Better prep for law school: philosophy/political science or philosophy/history?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Poli sci is the default pre-law major for a lot of students. Which is a good reason to major in anything but poli sci if you want to go to law school.

There is no good reason for a prospective law student to major in poli sci unless that happens to be their interest. Law isn't all about politics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of the best lawyers I know majored in disciplines that demand and cultivate analytic skill, like chemistry, math, and music.

I'm a STEM major who went to law school and graduated at the top of my class.

I thought the law degree was easier than my undergrad degree.

That's generally true, it's those that attended less rigorous institutions and less academically rigorous programs of study that really struggle. Of course it's difficult to graduate in the top ranks a T14 schools because everyone has high cognitive abilities and those in less serious programs and institutions don't get admitted in the first place.

Not true. If you have a high enough GPA and LSAT, no one cares where you went or what you studied. I had a fluff major at a liberal arts college and got into every T14. I knew plenty of people in law school who went to undergrads I’d never heard of and studied elementary ed.

Elementary ed majors from SUNY Potsdam are graduating at the top of the class at Cornell Law? I have my doubts.

That's great, but you are arguing with a statement that nobody made.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just major in something you find interesting and know you will get easy As in.

Key advice: Go to a less rigorous college that offers great merit aid to save money, get As and focus on prepping for LSAT to get a high score, then get into a prestige law school and no one will ever care where you went to college. Grades plus LSAT matter more than your major or college.

FWIW, most of my peers at law school who attended a more rigorous undergrad had a much easier time doing well at law school.

+1
I felt very well prepared for law school coming from my Ivy

I went to a no name college and finished first in my 1L year at a top 20. Number two was a Dartmouth grad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of the best lawyers I know majored in disciplines that demand and cultivate analytic skill, like chemistry, math, and music.

I'm a STEM major who went to law school and graduated at the top of my class.

I thought the law degree was easier than my undergrad degree.

That's generally true, it's those that attended less rigorous institutions and less academically rigorous programs of study that really struggle. Of course it's difficult to graduate in the top ranks a T14 schools because everyone has high cognitive abilities and those in less serious programs and institutions don't get admitted in the first place.

Not true. If you have a high enough GPA and LSAT, no one cares where you went or what you studied. I had a fluff major at a liberal arts college and got into every T14. I knew plenty of people in law school who went to undergrads I’d never heard of and studied elementary ed.

+1

I went to an open-admissions urban arts school with like zero rigor. After I took the LSAT, I had a lot unsolicited scholarship offers coming in, including one from a top 20.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of the best lawyers I know majored in disciplines that demand and cultivate analytic skill, like chemistry, math, and music.

I'm a STEM major who went to law school and graduated at the top of my class.

I thought the law degree was easier than my undergrad degree.

My neighbor was advising my kid that getting a STEM degree would be a great major for undergrad and then going to law school. The STEM degree would be beneficial for understanding cases dealing with tech/science businesses or patents. He was an appeals attorney for death row inmates before retiring.

For "cases"? Meh. That's what your experts are for.

You don’t sound like a lawyer. I agree with the lawyer’s advice. It’s super useful to have knowledge in your area of the law.

Well, I am. And I'm a tax lawyer who did not study accounting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A lot of these replies seem like they are from people whose experience with law school admissions is somewhat out of date

Once upon a time, it was all about GPA and LSAT. Since Covid, everyone has a 4.0 GPA and 175 LSAT scores are much more common. For a Top 14 law school, admission today is much more like admission for the most selective undergrad institutions. In addition to top grades/test scores, an applicant needs to have a story line, showing a course of study that intersects with extracurricular activities, summer experiences and - ideally - at least a year of professional work that can all be woven into a narrative about law school is the next logical step. The undergraduate major doesn’t matter as long as it is a logical part of the applicant’s narrative

^^ Posted by one of the mommies who is "gathering current law school admissions information" for their high school sophomore, lol.

Ma'am, this "an applicant needs to have a story line, showing a course of study that intersects with extracurricular activities" stuff is just nonsense. Oh, and those of us who went to law school a while ago are more than familiar with law school admissions given that we hire summer associates -- they talk about this stuff a lot.

[Anonymous]

I'm a law professor and have been for a long time. My best students over the years have come from very different backgrounds. Some went to highly ranked undergrads, others went to schools that I literally had never heard of. Majors also vary...some of my best students have been history, engineering, political science/government, and English majors. The best students don't get lost in the weeds, have the ability to think logically/rationally, have some intuition about human behavior/motivation, have the ability to draw inferences, and can see both sides of arguments. So whatever major teaches/hones those skills are the best ones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just major in something you find interesting and know you will get easy As in.

Key advice: Go to a less rigorous college that offers great merit aid to save money, get As and focus on prepping for LSAT to get a high score, then get into a prestige law school and no one will ever care where you went to college. Grades plus LSAT matter more than your major or college.

FWIW, most of my peers at law school who attended a more rigorous undergrad had a much easier time doing well at law school.

Meh. It’s pure IQ and being willing to spend time understanding test taking skills that matters for LS. There is no particular preparation that matters. I took the route of less rigorous undergrad with a lot of merit aid and that worked out fine.

PP here, and to call my undergrad "less rigorous" would be an understatement, and I graduated from a big law school class at a highly ranked law school cum laude. And I found it pretty easy. But that doesn't change the fact that my peers who went to rigorous colleges had, for the most part, a much easier time of it than those who didn't. Were there Ivy students who struggled? Sure, and a friend who'd gone to Stanford barely made it through. And there were some students like me who'd never been challenged at all who did well easily. But for the most part, high rigor = an easier time adjusting to law school. Academically speaking anyway.

And it's definitely not "pure IQ and being willing to spend time understanding test taking skills." Plenty of folks with very high IQs and excellent test taking skills who don't even make it through.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a law professor and have been for a long time. My best students over the years have come from very different backgrounds. Some went to highly ranked undergrads, others went to schools that I literally had never heard of. Majors also vary...some of my best students have been history, engineering, political science/government, and English majors. The best students don't get lost in the weeds, have the ability to think logically/rationally, have some intuition about human behavior/motivation, have the ability to draw inferences, and can see both sides of arguments. So whatever major teaches/hones those skills are the best ones.

This is what it is. One hundred percent. I am not convinced there is any major that teaches it. Studying certain things (syllogisms/logic, how to do a close read, writing clearly, persuasion/argument/rhetoric/fallacy, looking at solving problems creatively like in higher level math, how movements in art necessarily arise out of everything that came before, etc) may hone some of it, but for the most part it's just a natural ability to "think like a lawyer."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of these replies seem like they are from people whose experience with law school admissions is somewhat out of date

Once upon a time, it was all about GPA and LSAT. Since Covid, everyone has a 4.0 GPA and 175 LSAT scores are much more common. For a Top 14 law school, admission today is much more like admission for the most selective undergrad institutions. In addition to top grades/test scores, an applicant needs to have a story line, showing a course of study that intersects with extracurricular activities, summer experiences and - ideally - at least a year of professional work that can all be woven into a narrative about law school is the next logical step. The undergraduate major doesn’t matter as long as it is a logical part of the applicant’s narrative

^^ Posted by one of the mommies who is "gathering current law school admissions information" for their high school sophomore, lol.

Ma'am, this "an applicant needs to have a story line, showing a course of study that intersects with extracurricular activities" stuff is just nonsense. Oh, and those of us who went to law school a while ago are more than familiar with law school admissions given that we hire summer associates -- they talk about this stuff a lot.

I work in law school administration and can tell you that your perception of T14 admissions is outdated, despite what conversations you might have had with 1Ls trying to impress you

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Poli sci is the default pre-law major for a lot of students. Which is a good reason to major in anything but poli sci if you want to go to law school.

There is no good reason for a prospective law student to major in poli sci unless that happens to be their interest. Law isn't all about politics.

Law and political science do overlap in the field of constitutional law and public policy. Law is written and enacted by elected politicians and their staffs. Law shapes public policy and is used as a guardrail, gate, and change agent. DS is pursuing political science, philosophy and economics. He’ll probably end up with a double major and minor. His career goals are going to law school, becoming a public defender, working for progressive causes and politicians and running for office.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Poli sci is the default pre-law major for a lot of students. Which is a good reason to major in anything but poli sci if you want to go to law school.

There is no good reason for a prospective law student to major in poli sci unless that happens to be their interest. Law isn't all about politics.

Law and political science do overlap in the field of constitutional law and public policy. Law is written and enacted by elected politicians and their staffs. Law shapes public policy and is used as a guardrail, gate, and change agent. DS is pursuing political science, philosophy and economics. He’ll probably end up with a double major and minor. His career goals are going to law school, becoming a public defender, working for progressive causes and politicians and running for office.

I'm a lawyer and once had a friend's new boyfriend go "Oh I understand I majored in Poli Sci" and then just was completely wrong about the 4th Amendment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I definitely see the value of philosophy: no area of study in the humanities and social sciences does better in teaching students to think critically and analytically. At least a minor in philosophy is useful. But in terms of political science or history, which is better as a background? Political science focuses largely on how institutions work and obviously understanding the workings of the state is helpful (but make sure to take some political theory courses too). History is good in terms of constructing narratives and careful documentation. Thoughts?

It doesn't matter, they should study what interests them

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of these replies seem like they are from people whose experience with law school admissions is somewhat out of date

Once upon a time, it was all about GPA and LSAT. Since Covid, everyone has a 4.0 GPA and 175 LSAT scores are much more common. For a Top 14 law school, admission today is much more like admission for the most selective undergrad institutions. In addition to top grades/test scores, an applicant needs to have a story line, showing a course of study that intersects with extracurricular activities, summer experiences and - ideally - at least a year of professional work that can all be woven into a narrative about law school is the next logical step. The undergraduate major doesn’t matter as long as it is a logical part of the applicant’s narrative

^^ Posted by one of the mommies who is "gathering current law school admissions information" for their high school sophomore, lol.

Ma'am, this "an applicant needs to have a story line, showing a course of study that intersects with extracurricular activities" stuff is just nonsense. Oh, and those of us who went to law school a while ago are more than familiar with law school admissions given that we hire summer associates -- they talk about this stuff a lot.

I work in law school administration and can tell you that your perception of T14 admissions is outdated, despite what conversations you might have had with 1Ls trying to impress you

What are you talking about? I didn't even provide "my perception of T14 admissions" ... so not sure how you could know that they are "outdated" lol.

You don't work in "law school administration," lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Poli sci is the default pre-law major for a lot of students. Which is a good reason to major in anything but poli sci if you want to go to law school.

There is no good reason for a prospective law student to major in poli sci unless that happens to be their interest. Law isn't all about politics.

Law and political science do overlap in the field of constitutional law and public policy. Law is written and enacted by elected politicians and their staffs. Law shapes public policy and is used as a guardrail, gate, and change agent. DS is pursuing political science, philosophy and economics. He’ll probably end up with a double major and minor. His career goals are going to law school, becoming a public defender, working for progressive causes and politicians and running for office.

I'm a lawyer and once had a friend's new boyfriend go "Oh I understand I majored in Poli Sci" and then just was completely wrong about the 4th Amendment.

So since your friend’s boyfriend didn’t know what he was talking about then all political science classes focusing on constitutional law are useless for future lawyers? Not all political science grads are bright but neither are all law school grads!