Mormon's are no longer Christian: Hegseth

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no vote here. This is nothing new.

LDS have never been Christian. That is simply a fact.

Christians accept only 2 Holy Testaments and believe Jesus will come again someday, but that day has not arrived yet.

LDS believe there are 3 testaments and that Jesus has already returned. LDS and Christian beliefs are not compatible.

Anyone with a modicum of learning already knew these facts.

Perhaps more importantly, LDS doesn’t believe in the Trinity, the most central Christian belief. Mike Lee just wants in because he believes in Jesus - so do Muslims. doesn’t make them Christian.

I didn't know all this stuff about LDS. Don't they themselves identify as Christians?

PP is an ignorant troll.

Instead of one God existing in three persons, Mormons believe in a Godhead consisting of three separate and distinct beings: God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost.

First, the Catholic church does not recognize LDS baptisms as valid because while they do say "in the name of the Father son and Holy Ghost" it does not have the same meaning. They recognize all other Christian denominations. If you want to convert from LDS, you have to be baptized again.

Let's not stop there: How about the LDS website where they LITERALLY SAY they do not believe in the Trinity, but rather in the idea of the three parts of the Trinity. The Trinity is a core belief of Christianity, and thus, claiming to be Christian is a stretch. I'd call them Christian adjacent but what do I know, I'm an ignorant troll.

"Like many Christians, we believe in God the Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. However, we don’t believe in the traditional concept of the Trinity. We believe that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are three separate beings who are one in purpose." - https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/comeuntochrist/article/do-latter-day-saints-believe-in-the-trinity

I'm the poster who asked whether Mormons identified as Christians. From the bolded, it appears they do.

Like another PP, there's a DoD category called "Christians - Other". So, what's the problem? They're such snowflakes that they wanted a category with their Church's name? They're such a tiny denomination!

It's just marketing.

[Anonymous]

Mormons do not recognize believers in other denominations (Protestant, catholic , orthodox) to be Christian.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Mormons do not recognize believers in other denominations (Protestant, catholic , orthodox) to be Christian.

Not true.

https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/84052/do-lds-believers-not-accept-any-others-who-self-identify-as-christian

[Anonymous]

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) has an estimated total net worth between $250 billion and $300+ billion, making it one of the wealthiest religious institutions in the world.

WWJD?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) has an estimated total net worth between $250 billion and $300+ billion, making it one of the wealthiest religious institutions in the world.

WWJD?

A pittance compared to the Catholic Church

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no vote here. This is nothing new.

LDS have never been Christian. That is simply a fact.

Christians accept only 2 Holy Testaments and believe Jesus will come again someday, but that day has not arrived yet.

LDS believe there are 3 testaments and that Jesus has already returned. LDS and Christian beliefs are not compatible.

Anyone with a modicum of learning already knew these facts.

Perhaps more importantly, LDS doesn’t believe in the Trinity, the most central Christian belief. Mike Lee just wants in because he believes in Jesus - so do Muslims. doesn’t make them Christian.

I didn't know all this stuff about LDS. Don't they themselves identify as Christians?

PP is an ignorant troll.

Instead of one God existing in three persons, Mormons believe in a Godhead consisting of three separate and distinct beings: God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost.

First, the Catholic church does not recognize LDS baptisms as valid because while they do say "in the name of the Father son and Holy Ghost" it does not have the same meaning. They recognize all other Christian denominations. If you want to convert from LDS, you have to be baptized again.

Let's not stop there: How about the LDS website where they LITERALLY SAY they do not believe in the Trinity, but rather in the idea of the three parts of the Trinity. The Trinity is a core belief of Christianity, and thus, claiming to be Christian is a stretch. I'd call them Christian adjacent but what do I know, I'm an ignorant troll.

"Like many Christians, we believe in God the Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. However, we don’t believe in the traditional concept of the Trinity. We believe that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are three separate beings who are one in purpose." - https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/comeuntochrist/article/do-latter-day-saints-believe-in-the-trinity

The Catholic Church is not the arbiter of Christianity.

Ok - but what about what the LDS leaders say about themselves? They say they don't believe in the Trinity. They believe in a Godhead of separate beings.

Whether you care about the Catholic take or not, there is no disputing that they have been good stewards of documenting religious debate for centuries. The Catholic Church has wrestled and documented much about the Trinity, which they codified with the council of Nicea in 325, at which point the Catholic Church was the Christian Church. The reformation came out of Catholicism and the Trinity wasn't on the table. Christians believe that the Father, the Son, and The Holy Spirit are one and the same. They have different roles, are three persons, but represent the oneness of God.

I suppose you can say, well, the Reformation came out of the Catholic Church just like the Mormon Church came out of the reformation. In my view, the Mormon church is a NEW religion that builds on an old one (complete with new scriptures and revelations), while reformers built on an existing faith and, well, reformed it to their liking.

At the end of the day you can say you are Christian all you want, but if you don't believe in the Trinity, which is core to Christian faith, don't be upset when people disagree with you. Mike Lee thought he had friends who understood him, but instead found out that they were just using him for his voting block. Sad for Mike.

I'm Catholic and I feel you're splitting hairs. Mormons believe in a trinity, they say so, only in words that are not entirely the same as yours. So what? There are still three entities. Mormons are far closer to the Catholics and Protestants than Jews or Muslims, who also believe in the same God.

Come on. Let's not be ridiculous.

Mormonism is actually a lot more similar to Islam and was initially described as “American Islam” when it rose to prominence. It’s similar in that it is based in Abrahamic tradition, has belief in Jesus, and more recent prophetic revelation.

I agree.

+1, good observation

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no vote here. This is nothing new.

LDS have never been Christian. That is simply a fact.

Christians accept only 2 Holy Testaments and believe Jesus will come again someday, but that day has not arrived yet.

LDS believe there are 3 testaments and that Jesus has already returned. LDS and Christian beliefs are not compatible.

Anyone with a modicum of learning already knew these facts.

Perhaps more importantly, LDS doesn’t believe in the Trinity, the most central Christian belief. Mike Lee just wants in because he believes in Jesus - so do Muslims. doesn’t make them Christian.

I didn't know all this stuff about LDS. Don't they themselves identify as Christians?

PP is an ignorant troll.

Instead of one God existing in three persons, Mormons believe in a Godhead consisting of three separate and distinct beings: God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost.

First, the Catholic church does not recognize LDS baptisms as valid because while they do say "in the name of the Father son and Holy Ghost" it does not have the same meaning. They recognize all other Christian denominations. If you want to convert from LDS, you have to be baptized again.

Let's not stop there: How about the LDS website where they LITERALLY SAY they do not believe in the Trinity, but rather in the idea of the three parts of the Trinity. The Trinity is a core belief of Christianity, and thus, claiming to be Christian is a stretch. I'd call them Christian adjacent but what do I know, I'm an ignorant troll.

"Like many Christians, we believe in God the Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. However, we don’t believe in the traditional concept of the Trinity. We believe that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are three separate beings who are one in purpose." - https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/comeuntochrist/article/do-latter-day-saints-believe-in-the-trinity

The Catholic Church is not the arbiter of Christianity.

Ok - but what about what the LDS leaders say about themselves? They say they don't believe in the Trinity. They believe in a Godhead of separate beings.

Whether you care about the Catholic take or not, there is no disputing that they have been good stewards of documenting religious debate for centuries. The Catholic Church has wrestled and documented much about the Trinity, which they codified with the council of Nicea in 325, at which point the Catholic Church was the Christian Church. The reformation came out of Catholicism and the Trinity wasn't on the table. Christians believe that the Father, the Son, and The Holy Spirit are one and the same. They have different roles, are three persons, but represent the oneness of God.

I suppose you can say, well, the Reformation came out of the Catholic Church just like the Mormon Church came out of the reformation. In my view, the Mormon church is a NEW religion that builds on an old one (complete with new scriptures and revelations), while reformers built on an existing faith and, well, reformed it to their liking.

At the end of the day you can say you are Christian all you want, but if you don't believe in the Trinity, which is core to Christian faith, don't be upset when people disagree with you. Mike Lee thought he had friends who understood him, but instead found out that they were just using him for his voting block. Sad for Mike.

I'm Catholic and I feel you're splitting hairs. Mormons believe in a trinity, they say so, only in words that are not entirely the same as yours. So what? There are still three entities. Mormons are far closer to the Catholics and Protestants than Jews or Muslims, who also believe in the same God.

Come on. Let's not be ridiculous.

Mormonism is actually a lot more similar to Islam and was initially described as “American Islam” when it rose to prominence. It’s similar in that it is based in Abrahamic tradition, has belief in Jesus, and more recent prophetic revelation.

Catholicism is a lot more similar to paganism. As many have noted, the focus on saints and statues of saints is very pagan. Many saints can be directly linked to Roman gods. And many have observed how the holy days like Christmas and Easter are just adaptations of pagan festivals of seasons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love that Mike Lee and others like him are going through this. Well-deserved for their own role in pushing racism and bigotry towards other groups.

Mormons are in a cult and it gets very bad the higher up you are allowed.

Much is hidden and I hope one day it all comes out much like a certain island.

This is true of religion in general, isn’t it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no vote here. This is nothing new.

LDS have never been Christian. That is simply a fact.

Christians accept only 2 Holy Testaments and believe Jesus will come again someday, but that day has not arrived yet.

LDS believe there are 3 testaments and that Jesus has already returned. LDS and Christian beliefs are not compatible.

Anyone with a modicum of learning already knew these facts.

Perhaps more importantly, LDS doesn’t believe in the Trinity, the most central Christian belief. Mike Lee just wants in because he believes in Jesus - so do Muslims. doesn’t make them Christian.

I didn't know all this stuff about LDS. Don't they themselves identify as Christians?

PP is an ignorant troll.

Instead of one God existing in three persons, Mormons believe in a Godhead consisting of three separate and distinct beings: God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost.

First, the Catholic church does not recognize LDS baptisms as valid because while they do say "in the name of the Father son and Holy Ghost" it does not have the same meaning. They recognize all other Christian denominations. If you want to convert from LDS, you have to be baptized again.

Let's not stop there: How about the LDS website where they LITERALLY SAY they do not believe in the Trinity, but rather in the idea of the three parts of the Trinity. The Trinity is a core belief of Christianity, and thus, claiming to be Christian is a stretch. I'd call them Christian adjacent but what do I know, I'm an ignorant troll.

"Like many Christians, we believe in God the Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. However, we don’t believe in the traditional concept of the Trinity. We believe that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are three separate beings who are one in purpose." - https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/comeuntochrist/article/do-latter-day-saints-believe-in-the-trinity

The Catholic Church is not the arbiter of Christianity.

Ok - but what about what the LDS leaders say about themselves? They say they don't believe in the Trinity. They believe in a Godhead of separate beings.

Whether you care about the Catholic take or not, there is no disputing that they have been good stewards of documenting religious debate for centuries. The Catholic Church has wrestled and documented much about the Trinity, which they codified with the council of Nicea in 325, at which point the Catholic Church was the Christian Church. The reformation came out of Catholicism and the Trinity wasn't on the table. Christians believe that the Father, the Son, and The Holy Spirit are one and the same. They have different roles, are three persons, but represent the oneness of God.

I suppose you can say, well, the Reformation came out of the Catholic Church just like the Mormon Church came out of the reformation. In my view, the Mormon church is a NEW religion that builds on an old one (complete with new scriptures and revelations), while reformers built on an existing faith and, well, reformed it to their liking.

At the end of the day you can say you are Christian all you want, but if you don't believe in the Trinity, which is core to Christian faith, don't be upset when people disagree with you. Mike Lee thought he had friends who understood him, but instead found out that they were just using him for his voting block. Sad for Mike.

I'm Catholic and I feel you're splitting hairs. Mormons believe in a trinity, they say so, only in words that are not entirely the same as yours. So what? There are still three entities. Mormons are far closer to the Catholics and Protestants than Jews or Muslims, who also believe in the same God.

Come on. Let's not be ridiculous.

Mormonism is actually a lot more similar to Islam and was initially described as “American Islam” when it rose to prominence. It’s similar in that it is based in Abrahamic tradition, has belief in Jesus, and more recent prophetic revelation.

I agree.

+1, good observation

Prophetic revelation? That’s what we’re calling one of the original conman grifters?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At least his denomination made the list. My son who is joining the Army next year will be considered "Other Religions."

He signed up for this exclusion. He knows who and what this unqualified, racist, misogynist, classist, religious extremist is, and he signed up to salute and work for him. It's not like your son was hoodwinked.

He signed up to defend the Constitution, like his father, uncle and grandfather did. He'll still be there after Hegseth is gone.

maybe...maybe not. Christian Nationalists are very particular who they let hold guns.

Catholics are anti-choice Radical Christian nationalists

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no vote here. This is nothing new.

LDS have never been Christian. That is simply a fact.

Christians accept only 2 Holy Testaments and believe Jesus will come again someday, but that day has not arrived yet.

LDS believe there are 3 testaments and that Jesus has already returned. LDS and Christian beliefs are not compatible.

Anyone with a modicum of learning already knew these facts.

Perhaps more importantly, LDS doesn’t believe in the Trinity, the most central Christian belief. Mike Lee just wants in because he believes in Jesus - so do Muslims. doesn’t make them Christian.

I didn't know all this stuff about LDS. Don't they themselves identify as Christians?

PP is an ignorant troll.

Instead of one God existing in three persons, Mormons believe in a Godhead consisting of three separate and distinct beings: God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost.

First, the Catholic church does not recognize LDS baptisms as valid because while they do say "in the name of the Father son and Holy Ghost" it does not have the same meaning. They recognize all other Christian denominations. If you want to convert from LDS, you have to be baptized again.

Let's not stop there: How about the LDS website where they LITERALLY SAY they do not believe in the Trinity, but rather in the idea of the three parts of the Trinity. The Trinity is a core belief of Christianity, and thus, claiming to be Christian is a stretch. I'd call them Christian adjacent but what do I know, I'm an ignorant troll.

"Like many Christians, we believe in God the Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. However, we don’t believe in the traditional concept of the Trinity. We believe that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are three separate beings who are one in purpose." - https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/comeuntochrist/article/do-latter-day-saints-believe-in-the-trinity

The Catholic Church is not the arbiter of Christianity.

Ok - but what about what the LDS leaders say about themselves? They say they don't believe in the Trinity. They believe in a Godhead of separate beings.

Whether you care about the Catholic take or not, there is no disputing that they have been good stewards of documenting religious debate for centuries. The Catholic Church has wrestled and documented much about the Trinity, which they codified with the council of Nicea in 325, at which point the Catholic Church was the Christian Church. The reformation came out of Catholicism and the Trinity wasn't on the table. Christians believe that the Father, the Son, and The Holy Spirit are one and the same. They have different roles, are three persons, but represent the oneness of God.

I suppose you can say, well, the Reformation came out of the Catholic Church just like the Mormon Church came out of the reformation. In my view, the Mormon church is a NEW religion that builds on an old one (complete with new scriptures and revelations), while reformers built on an existing faith and, well, reformed it to their liking.

At the end of the day you can say you are Christian all you want, but if you don't believe in the Trinity, which is core to Christian faith, don't be upset when people disagree with you. Mike Lee thought he had friends who understood him, but instead found out that they were just using him for his voting block. Sad for Mike.

I'm Catholic and I feel you're splitting hairs. Mormons believe in a trinity, they say so, only in words that are not entirely the same as yours. So what? There are still three entities. Mormons are far closer to the Catholics and Protestants than Jews or Muslims, who also believe in the same God.

Come on. Let's not be ridiculous.

Mormonism is actually a lot more similar to Islam and was initially described as “American Islam” when it rose to prominence. It’s similar in that it is based in Abrahamic tradition, has belief in Jesus, and more recent prophetic revelation.

Catholicism is a lot more similar to paganism. As many have noted, the focus on saints and statues of saints is very pagan. Many saints can be directly linked to Roman gods. And many have observed how the holy days like Christmas and Easter are just adaptations of pagan festivals of seasons.

Astute observation!

[Anonymous]

Drawing lines distinguishing between religions is part art and part science, but I think in this case, it’s reasonable to describe Mormonism as non-Christian.

In the early days of Christianity, there arose a fairly significant dispute between Trinitarian Christians and followers of Arius. The latter group—the so-called Arians—maintained that Christ was not eternal in the same was the Father. To resolve the dispute, an ecumenical council was established—the Council of Nicaea—which settled upon the Nicene Creed. Today, the Nicene Creed is the foundational statement of faith for essentially all Christians.

In the seventh century, Muhammad started Islam, which, like Arianism, maintained that Jesus was the Messiah but disputed the Christian understanding of His Divinity. Early Christian thinkers regarded Islam as something akin to Arianism—John of Damascus, for instance, famously characterized Islam as the heresy of the Ishmaelites. But over time, it came to be understood that Islam was really just a different religion, albeit an Abrahamic monotheistic religion.

It’s not beyond dispute, but it feels eminently plausible that the reason that western thought labeled Arianism as misguided Christianity and Islam as a different religion is because, after Nicaea, people saw Trinitarianism as the price of admission for Christianity. And judged by that standard, Mormonism would naturally fall on the “other religion” side of the line.

The principal rejoinder that I see to this is that Mormons (presumably) want to be seen as Christians. But the same could presumably be said of those guys I see outside the metro with the loud speakers and incense talking about how they’re the true Israelites. And I don’t think anyone suggests that the government would have to take the position that they’re a branch of Judaism alongside Reform, Orthodox, etc.

The other rejoinder I can think of is that Mormonism and Arianism started inside of Trinitarian Christianity whereas the early Muslims were generally not Christians prior to Islam. But that seems like an artificial distinction, and, if accepted at face value; would suggest that Christianity might be labeled a denomination of Judaism, and I doubt anyone is lobbying for that.

Thus, it seems to me that treating Mormonism as a religion unto itself is defensible as a descriptive matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Drawing lines distinguishing between religions is part art and part science, but I think in this case, it’s reasonable to describe Mormonism as non-Christian.

In the early days of Christianity, there arose a fairly significant dispute between Trinitarian Christians and followers of Arius. The latter group—the so-called Arians—maintained that Christ was not eternal in the same was the Father. To resolve the dispute, an ecumenical council was established—the Council of Nicaea—which settled upon the Nicene Creed. Today, the Nicene Creed is the foundational statement of faith for essentially all Christians.

In the seventh century, Muhammad started Islam, which, like Arianism, maintained that Jesus was the Messiah but disputed the Christian understanding of His Divinity. Early Christian thinkers regarded Islam as something akin to Arianism—John of Damascus, for instance, famously characterized Islam as the heresy of the Ishmaelites. But over time, it came to be understood that Islam was really just a different religion, albeit an Abrahamic monotheistic religion.

It’s not beyond dispute, but it feels eminently plausible that the reason that western thought labeled Arianism as misguided Christianity and Islam as a different religion is because, after Nicaea, people saw Trinitarianism as the price of admission for Christianity. And judged by that standard, Mormonism would naturally fall on the “other religion” side of the line.

The principal rejoinder that I see to this is that Mormons (presumably) want to be seen as Christians. But the same could presumably be said of those guys I see outside the metro with the loud speakers and incense talking about how they’re the true Israelites. And I don’t think anyone suggests that the government would have to take the position that they’re a branch of Judaism alongside Reform, Orthodox, etc.

The other rejoinder I can think of is that Mormonism and Arianism started inside of Trinitarian Christianity whereas the early Muslims were generally not Christians prior to Islam. But that seems like an artificial distinction, and, if accepted at face value; would suggest that Christianity might be labeled a denomination of Judaism, and I doubt anyone is lobbying for that.

Thus, it seems to me that treating Mormonism as a religion unto itself is defensible as a descriptive matter.

Yea, but we're now in the 21st century. Santa ain't real, Easter Bunny ain't real, Jesus and Muhhamad were real humans but they are dead and they ain't coming back. Time for everyone to act like smart adults and move on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Drawing lines distinguishing between religions is part art and part science, but I think in this case, it’s reasonable to describe Mormonism as non-Christian.

In the early days of Christianity, there arose a fairly significant dispute between Trinitarian Christians and followers of Arius. The latter group—the so-called Arians—maintained that Christ was not eternal in the same was the Father. To resolve the dispute, an ecumenical council was established—the Council of Nicaea—which settled upon the Nicene Creed. Today, the Nicene Creed is the foundational statement of faith for essentially all Christians.

In the seventh century, Muhammad started Islam, which, like Arianism, maintained that Jesus was the Messiah but disputed the Christian understanding of His Divinity. Early Christian thinkers regarded Islam as something akin to Arianism—John of Damascus, for instance, famously characterized Islam as the heresy of the Ishmaelites. But over time, it came to be understood that Islam was really just a different religion, albeit an Abrahamic monotheistic religion.

It’s not beyond dispute, but it feels eminently plausible that the reason that western thought labeled Arianism as misguided Christianity and Islam as a different religion is because, after Nicaea, people saw Trinitarianism as the price of admission for Christianity. And judged by that standard, Mormonism would naturally fall on the “other religion” side of the line.

The principal rejoinder that I see to this is that Mormons (presumably) want to be seen as Christians. But the same could presumably be said of those guys I see outside the metro with the loud speakers and incense talking about how they’re the true Israelites. And I don’t think anyone suggests that the government would have to take the position that they’re a branch of Judaism alongside Reform, Orthodox, etc.

The other rejoinder I can think of is that Mormonism and Arianism started inside of Trinitarian Christianity whereas the early Muslims were generally not Christians prior to Islam. But that seems like an artificial distinction, and, if accepted at face value; would suggest that Christianity might be labeled a denomination of Judaism, and I doubt anyone is lobbying for that.

Thus, it seems to me that treating Mormonism as a religion unto itself is defensible as a descriptive matter.

Yea, but we're now in the 21st century. Santa ain't real, Easter Bunny ain't real, Jesus and Muhhamad were real humans but they are dead and they ain't coming back. Time for everyone to act like smart adults and move on.

“Be smart,” says the poster whose trite cliches are not even responsive to the discussion at hand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Drawing lines distinguishing between religions is part art and part science, but I think in this case, it’s reasonable to describe Mormonism as non-Christian.

In the early days of Christianity, there arose a fairly significant dispute between Trinitarian Christians and followers of Arius. The latter group—the so-called Arians—maintained that Christ was not eternal in the same was the Father. To resolve the dispute, an ecumenical council was established—the Council of Nicaea—which settled upon the Nicene Creed. Today, the Nicene Creed is the foundational statement of faith for essentially all Christians.

In the seventh century, Muhammad started Islam, which, like Arianism, maintained that Jesus was the Messiah but disputed the Christian understanding of His Divinity. Early Christian thinkers regarded Islam as something akin to Arianism—John of Damascus, for instance, famously characterized Islam as the heresy of the Ishmaelites. But over time, it came to be understood that Islam was really just a different religion, albeit an Abrahamic monotheistic religion.

It’s not beyond dispute, but it feels eminently plausible that the reason that western thought labeled Arianism as misguided Christianity and Islam as a different religion is because, after Nicaea, people saw Trinitarianism as the price of admission for Christianity. And judged by that standard, Mormonism would naturally fall on the “other religion” side of the line.

The principal rejoinder that I see to this is that Mormons (presumably) want to be seen as Christians. But the same could presumably be said of those guys I see outside the metro with the loud speakers and incense talking about how they’re the true Israelites. And I don’t think anyone suggests that the government would have to take the position that they’re a branch of Judaism alongside Reform, Orthodox, etc.

The other rejoinder I can think of is that Mormonism and Arianism started inside of Trinitarian Christianity whereas the early Muslims were generally not Christians prior to Islam. But that seems like an artificial distinction, and, if accepted at face value; would suggest that Christianity might be labeled a denomination of Judaism, and I doubt anyone is lobbying for that.

Thus, it seems to me that treating Mormonism as a religion unto itself is defensible as a descriptive matter.

Yea, but we're now in the 21st century. Santa ain't real, Easter Bunny ain't real, Jesus and Muhhamad were real humans but they are dead and they ain't coming back. Time for everyone to act like smart adults and move on.

“Be smart,” says the poster whose trite cliches are not even responsive to the discussion at hand.

Exactly, anyone discussing religions in a serious context in 2026 needs to have their head examined. The enlightened world is over religious cults.