not sure how the autism plays into the GAI; your tester should tell you this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"No, this would not be considered 2E. He may or may not be considered gifted, but there is no learning disability indicated since both major areas of intelligence (verbal and perceptual) are within the average range. That being said, some argue that the processing speed of 97, though average, is about 1.5 standard deviations above the GIA, and would be considered a 'frustrational profile' for a learning and is highly associated with anxiety and depression.


I'm the PP you were responding too. Like I said before, he is on the autism spectrum, which affects his reading comprehension and writing ability. But maybe autism isn't a learning disability?"

Above poster is wrong. Twice exceptional doesn't mean gifted plus learning disability. GT/LD can mean that, but 2E is meant to be a broader term to include gifted kids who also have other learning challenges including ADHD and autism. So gifted plus autistic is 2E.

I'm not sure if your son hits the "gifted" mark here. Generally, a FSIQ should not be calculated when there is a large spread (several standard deviations) between scores, and here there seems to be a pretty large spread between PRI and PSI. But a GAI (verbal + perceptive reasoning) can be calculated, since the spread between those isn't large. So GAI is your best score to use, which at 127 is just a tad below what psychologists consider "gifted." However, I'm not sure how the autism plays into the GAI; your tester should tell you this.

PP here. That was my point. Even the GAI doesn't meet the traditional gifted benchmark of 130.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"No, this would not be considered 2E. He may or may not be considered gifted, but there is no learning disability indicated since both major areas of intelligence (verbal and perceptual) are within the average range. That being said, some argue that the processing speed of 97, though average, is about 1.5 standard deviations above the GIA, and would be considered a 'frustrational profile' for a learning and is highly associated with anxiety and depression.


I'm the PP you were responding too. Like I said before, he is on the autism spectrum, which affects his reading comprehension and writing ability. But maybe autism isn't a learning disability?"

Above poster is wrong. Twice exceptional doesn't mean gifted plus learning disability. GT/LD can mean that, but 2E is meant to be a broader term to include gifted kids who also have other learning challenges including ADHD and autism. So gifted plus autistic is 2E.

I'm not sure if your son hits the "gifted" mark here. Generally, a FSIQ should not be calculated when there is a large spread (several standard deviations) between scores, and here there seems to be a pretty large spread between PRI and PSI. But a GAI (verbal + perceptive reasoning) can be calculated, since the spread between those isn't large. So GAI is your best score to use, which at 127 is just a tad below what psychologists consider "gifted." However, I'm not sure how the autism plays into the GAI; your tester should tell you this.

PP here. That was my point. Even the GAI doesn't meet the traditional gifted benchmark of 130.

Also, the GAI is calculated by removing the processing speed and working memory scores. The Autism diagnosis plays a role overall to the degree that it limits performance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:what about the other kid from above:

Verbal Comprehension 130 96%
Visual spatial 109 70%
Fluid reasoning. 104 58%
Working Memory 115 84%
Processing Speed 89 23%
Full scale. 111. 77%

The docs think anxiety a big factor. Will it be very hard to get into schools? we loved burke.

There are 1.5+ standard deviations between the the full scale IQ and the processing speed. Again, we have the frustrational profile. This is a student who should have extended time. Any ADHD? Looks like a great candidate for Burke. No giftedness nor learning disabilities based on these limited scores. A GAI should have been calculated to remove the depressing effect of the processing speed. That would have given a better picture of actual IQ. Good luck with Burke!

[Anonymous]

Not the OP but wouldn't the 130 verbal put this kid in a gifted category, Especially given that the testers think his anxiety affected his performance? My daughter was a bit like this kid and improved a bunch when she switched to a school she loved.

[Anonymous]

We should mention Nikola Tesla as well, when talking about twice exceptional. By all account a real genius, who really gave us electricity,(Edison fans go read up on it) but tore up his contracts worth of billions and spent his last years talking to pigeons. But, he imagined wireless communications even then. He was in fact the person who invented all needed for a radio, but Marconi put it together. The patent was later taken away from Marconi with explanation that it was Tesla who invented all the parts for it. All I am trying to point out, is that brilliant often comes with a price. My own brilliant sister, with IQ over 140 and a surgeon, can memorize thousands of pages within a couple of days, can't catch a ball or cross a street and is an awful reader otherwise, also completely OCD. So, we can just try our best to help our kids figure it out and hope what we are doing will have a positive result.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not the OP but wouldn't the 130 verbal put this kid in a gifted category, Especially given that the testers think his anxiety affected his performance? My daughter was a bit like this kid and improved a bunch when she switched to a school she loved.

The 130 score isn't the IQ score, but the score achieved only on the verbal portion which is only a part of IQ. Total IQ reflects the entirety of ones abilities and is the score used to determine giftedness---for better or worse. Alternatively, the GAI, if 130 or above is similarly used and takes WM and PS (which can be affected by attention, anxiety, etc.) out of the equation.

[Anonymous]

it's just so hard to imagine that anxiety and/or adhd wouldn't also affect the other parts of the iQ (meaning, in addition to working memory and processing speed). i mean, what if you've got PTSD. How easy is it to answer IQ test questions? My kid has none of these issues but i do think that there are probably some pretty amazing and brilliant people out there who just didn't test well the day they did their IQ because they were in la-la land of creativity, or didn't care or were anxious or were over-thinking things...