What Do These Scores Really Mean?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Huh. Hadn't considered my kid to be "gifted" - I guess with so many problems with remembering math facts and such, I didn't consider it. However, DS scored 99.6% for verbal - "very superior" range. The processing speed is so slow (the category as a whole was "low average" with one of the subtests being rock-bottom) that the whole IQ score was pulled down into the normal/high average range. Anyway, I hadn't thought of him as "gifted" and "twice exceptional."

What do you think? With the super low processing score and the 99.6% for the verbal, is this 2E?

Doesn't make too much difference as we have an IEP in place and so forth, and the school DS attends is fine, but no one ever pointed this out to us exactly this way...

Yes, he's definitely 2E. The verbal score is astounding. Please be sure to read up on 2E issues. The Hoagies site linked above has a whole section dedicated to the topic. 2E kids can get quite depressed if they aren't challenged enough in their areas of strength. We have a tendency to want to focus on their weaknesses to help them but a child that advanced in abstract reasoning will likely need just as much accomodation if not more for their strengths. If you consider that he is in the top .4 percentile that this is as far from the norm as a child in the bottom .4 percentile. It's a huge difference and much more significant than the low average processing scores as it relates to needed accomodation. I'm certainly not saying that the IEP isn't very much needed to address his difficulties so please don't misunderstand.

It's common practice to use the GAI to determine level of giftedness for children with processing speed descrepancies. I would imagine his GAI would be very high....maybe high enough to qualify as a Davidson Young Scholar or CTY. He'll always need accomodation to help him but he's got a heck of a lot of potential if given the opportunity to rise to the challenge.

Good luck.

[Anonymous]

My daughter got pretty similiar scores recently (same GAI), and super low working memory scores. I got not clear advice though on what to do with the working memory and how to help her... thougths? I have heard of COGMED, but wonder if there is anything else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do you have a % after the IQ score. That seems odd to me as the actual IQ score isn't a percent.

For example, an IQ of 132 is in the 98th percentile.

Are you sure that these scores aren't indicative of percentiles and reflect the expanded test used once the child hits the ceiling?

In any event, you really should make a follow up appointment with the tester to discuss further. I would recommend reading up on the information on testing from the Hoagies Gifted Ed website so you are more prepared for the appointment and know what to ask.

http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/testing.htm

Also, it is really common for gifted kids to have slow processing speeds. When determining giftedness it is important to use the GAI which eliminates working memory and processing. You can read more about that on the webiste as well.

Here are some posts from Eides Neurolearning blog that speak to this:

http://eideneurolearningblog.blogspot.com/2010/10/unexpected-benefits-of-poor-working.html
http://eideneurolearningblog.blogspot.com/2010/09/most-creative-brains-are-slow.html
http://eideneurolearningblog.blogspot.com/2006/06/blessings-and-burdens-of-high-iq.html
http://eideneurolearningblog.blogspot.com/2010/01/cognition-without-control-adhd-gifted.html



Moreover, verbal comphrension is the best indicator of giftedness because it measures abstract reasoning.

It would depend on the underlying scores comprising the Verbal Comprehension Composite. If a child's verbal score is reflective of a high score on Vocabulary and not Similarities (abstract verbal reasoning), then that child could be someone who's able to memorize definitions. Quite a few children from advantaged home get a high score on the Vocabulary subtest.

[Anonymous]

How old is your child?

[Anonymous]

My DS also received similarly disparate scores - 99+% for verbal and a processing speed of 25%. He is about to be 7. The psychologist who tested him told me that "gifted" kids do typically have low to average processing speeds and that often in young kids the brain develops in spurts (NOT the proper terminology) and the processing speed may well catch up in another year or two.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DS also received similarly disparate scores - 99+% for verbal and a processing speed of 25%. He is about to be 7. The psychologist who tested him told me that "gifted" kids do typically have low to average processing speeds and that often in young kids the brain develops in spurts (NOT the proper terminology) and the processing speed may well catch up in another year or two.

Same for my DS. Verbal in the 150's and a processing speed of 105.

He's very smart but we've never seen issues that would indicate that he has a learning disability, despite the low processing speed score.

My child with an LD has much more even scores across the board, interestingly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS also received similarly disparate scores - 99+% for verbal and a processing speed of 25%. He is about to be 7. The psychologist who tested him told me that "gifted" kids do typically have low to average processing speeds and that often in young kids the brain develops in spurts (NOT the proper terminology) and the processing speed may well catch up in another year or two.

Same for my DS. Verbal in the 150's and a processing speed of 105.

He's very smart but we've never seen issues that would indicate that he has a learning disability, despite the low processing speed score.

My child with an LD has much more even scores across the board, interestingly.

Well, a Verbal Composite Score in the 150's can take a person a long way! :0) Also, the Processing Speed Score of 105 is significantly lower than his verbal skills but still solidly average for age. I can see how he has the potential to always be an outstanding student!

[Anonymous]

Did you guys read the links posted from Eides Nuerolearning Blog? It speaks about the processing speeds and brain development differences in advanced children. Their prefrontal cortex develops at a much slower rate than typical children. Very cool stuff.

In general that blog has a huge amount of very interesting information on many types of special needs. It talks about the neurological findings of different conditions like autism, dyslexia, ADD, giftedness, & sensory integration disorders. It discusses the the traits of these different conditions and what the actual neurological basis is for them. There are many fMRI pictures and it's really neat to compare them to typical brains and read about their theories that link the fMRI findings to behavioral traits.

[Anonymous]

Just found this forum, been searching for answers on a similar issue. Ran into so many problems this year (5th grade) in school with executive functioning issues. We ended up pulling her out of public school early and putting her in a smaller private school to finish out the year.

Daughter's WISC-IV:

Verbal Comprehension -- 79% (112 standard score)
Perceptual Reasoning -- 99.5% (139 standard score)
Working Memory -- 1% (62 standard score)
Processing Speed -- 58% (103 standard score)

Full Scale -- 75%

Psychologist says largest descripancy she's ever seen in 30 years between two subtests. Teacher kept saying there was "no educational impact" because her grades were good even though they started to drop and she started to fall apart. She's so bright but seems to have a processing overload by the end of the day. Not ADHD, no behavioral issues -- kind of kid that falls through the cracks. Word retrieval issues though. Anyone run into this or have any thoughts? Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do you have a % after the IQ score. That seems odd to me as the actual IQ score isn't a percent.

For example, an IQ of 132 is in the 98th percentile.

Are you sure that these scores aren't indicative of percentiles and reflect the expanded test used once the child hits the ceiling?

In any event, you really should make a follow up appointment with the tester to discuss further. I would recommend reading up on the information on testing from the Hoagies Gifted Ed website so you are more prepared for the appointment and know what to ask.

http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/testing.htm

Also, it is really common for gifted kids to have slow processing speeds. When determining giftedness it is important to use the GAI which eliminates working memory and processing. You can read more about that on the webiste as well.

Here are some posts from Eides Neurolearning blog that speak to this:

http://eideneurolearningblog.blogspot.com/2010/10/unexpected-benefits-of-poor-working.html
http://eideneurolearningblog.blogspot.com/2010/09/most-creative-brains-are-slow.html
http://eideneurolearningblog.blogspot.com/2006/06/blessings-and-burdens-of-high-iq.html
http://eideneurolearningblog.blogspot.com/2010/01/cognition-without-control-adhd-gifted.html





Moreover, verbal comphrension is the best indicator of giftedness because it measures abstract reasoning.

I think the OP meant to say that those "%"s are percentiles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We recently had my child tested and they were diagnosed with mild-mod ADD and dysgraphia.

These were the scores from the Wechsler Intelligence Scale, IV.
Verbal Comprehension 126 96%
Perceptual Reasoning 104 61%
Working Memory 86 18%
Processing Speed 88 21%
Full Scale IQ 105 63%
General Ability 117 87%

So, the tester stated that my child is intellectually gifted, and I want to believe this.
But why is the IQ in the average range?
I'm just trying to understand this--is it because his working memory and processing speed are so low that they dragged down the overall IQ?
What number is actually more important, the Verbal Comprehension or the IQ?
If I should have posted this is another forum, I apologize in advance, just let me know where to go.
Thanks in advance.

Haven't read all the responses so sorry if I am redundant: With scores this discrepant, the FSIQ should not have been reported because it is a meaningless number as it purports to describe overall performance and therefore misreperesents your DC's actual ability on each scale. The GAC is the "IQ" you should be looking at, which just takes into account the Verbal and Perceptual piece. Verbal ability is considered the best indicator of intellectual ability, but s/he may not perform to his/her true ability because s/he'll have difficulty holding information in immediate awareness while working (working memory) and completing tasks with both speed and accuracy (processing speed.) So your child's giftedness is really neither here not there as it is just a number. How your child performs in the classroom is a better indicator of her likelihood to be successful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just found this forum, been searching for answers on a similar issue. Ran into so many problems this year (5th grade) in school with executive functioning issues. We ended up pulling her out of public school early and putting her in a smaller private school to finish out the year.

Daughter's WISC-IV:

Verbal Comprehension -- 79% (112 standard score)
Perceptual Reasoning -- 99.5% (139 standard score)
Working Memory -- 1% (62 standard score)
Processing Speed -- 58% (103 standard score)

Full Scale -- 75%

Psychologist says largest descripancy she's ever seen in 30 years between two subtests. Teacher kept saying there was "no educational impact" because her grades were good even though they started to drop and she started to fall apart. She's so bright but seems to have a processing overload by the end of the day. Not ADHD, no behavioral issues -- kind of kid that falls through the cracks. Word retrieval issues though. Anyone run into this or have any thoughts? Thanks.

Again, it is irresponsible to report a FSIQ with these scores! Why are psychologists doing that? It is like taking the average of 2 and 10 (6) and then saying that 6 is the same as 2 or the same as 10. It does not offer any meaningful information and should not be written in the report. Your daughter is obviously very smart and probably a very hard worker who has implemented some of her own strategies and compensated for her processing deficit, and that is why she does not qualify for special ed. - and why she is so spent at the end of the day. It's great that she has the internal resources to be so academically successful. If she has executive functioning issues, could it be ADD (without the H)? Those are often one and the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huh. Hadn't considered my kid to be "gifted" - I guess with so many problems with remembering math facts and such, I didn't consider it. However, DS scored 99.6% for verbal - "very superior" range. The processing speed is so slow (the category as a whole was "low average" with one of the subtests being rock-bottom) that the whole IQ score was pulled down into the normal/high average range. Anyway, I hadn't thought of him as "gifted" and "twice exceptional."

What do you think? With the super low processing score and the 99.6% for the verbal, is this 2E?

Doesn't make too much difference as we have an IEP in place and so forth, and the school DS attends is fine, but no one ever pointed this out to us exactly this way...

Yes, he's definitely 2E. The verbal score is astounding. Please be sure to read up on 2E issues. The Hoagies site linked above has a whole section dedicated to the topic. 2E kids can get quite depressed if they aren't challenged enough in their areas of strength. We have a tendency to want to focus on their weaknesses to help them but a child that advanced in abstract reasoning will likely need just as much accomodation if not more for their strengths. If you consider that he is in the top .4 percentile that this is as far from the norm as a child in the bottom .4 percentile. It's a huge difference and much more significant than the low average processing scores as it relates to needed accomodation. I'm certainly not saying that the IEP isn't very much needed to address his difficulties so please don't misunderstand.

It's common practice to use the GAI to determine level of giftedness for children with processing speed descrepancies. I would imagine his GAI would be very high....maybe high enough to qualify as a Davidson Young Scholar or CTY. He'll always need accomodation to help him but he's got a heck of a lot of potential if given the opportunity to rise to the challenge.

Good luck.

I'm another in this situation. Our daughter scored incredibly high on verbal (I'll have to track it down), but the processing is in the toilet. Seriously. OK, here's her scores.

Verbal Comprehension 130 98%
Perceptual Reasoning 110 75%
Working Memory 116 86%
Processing Speed 75 5%
Full Scale 113 81%

What does it all mean?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huh. Hadn't considered my kid to be "gifted" - I guess with so many problems with remembering math facts and such, I didn't consider it. However, DS scored 99.6% for verbal - "very superior" range. The processing speed is so slow (the category as a whole was "low average" with one of the subtests being rock-bottom) that the whole IQ score was pulled down into the normal/high average range. Anyway, I hadn't thought of him as "gifted" and "twice exceptional."

What do you think? With the super low processing score and the 99.6% for the verbal, is this 2E?

Doesn't make too much difference as we have an IEP in place and so forth, and the school DS attends is fine, but no one ever pointed this out to us exactly this way...

Yes, he's definitely 2E. The verbal score is astounding. Please be sure to read up on 2E issues. The Hoagies site linked above has a whole section dedicated to the topic. 2E kids can get quite depressed if they aren't challenged enough in their areas of strength. We have a tendency to want to focus on their weaknesses to help them but a child that advanced in abstract reasoning will likely need just as much accomodation if not more for their strengths. If you consider that he is in the top .4 percentile that this is as far from the norm as a child in the bottom .4 percentile. It's a huge difference and much more significant than the low average processing scores as it relates to needed accomodation. I'm certainly not saying that the IEP isn't very much needed to address his difficulties so please don't misunderstand.

It's common practice to use the GAI to determine level of giftedness for children with processing speed descrepancies. I would imagine his GAI would be very high....maybe high enough to qualify as a Davidson Young Scholar or CTY. He'll always need accomodation to help him but he's got a heck of a lot of potential if given the opportunity to rise to the challenge.

Good luck.

I'm another in this situation. Our daughter scored incredibly high on verbal (I'll have to track it down), but the processing is in the toilet. Seriously. OK, here's her scores.

Verbal Comprehension 130 98%
Perceptual Reasoning 110 75%
Working Memory 116 86%
Processing Speed 75 5%
Full Scale 113 81%

What does it all mean?

ADHD!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just found this forum, been searching for answers on a similar issue. Ran into so many problems this year (5th grade) in school with executive functioning issues. We ended up pulling her out of public school early and putting her in a smaller private school to finish out the year.

Daughter's WISC-IV:

Verbal Comprehension -- 79% (112 standard score)
Perceptual Reasoning -- 99.5% (139 standard score)
Working Memory -- 1% (62 standard score)
Processing Speed -- 58% (103 standard score)

Full Scale -- 75%

Psychologist says largest descripancy she's ever seen in 30 years between two subtests. Teacher kept saying there was "no educational impact" because her grades were good even though they started to drop and she started to fall apart. She's so bright but seems to have a processing overload by the end of the day. Not ADHD, no behavioral issues -- kind of kid that falls through the cracks. Word retrieval issues though. Anyone run into this or have any thoughts? Thanks.

Again, it is irresponsible to report a FSIQ with these scores! Why are psychologists doing that? It is like taking the average of 2 and 10 (6) and then saying that 6 is the same as 2 or the same as 10. It does not offer any meaningful information and should not be written in the report. Your daughter is obviously very smart and probably a very hard worker who has implemented some of her own strategies and compensated for her processing deficit, and that is why she does not qualify for special ed. - and why she is so spent at the end of the day. It's great that she has the internal resources to be so academically successful. If she has executive functioning issues, could it be ADD (without the H)? Those are often one and the same.

My child actually had an IEP for 3 years based on an Expressive Language Disorder. SHe LOST the IEP at the beginning of the year. Disorder still there, it didn’t magically disappear. We just didn’t realize our rights and the school told us she wasn’t eligible for services anymore based on test results. Turns out the test results were inconclusive because they were incomplete. Have an attorney to work with us now. We had an internal plan in place but the teacher chose not to follow it. My daughter’s strengths managed to mask her weaknesses. Her grades are ok but not great. It’s the internal frustration of our child that was so overlooked. Teacher didn’t seem to care that she was suffering from panic attacks, not able to ask questions that she wanted to ask, and was so wiped out at the end of the day she couldn’t do a thing to prepare for the next day. Our child is able to recognize something isn’t right. She can strategize to a degree, but it takes its toll. She ended up crashing and eventually didn’t want to go to school. What a horrible year.