Do normal smart kids get into ivy and T30 schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My unhooked 1520 SAT public school kid is normal smart and was admitted to one of HYPSM early. Fairly well rounded with a lot of leadership, and submitted arts portfolio with some related awards- but nothing major like Young Arts.

What major?

They applied psychology and their art form.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People here are so out of touch. I know plenty of standard smart kids who can’t get into state flagships. A lot are lucky to get into the mid tier UCs let alone Berkeley or UCLA. College admissions are just that hard

At our Bay Area public school, almost every student in the top 9% of the class (ELC) gets into Berkeley or UCLA, and quite a lot outside of the top 9% get accepted to UCSD.

Berkeley is unpredictable and some admits are not in the top 9%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a junior who has straight As, highest rigor, 1500+ SAT, 2 varsity sports that he should be captain senior year, summer internships, academic clubs and competitions but no national or international recognition in anything.

He is such a hard working kid. I thought a 1500 would be good enough but he is trying to get 1550 on his SAT. Not sure how big of a difference 1510 or 1550 is.

I have seen some superstar kids get rejected from all the top schools and making me nervous.

Sorry for being very direct and maybe harsh: all unhooked well rounded kid from public schools have about 0.1% chances to get into famous schools like Harvard, Princeton, Columbia, Stanford.

You should be sorry for being inaccurate. Every year our run-of-the-mill public high school of 2000+ students in a Dallas-Fort Worth suburb has 2-3 unhooked well-rounded kids going to HYPS and 3-5 to the rest of the Ivies/t15. Your "0.1%" is a gross exaggeration and is meaningless without context anyway. And your "public schools are trash" bias is showing.

2 unhooked out of 2,000 is 0.1% exactly how much the post...

Are you assuming *everyone* from a public high school is applying to college, much less a t15?? You must be living in a bubble. 50% of the 2,000 have no business attending college. They can barely read and write with ACT below 19! And the other 40% would be happy to go to any college in Texas. At our public school, if an unhooked well-rounded kid is top 5% in their class (i.e., ranked top 25 within their class of roughly 500), they would be applying to t30 schools around the country. Among these 25, around half typically would go to UT Austin and A&M, while the rest would go to t30 with several ending up at HYPS. It's hard, but not 0.1% hard. You can't define 0.1% with the "general population" as the denominator. If you do, then the chance of a random private school kid would be less than 1% too. Which is why I said the context isn't clear in my previous post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a junior who has straight As, highest rigor, 1500+ SAT, 2 varsity sports that he should be captain senior year, summer internships, academic clubs and competitions but no national or international recognition in anything.

He is such a hard working kid. I thought a 1500 would be good enough but he is trying to get 1550 on his SAT. Not sure how big of a difference 1510 or 1550 is.

I have seen some superstar kids get rejected from all the top schools and making me nervous.

If your definition of success is to get in to one or more of the “top schools,” you are indeed setting yourself and your DS up for failure.

Take a broader view of success. In addition to the “reaches for all” schools, find targets and safeties that would be a great fit for him. Find schools where he would thrive - including many that are not T10 or T20.

Hard truth: It is an unpredictable process. Apply widely and see what happens. But please know that what you e seen this year is not uncommon. MANY amazing kids with a 4.0 (unweighted), 12+ APs, and 1550+ do not get into a single T10 or T20.

Here’s our DC’s story: They have the stats I listed above. Non-STEM major who was one of a handful in their grade to take Calc BC junior year (5 on exam), Physics C (both parts) senior year, as well as the full range of other APs.

Hooked at two T10 schools (legacy) but did not get in to either. Was waitlisted at the HYPSM legacy school and ED deferred + RD rejected at the other T10 legacy school.

But DC did get in to a different T10 plus Cornell with a fellowship they did not even know about or apply for. (Plus massive merit aid and special opportunities at two T50 schools.)

This is a STRANGE and often UNPREDICTABLE process. Encourage your DC to give the applications his very best effort, but please do yourself a favor - expect nothing when it comes to the T10 and T20 schools. Nothing is guaranteed.

So keep hoping for the best while taking a much wider view of “success”. If your child is bright and resilient, they will bloom wherever they are planted. THAT is success!

[Anonymous]

They do but you need a perfect GPA and perfect score on the SATs to even have a shot

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a junior who has straight As, highest rigor, 1500+ SAT, 2 varsity sports that he should be captain senior year, summer internships, academic clubs and competitions but no national or international recognition in anything.

He is such a hard working kid. I thought a 1500 would be good enough but he is trying to get 1550 on his SAT. Not sure how big of a difference 1510 or 1550 is.

I have seen some superstar kids get rejected from all the top schools and making me nervous.

If your definition of success is to get in to one or more of the “top schools,” you are indeed setting yourself and your DS up for failure.

Take a broader view of success. In addition to the “reaches for all” schools, find targets and safeties that would be a great fit for him. Find schools where he would thrive - including many that are not T10 or T20.

Hard truth: It is an unpredictable process. Apply widely and see what happens. But please know that what you e seen this year is not uncommon. MANY amazing kids with a 4.0 (unweighted), 12+ APs, and 1550+ do not get into a single T10 or T20.

Here’s our DC’s story: They have the stats I listed above. Non-STEM major who was one of a handful in their grade to take Calc BC junior year (5 on exam), Physics C (both parts) senior year, as well as the full range of other APs.

Hooked at two T10 schools (legacy) but did not get in to either. Was waitlisted at the HYPSM legacy school and ED deferred + RD rejected at the other T10 legacy school.

But DC did get in to a different T10 plus Cornell with a fellowship they did not even know about or apply for. (Plus massive merit aid and special opportunities at two T50 schools.)

This is a STRANGE and often UNPREDICTABLE process. Encourage your DC to give the applications his very best effort, but please do yourself a favor - expect nothing when it comes to the T10 and T20 schools. Nothing is guaranteed.

So keep hoping for the best while taking a much wider view of “success”. If your child is bright and resilient, they will bloom wherever they are planted. THAT is success!

Great comment.

And my 2 cents: forget about ivyes. There is this misconception that ivy league schools are the best and that it is not necessarily true. MIT, CMU, Stanford are better than any ivy on engineering. JHU is better than any ivy on BME, and pre-med. And list can go on.

Kids go to Ivy league schools first for connections and prestige and second for education. That's not the case with other top *non ivyes) where kids go to learn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a junior who has straight As, highest rigor, 1500+ SAT, 2 varsity sports that he should be captain senior year, summer internships, academic clubs and competitions but no national or international recognition in anything.

He is such a hard working kid. I thought a 1500 would be good enough but he is trying to get 1550 on his SAT. Not sure how big of a difference 1510 or 1550 is.

I have seen some superstar kids get rejected from all the top schools and making me nervous.

If your definition of success is to get in to one or more of the “top schools,” you are indeed setting yourself and your DS up for failure.

Take a broader view of success. In addition to the “reaches for all” schools, find targets and safeties that would be a great fit for him. Find schools where he would thrive - including many that are not T10 or T20.

Hard truth: It is an unpredictable process. Apply widely and see what happens. But please know that what you e seen this year is not uncommon. MANY amazing kids with a 4.0 (unweighted), 12+ APs, and 1550+ do not get into a single T10 or T20.

Here’s our DC’s story: They have the stats I listed above. Non-STEM major who was one of a handful in their grade to take Calc BC junior year (5 on exam), Physics C (both parts) senior year, as well as the full range of other APs.

Hooked at two T10 schools (legacy) but did not get in to either. Was waitlisted at the HYPSM legacy school and ED deferred + RD rejected at the other T10 legacy school.

But DC did get in to a different T10 plus Cornell with a fellowship they did not even know about or apply for. (Plus massive merit aid and special opportunities at two T50 schools.)

This is a STRANGE and often UNPREDICTABLE process. Encourage your DC to give the applications his very best effort, but please do yourself a favor - expect nothing when it comes to the T10 and T20 schools. Nothing is guaranteed.

So keep hoping for the best while taking a much wider view of “success”. If your child is bright and resilient, they will bloom wherever they are planted. THAT is success!

Great comment.

And my 2 cents: forget about ivyes. There is this misconception that ivy league schools are the best and that it is not necessarily true. MIT, CMU, Stanford are better than any ivy on engineering. JHU is better than any ivy on BME, and pre-med. And list can go on.

Kids go to Ivy league schools first for connections and prestige and second for education. That's not the case with other top *non ivyes) where kids go to learn.

Brown beats JHU for premed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a junior who has straight As, highest rigor, 1500+ SAT, 2 varsity sports that he should be captain senior year, summer internships, academic clubs and competitions but no national or international recognition in anything.

He is such a hard working kid. I thought a 1500 would be good enough but he is trying to get 1550 on his SAT. Not sure how big of a difference 1510 or 1550 is.

I have seen some superstar kids get rejected from all the top schools and making me nervous.

If your definition of success is to get in to one or more of the “top schools,” you are indeed setting yourself and your DS up for failure.

Take a broader view of success. In addition to the “reaches for all” schools, find targets and safeties that would be a great fit for him. Find schools where he would thrive - including many that are not T10 or T20.

Hard truth: It is an unpredictable process. Apply widely and see what happens. But please know that what you e seen this year is not uncommon. MANY amazing kids with a 4.0 (unweighted), 12+ APs, and 1550+ do not get into a single T10 or T20.

Here’s our DC’s story: They have the stats I listed above. Non-STEM major who was one of a handful in their grade to take Calc BC junior year (5 on exam), Physics C (both parts) senior year, as well as the full range of other APs.

Hooked at two T10 schools (legacy) but did not get in to either. Was waitlisted at the HYPSM legacy school and ED deferred + RD rejected at the other T10 legacy school.

But DC did get in to a different T10 plus Cornell with a fellowship they did not even know about or apply for. (Plus massive merit aid and special opportunities at two T50 schools.)

This is a STRANGE and often UNPREDICTABLE process. Encourage your DC to give the applications his very best effort, but please do yourself a favor - expect nothing when it comes to the T10 and T20 schools. Nothing is guaranteed.

So keep hoping for the best while taking a much wider view of “success”. If your child is bright and resilient, they will bloom wherever they are planted. THAT is success!

Great comment.

And my 2 cents: forget about ivyes. There is this misconception that ivy league schools are the best and that it is not necessarily true. MIT, CMU, Stanford are better than any ivy on engineering. JHU is better than any ivy on BME, and pre-med. And list can go on.

Kids go to Ivy league schools first for connections and prestige and second for education. That's not the case with other top *non ivyes) where kids go to learn.

Brown beats JHU for premed

How so? Because of grade inflation?

[Anonymous]

Imo, you cant control or predict outcomes, but you can make smart choices to increase odds of success. Focus on creating a strong narrative and show alignment to intended major. If possible, choose a less popular major or an interdisciplinary path. Choose schools that make sense for your kid, look at schools that have a track record/history from your hs, dont just apply to a random list of top schools. Spend lots of time on essays, educate yourself about the school/program/culture, and show fit. Be specific, dont generalize. Be explicit about what you want to do and how you will make an impact. You don't need fancy EC or major awards, but you need to distinguish yourself in a positive way. Highlighting experiences which show intellectual curiosity, a deep commitment to something, and be likeable! This worked for my kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, normal smart kids are getting into Ivy and T30, even from our public. We're not in a district where families game the system - kids are doing their sports and their ECs and enjoying their high school lives. The Ivy and Stanford kids are great students + interesting kids.

Tell this to superstar kids having max scores and national awards that did not get accepted to any ivy league schools but to top stem schools. Ivy schools have a questionable admission process that favors legacies and private school kids. Obviously, there are exceptions but not many.

I get your point as there are many kids who don't get in.. I didn't say all the superstar kids get in.

But I will say, it's not always the max score/academic superstars who are getting into HYPS from our public. I'm the PP. Those max score/max AP kids tend to go to Cornell, Hopkins, Northwestern, UCLA. So far we have 10 kids who have announced that they are headed to an Ivy out of 400 students (and more to Top 30 schools). But at our school 25% head to 2 year colleges and 10% to the military/trades. So not sure it's fair to compare apples to apples to private schools that are test in and only have 100 students. If we take the top 100 from our school, then that's 10% headed to Ivies and not everyone has announced yet.

Where/which high school? Sounds dubious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a junior who has straight As, highest rigor, 1500+ SAT, 2 varsity sports that he should be captain senior year, summer internships, academic clubs and competitions but no national or international recognition in anything.

He is such a hard working kid. I thought a 1500 would be good enough but he is trying to get 1550 on his SAT. Not sure how big of a difference 1510 or 1550 is.

I have seen some superstar kids get rejected from all the top schools and making me nervous.

If your definition of success is to get in to one or more of the “top schools,” you are indeed setting yourself and your DS up for failure.

Take a broader view of success. In addition to the “reaches for all” schools, find targets and safeties that would be a great fit for him. Find schools where he would thrive - including many that are not T10 or T20.

Hard truth: It is an unpredictable process. Apply widely and see what happens. But please know that what you e seen this year is not uncommon. MANY amazing kids with a 4.0 (unweighted), 12+ APs, and 1550+ do not get into a single T10 or T20.

Here’s our DC’s story: They have the stats I listed above. Non-STEM major who was one of a handful in their grade to take Calc BC junior year (5 on exam), Physics C (both parts) senior year, as well as the full range of other APs.

Hooked at two T10 schools (legacy) but did not get in to either. Was waitlisted at the HYPSM legacy school and ED deferred + RD rejected at the other T10 legacy school.

But DC did get in to a different T10 plus Cornell with a fellowship they did not even know about or apply for. (Plus massive merit aid and special opportunities at two T50 schools.)

This is a STRANGE and often UNPREDICTABLE process. Encourage your DC to give the applications his very best effort, but please do yourself a favor - expect nothing when it comes to the T10 and T20 schools. Nothing is guaranteed.

So keep hoping for the best while taking a much wider view of “success”. If your child is bright and resilient, they will bloom wherever they are planted. THAT is success!

Great comment.

And my 2 cents: forget about ivyes. There is this misconception that ivy league schools are the best and that it is not necessarily true. MIT, CMU, Stanford are better than any ivy on engineering. JHU is better than any ivy on BME, and pre-med. And list can go on.

Kids go to Ivy league schools first for connections and prestige and second for education. That's not the case with other top *non ivyes) where kids go to learn.

Ppl definitely go to Cornell to learn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People here are so out of touch. I know plenty of standard smart kids who can’t get into state flagships. A lot are lucky to get into the mid tier UCs let alone Berkeley or UCLA. College admissions are just that hard

At our Bay Area public school, almost every student in the top 9% of the class (ELC) gets into Berkeley or UCLA, and quite a lot outside of the top 9% get accepted to UCSD.

Berkeley is unpredictable and some admits are not in the top 9%.

I say that’s bullshit. At my high school in San Diego, the valedictorian literally got denied from both UCLA and Berkeley

[Anonymous]

Top kids in Georgia (from top private and public schools before anyone makes a snarky comment about the quality of schools down here)) routinely get denied at GA Tech and UGA. Things are different now, and we (parents and students) need to be more open-minded about the options out there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People here are so out of touch. I know plenty of standard smart kids who can’t get into state flagships. A lot are lucky to get into the mid tier UCs let alone Berkeley or UCLA. College admissions are just that hard

OP said straight As, highest rigor, and 1500+SAT. If all three things are actually true, then the odds of getting into UVA, michigan, UNC, and UCB for those who are in-state in those places are exceeding high. When you hear of people who don't, this is what they mean: "4.0 gpa"--they mean weighted, they do not understand that in Virginia and many states 4.0 weighted is in the bottom half of the graduating class.
"All As" they mean mix of A and A-, which is barely above average in many schools.
"highest rigor" they mean 10+ APs or a mix of DE and AP or all DE. They have no concept that almost half the students at some high schools takes 10 AP and/or DE. The top students are on entirely different tracks and have an AP list and transcript that shows true highest rigor, no extra sudy halls, no skipped hard-grading teacher.

I have been in the field for years and have never seen one single student anywhere in the region that has a true 4.0 unweighted in the absolute highest rigor, with a 1500+ who did not get into UVA in state. It does not happen.

UVA, yes! UMich and UNC probably. But not UCB from the DMV area. Those who got into UCB/UCLA here were also accepted by some top or mid-tier Ivies (not Cornell).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My unhooked 1520 SAT public school kid is normal smart and was admitted to one of HYPSM early. Fairly well rounded with a lot of leadership, and submitted arts portfolio with some related awards- but nothing major like Young Arts.

What major?

They applied psychology and their art form.

Art seems to be the new trick this year for undersubscribed majors!