The Daily Podcast on CS majors 9.29.25

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Finished listening to this podcast;

First, coding does not equal Compute Science. Rambling on the history of code.org as it's a bad thing? nearly every field uses some sort of code. Even "Prompt Engineering" is beginning to look like code. I don't think teaching kids to code was bad.

The industry over hired and over paid in the last 5 - 10 years; they hired a lot of non CS majors to fill in roles. They even hired music majors that passed coding bootcamps.

CS majors will find jobs just not the dream $500K ones.

The AI state is right now like the early 1990s for CS - we haven't felt the boom yet. There are a lot of future billionaires working on sustainable startups.

+ 100%. Gone are the $200K starting salaries, but that doesn't mean CS is dead. Most companies require tech people, and CS is not just about simple coding. Yes, AI can do some coding, but you still need a human to review and QA.

AI can also replace writers, btw, and just like AI produced code, you still need someone to review the AI writing.

This actually isn’t true at all…my kid’s two friends that just graduated are making between $300k-$500k…my kid already has a 2027 offer at $250k.

These kids all have extensive ML and other AI capabilities which at least right now are very much in high demand.

The ideal CS person is like a mind-meld with the AI. They are massively more efficient but they also correct AI mistakes in real time.

Doing what? Unless your kids are doing quant finance or just got their PhDs in CS, they're not worth that much for any organization.

Well…Stripe and Meta and Anthropic think they are.

They have significant ML expertise and are proficient developers and know how to leverage AI exceptionally well. These kids can add value nearly Day 1 and need minimal training.

They are all coming from top schools…which I believe was a takeaway from this podcast.

Stripe nor meta pay thatch for entry level employees. Your kid needs a ton of training going into anthropic, you sound incredibly ignorant.

Sounds like you are crazy jealous. Both Meta and Stripe absolutely are hiring kids into various groups where they are paying these kinds of dollars. Anthropic is also hiring these kids who are coming from top schools…again with tons of skills and Math and CS degrees. They are paying PhDs over $1MM.

These kids are coming from top 10 schools.

I am literally just the messenger. You can decide to not believe it and continue to believe what you want.

but they aren't. here's a search for a senior dev in San Francisco (boosting the salary) at anthropic, who you claim should be paying over $1million: https://job-boards.greenhouse.io/anthropic/jobs/4738780008...the pay band is $300,000 - $320,000 USD

This isn’t a PhD position.

50% of their employees have PhDs. You can get into anthropic positions with any degree. There's no such thing as a "PhD" role at anthropic. You don't know what you're taking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Finished listening to this podcast;

First, coding does not equal Compute Science. Rambling on the history of code.org as it's a bad thing? nearly every field uses some sort of code. Even "Prompt Engineering" is beginning to look like code. I don't think teaching kids to code was bad.

The industry over hired and over paid in the last 5 - 10 years; they hired a lot of non CS majors to fill in roles. They even hired music majors that passed coding bootcamps.

CS majors will find jobs just not the dream $500K ones.

The AI state is right now like the early 1990s for CS - we haven't felt the boom yet. There are a lot of future billionaires working on sustainable startups.

+ 100%. Gone are the $200K starting salaries, but that doesn't mean CS is dead. Most companies require tech people, and CS is not just about simple coding. Yes, AI can do some coding, but you still need a human to review and QA.

AI can also replace writers, btw, and just like AI produced code, you still need someone to review the AI writing.

This actually isn’t true at all…my kid’s two friends that just graduated are making between $300k-$500k…my kid already has a 2027 offer at $250k.

These kids all have extensive ML and other AI capabilities which at least right now are very much in high demand.

The ideal CS person is like a mind-meld with the AI. They are massively more efficient but they also correct AI mistakes in real time.

Doing what? Unless your kids are doing quant finance or just got their PhDs in CS, they're not worth that much for any organization.

Well…Stripe and Meta and Anthropic think they are.

They have significant ML expertise and are proficient developers and know how to leverage AI exceptionally well. These kids can add value nearly Day 1 and need minimal training.

They are all coming from top schools…which I believe was a takeaway from this podcast.

Stripe nor meta pay thatch for entry level employees. Your kid needs a ton of training going into anthropic, you sound incredibly ignorant.

Sounds like you are crazy jealous. Both Meta and Stripe absolutely are hiring kids into various groups where they are paying these kinds of dollars. Anthropic is also hiring these kids who are coming from top schools…again with tons of skills and Math and CS degrees. They are paying PhDs over $1MM.

These kids are coming from top 10 schools.

I am literally just the messenger. You can decide to not believe it and continue to believe what you want.

but they aren't. here's a search for a senior dev in San Francisco (boosting the salary) at anthropic, who you claim should be paying over $1million: https://job-boards.greenhouse.io/anthropic/jobs/4738780008...the pay band is $300,000 - $320,000 USD

This isn’t a PhD position.

That's not how tech works.

[Anonymous]

Interesting that they compare the unemployment rate of recent graduates - IIRC they used biology, humanities and CS - to determine CS graduates were "worse off." Their hiring numbers showed CS a % point or two behind, but didn't compare salaries or job type.

The premise was unsubstantiated and sounded to me like the story found the data to support itself rather than the data telling the story. And yes, she's in the process of writing a book.

It's a tough market all-around and nobody promised any college graduate a strong job-market/economy for recent college graduates. CS graduates are still getting hired at far higher salaries than your average humanities major.

[Anonymous]

From the WSJ on 8/26:

The job market for entry-level workers is in a continued slump. The unemployment rate for new college graduates was 4.8% in June, according to the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, compared with 4% for all workers.

While AI is part of the reason for the doldrums, there is a bright spot when it comes to workers with actual experience in machine learning. They’re in their early 20s, they have AI know-how, and a bunch of them are making $1 million a year.

“There is a significant salary difference between a machine-learning engineer job and a software-engineer job,” says Anil K. Gupta, a professor at the University of Maryland’s Robert H. Smith School of Business and co-lead of its AI job tracker.

Databricks, the data-analytics software company whose value has skyrocketed during the AI boom, plans to triple the number of people it hires right out of school this year, in part because of their familiarity with AI.

Many jobs for machine-learning engineers that require zero to a year of experience pay upward of $200,000 a year at companies like Roblox, according to Levels.fyi. The compensation-data provider has seen 42 user-submitted offers of over $1 million from AI companies. Of those, nine candidates had less than a decade of corporate workplace experience, though some might have had Ph.D.s.

At Scale AI, which recently underwent a reverse-acquihire deal with Meta Platforms, around 15% of employees are under the age of 25. Right out of school, employees at Scale AI can expect base salaries of around $200,000 a year.

“We’re eager to hire AI-native professionals, and many of those candidates are early in their careers,” says Ashli Shiftan, Scale AI’s head of people.

Lily Ma, after graduating in December with an AI-concentration computer-science major from Carnegie Mellon University, applied for 30 to 40 jobs. She had interviews with about a dozen. “I did notice that having research experience helps a lot,” she says. (She also interned at Tesla.)

The 22-year-old landed at Scale AI but turned down some tempting offers, including from a startup that offered a 1% stake in the company.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just listened. My take away is the increased/continued importance of liberal arts. We can't predict the job market so many years out, so much better to focus on the critical thinking and writing skills that will be important to any job, regardless of AI or new technology.

This is what every businessperson has been saying for the last five years.
Send your kids to schools where they learn to think critically, analyze, speak up, and write effectively. Progressive high schools. That's why they tend to outperform in the last two cycles in college placements.

College professors need these kids in their classes. They are begging T20 AO for more of them. Private high schools focus on these skills more than public high schools.

yes because English departments are closing due to a lack of interest.

Name one

Marymount in VA

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/quick-takes/2023/02/26/marymount-eliminates-liberal-arts-degrees

Others are having to restructure or be combined with other depts.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/03/06/the-end-of-the-english-major

Even in the UK

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/dec/05/the-guardian-view-on-humanities-in-universities-closing-english-literature-courses-signals-a-crisis

Easy enough to google it.

Marymount eliminated degrees in mathematics science and economics, which I think we can both agree are extraordinarily popular-something tells me their 43 million dollar endowment may be more of a factor.

From the article you linked:

Jeffrey Cohen, a butter-voiced, bearded man who has been the dean of the humanities at A.S.U. since 2018, told me. On taking the position, he hired a marketing firm, Fervor, to sell the humanities better. It ran a market survey of eight hundred and twenty-six students.

“It was eye-opening to see their responses,” Cohen said. “In general, they loved the humanities and rated them higher than their other courses. However, they were unclear on what the humanities were—two hundred and twenty-two thought that biology was a humanity.”
The students also had no idea which careers humanities study led to, so Cohen decided to teach a course called Making a Career with a Humanities Major.

Doesn't sound like a lack of interest, just ignorance.

. Adjacent fields aren’t included in humanities tallies, and some of them are booming. Harvard’s history-of-science department has seen a fifty-per-cent increase in its majors in the past five years. The humanities creature who recites Cavafy at parties might fade away, but students are still getting their vitamins. There’s a lot of ethics in bioethics, after all.

The article emphasizes that students are mostly being convinced by institutions that STEM is all that matters, but finding themselves interested in the humanities, just lost. The article is pretty optimistic and just shows that the humanities need to change how they've traditionally approached things-attracting students by hermiting in the corner with their books.

The UK has a complete different issue and their economy is different. I want to narrow into the US, and stick to it.

Yes, and Marymount also eliminated their English major. So, I gave you an example.

In any case, people may have a passion for a certain subject, but most people can't make a decent living following their passion. I would love that if it were true. DD loves musical theater, but she knows there's very little chance that she will make a decent living following her passion.

It's a bad one though. For someone arguing that there's no interest in the humanities, you really are going to use an example of a tiny school with no endowment shuttering multiple lucrative programs as your main example? I'm happy to see you didn't read any of the article you sent. Classic DCUM.

LOL you asked me to name one example where a college got rid of the English major, I gave you one, and you claim it's a bad example.

Here's the thread:

me: yes because English departments are closing due to a lack of interest.
you: Name one
me: Marymount in VA
you: that's a bad example because the school is tiny and has no endowment.

Classic DCUM, indeed. LOL

Do you think it is reasonable to assert that economics is a declining field due to lack of interest, because Marymount university eliminated it as a field of study too?

I'll repeat:

me: yes because English departments are closing due to a lack of interest.
you: Name one
me: Marymount in VA

They dropped English because it was dying there. English major enrollment has been declining in almost every college (New Yorker talks about ASU and Harvard as an example), whereas Econ major in a lot of colleges are still growing. Also, a BS in Econ is heavy on stats.

Again, it's easy enough to Google it.

Hey I asked you a question.
Do you think it is reasonable to assert that economics is a declining field due to lack of interest, because Marymount university eliminated it as a field of study too?

Hey, I provided an example and you refuse to accept it.

Do you think English is not a dying major? Every stat disagrees with you.

Other than the ones you linked? It’s really interesting seeing someone emphasize how ignorant they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From the WSJ on 8/26:

The job market for entry-level workers is in a continued slump. The unemployment rate for new college graduates was 4.8% in June, according to the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, compared with 4% for all workers.

While AI is part of the reason for the doldrums, there is a bright spot when it comes to workers with actual experience in machine learning. They’re in their early 20s, they have AI know-how, and a bunch of them are making $1 million a year.

“There is a significant salary difference between a machine-learning engineer job and a software-engineer job,” says Anil K. Gupta, a professor at the University of Maryland’s Robert H. Smith School of Business and co-lead of its AI job tracker.

Databricks, the data-analytics software company whose value has skyrocketed during the AI boom, plans to triple the number of people it hires right out of school this year, in part because of their familiarity with AI.

Many jobs for machine-learning engineers that require zero to a year of experience pay upward of $200,000 a year at companies like Roblox, according to Levels.fyi. The compensation-data provider has seen 42 user-submitted offers of over $1 million from AI companies. Of those, nine candidates had less than a decade of corporate workplace experience, though some might have had Ph.D.s.

At Scale AI, which recently underwent a reverse-acquihire deal with Meta Platforms, around 15% of employees are under the age of 25. Right out of school, employees at Scale AI can expect base salaries of around $200,000 a year.

“We’re eager to hire AI-native professionals, and many of those candidates are early in their careers,” says Ashli Shiftan, Scale AI’s head of people.

Lily Ma, after graduating in December with an AI-concentration computer-science major from Carnegie Mellon University, applied for 30 to 40 jobs. She had interviews with about a dozen. “I did notice that having research experience helps a lot,” she says. (She also interned at Tesla.)

The 22-year-old landed at Scale AI but turned down some tempting offers, including from a startup that offered a 1% stake in the company.

So they aren’t paying entry workers $500,000!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Finished listening to this podcast;

First, coding does not equal Compute Science. Rambling on the history of code.org as it's a bad thing? nearly every field uses some sort of code. Even "Prompt Engineering" is beginning to look like code. I don't think teaching kids to code was bad.

The industry over hired and over paid in the last 5 - 10 years; they hired a lot of non CS majors to fill in roles. They even hired music majors that passed coding bootcamps.

CS majors will find jobs just not the dream $500K ones.

The AI state is right now like the early 1990s for CS - we haven't felt the boom yet. There are a lot of future billionaires working on sustainable startups.

+ 100%. Gone are the $200K starting salaries, but that doesn't mean CS is dead. Most companies require tech people, and CS is not just about simple coding. Yes, AI can do some coding, but you still need a human to review and QA.

AI can also replace writers, btw, and just like AI produced code, you still need someone to review the AI writing.

This actually isn’t true at all…my kid’s two friends that just graduated are making between $300k-$500k…my kid already has a 2027 offer at $250k.

These kids all have extensive ML and other AI capabilities which at least right now are very much in high demand.

The ideal CS person is like a mind-meld with the AI. They are massively more efficient but they also correct AI mistakes in real time.

Doing what? Unless your kids are doing quant finance or just got their PhDs in CS, they're not worth that much for any organization.

Well…Stripe and Meta and Anthropic think they are.

They have significant ML expertise and are proficient developers and know how to leverage AI exceptionally well. These kids can add value nearly Day 1 and need minimal training.

They are all coming from top schools…which I believe was a takeaway from this podcast.

Stripe nor meta pay thatch for entry level employees. Your kid needs a ton of training going into anthropic, you sound incredibly ignorant.

Sounds like you are crazy jealous. Both Meta and Stripe absolutely are hiring kids into various groups where they are paying these kinds of dollars. Anthropic is also hiring these kids who are coming from top schools…again with tons of skills and Math and CS degrees. They are paying PhDs over $1MM.

These kids are coming from top 10 schools.

I am literally just the messenger. You can decide to not believe it and continue to believe what you want.

but they aren't. here's a search for a senior dev in San Francisco (boosting the salary) at anthropic, who you claim should be paying over $1million: https://job-boards.greenhouse.io/anthropic/jobs/4738780008...the pay band is $300,000 - $320,000 USD

This isn’t a PhD position.

50% of their employees have PhDs. You can get into anthropic positions with any degree. There's no such thing as a "PhD" role at anthropic. You don't know what you're taking about.

No...you don't know what you are talking about...these companies are absolutely paying PhDs over $1MM...academia can't keep any of these kids because the private sector is paying so much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just listened. My take away is the increased/continued importance of liberal arts. We can't predict the job market so many years out, so much better to focus on the critical thinking and writing skills that will be important to any job, regardless of AI or new technology.

This is what every businessperson has been saying for the last five years.
Send your kids to schools where they learn to think critically, analyze, speak up, and write effectively. Progressive high schools. That's why they tend to outperform in the last two cycles in college placements.

College professors need these kids in their classes. They are begging T20 AO for more of them. Private high schools focus on these skills more than public high schools.

yes because English departments are closing due to a lack of interest.

Name one

Marymount in VA

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/quick-takes/2023/02/26/marymount-eliminates-liberal-arts-degrees

Others are having to restructure or be combined with other depts.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/03/06/the-end-of-the-english-major

Even in the UK

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/dec/05/the-guardian-view-on-humanities-in-universities-closing-english-literature-courses-signals-a-crisis

Easy enough to google it.

Marymount eliminated degrees in mathematics science and economics, which I think we can both agree are extraordinarily popular-something tells me their 43 million dollar endowment may be more of a factor.

From the article you linked:

Jeffrey Cohen, a butter-voiced, bearded man who has been the dean of the humanities at A.S.U. since 2018, told me. On taking the position, he hired a marketing firm, Fervor, to sell the humanities better. It ran a market survey of eight hundred and twenty-six students.

“It was eye-opening to see their responses,” Cohen said. “In general, they loved the humanities and rated them higher than their other courses. However, they were unclear on what the humanities were—two hundred and twenty-two thought that biology was a humanity.”
The students also had no idea which careers humanities study led to, so Cohen decided to teach a course called Making a Career with a Humanities Major.

Doesn't sound like a lack of interest, just ignorance.

. Adjacent fields aren’t included in humanities tallies, and some of them are booming. Harvard’s history-of-science department has seen a fifty-per-cent increase in its majors in the past five years. The humanities creature who recites Cavafy at parties might fade away, but students are still getting their vitamins. There’s a lot of ethics in bioethics, after all.

The article emphasizes that students are mostly being convinced by institutions that STEM is all that matters, but finding themselves interested in the humanities, just lost. The article is pretty optimistic and just shows that the humanities need to change how they've traditionally approached things-attracting students by hermiting in the corner with their books.

The UK has a complete different issue and their economy is different. I want to narrow into the US, and stick to it.

Yes, and Marymount also eliminated their English major. So, I gave you an example.

In any case, people may have a passion for a certain subject, but most people can't make a decent living following their passion. I would love that if it were true. DD loves musical theater, but she knows there's very little chance that she will make a decent living following her passion.

It's a bad one though. For someone arguing that there's no interest in the humanities, you really are going to use an example of a tiny school with no endowment shuttering multiple lucrative programs as your main example? I'm happy to see you didn't read any of the article you sent. Classic DCUM.

LOL you asked me to name one example where a college got rid of the English major, I gave you one, and you claim it's a bad example.

Here's the thread:

me: yes because English departments are closing due to a lack of interest.
you: Name one
me: Marymount in VA
you: that's a bad example because the school is tiny and has no endowment.

Classic DCUM, indeed. LOL

Do you think it is reasonable to assert that economics is a declining field due to lack of interest, because Marymount university eliminated it as a field of study too?

I'll repeat:

me: yes because English departments are closing due to a lack of interest.
you: Name one
me: Marymount in VA

They dropped English because it was dying there. English major enrollment has been declining in almost every college (New Yorker talks about ASU and Harvard as an example), whereas Econ major in a lot of colleges are still growing. Also, a BS in Econ is heavy on stats.

Again, it's easy enough to Google it.

Marymount university is a struggling university with poor financial health. How you’re connecting that problem to English doing is really strange.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the WSJ on 8/26:

The job market for entry-level workers is in a continued slump. The unemployment rate for new college graduates was 4.8% in June, according to the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, compared with 4% for all workers.

While AI is part of the reason for the doldrums, there is a bright spot when it comes to workers with actual experience in machine learning. They’re in their early 20s, they have AI know-how, and a bunch of them are making $1 million a year.

“There is a significant salary difference between a machine-learning engineer job and a software-engineer job,” says Anil K. Gupta, a professor at the University of Maryland’s Robert H. Smith School of Business and co-lead of its AI job tracker.

Databricks, the data-analytics software company whose value has skyrocketed during the AI boom, plans to triple the number of people it hires right out of school this year, in part because of their familiarity with AI.

Many jobs for machine-learning engineers that require zero to a year of experience pay upward of $200,000 a year at companies like Roblox, according to Levels.fyi. The compensation-data provider has seen 42 user-submitted offers of over $1 million from AI companies. Of those, nine candidates had less than a decade of corporate workplace experience, though some might have had Ph.D.s.

At Scale AI, which recently underwent a reverse-acquihire deal with Meta Platforms, around 15% of employees are under the age of 25. Right out of school, employees at Scale AI can expect base salaries of around $200,000 a year.

“We’re eager to hire AI-native professionals, and many of those candidates are early in their careers,” says Ashli Shiftan, Scale AI’s head of people.

Lily Ma, after graduating in December with an AI-concentration computer-science major from Carnegie Mellon University, applied for 30 to 40 jobs. She had interviews with about a dozen. “I did notice that having research experience helps a lot,” she says. (She also interned at Tesla.)

The 22-year-old landed at Scale AI but turned down some tempting offers, including from a startup that offered a 1% stake in the company.

So they aren’t paying entry workers $500,000!

You do know there are bonuses, right? Hence, base compensation.

[Anonymous]

My junior CS major just accepted an internship for next summer with an option to begin FT employment during fall 2026 with no degree. $135k + stock options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the WSJ on 8/26:

The job market for entry-level workers is in a continued slump. The unemployment rate for new college graduates was 4.8% in June, according to the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, compared with 4% for all workers.

While AI is part of the reason for the doldrums, there is a bright spot when it comes to workers with actual experience in machine learning. They’re in their early 20s, they have AI know-how, and a bunch of them are making $1 million a year.

“There is a significant salary difference between a machine-learning engineer job and a software-engineer job,” says Anil K. Gupta, a professor at the University of Maryland’s Robert H. Smith School of Business and co-lead of its AI job tracker.

Databricks, the data-analytics software company whose value has skyrocketed during the AI boom, plans to triple the number of people it hires right out of school this year, in part because of their familiarity with AI.

Many jobs for machine-learning engineers that require zero to a year of experience pay upward of $200,000 a year at companies like Roblox, according to Levels.fyi. The compensation-data provider has seen 42 user-submitted offers of over $1 million from AI companies. Of those, nine candidates had less than a decade of corporate workplace experience, though some might have had Ph.D.s.

At Scale AI, which recently underwent a reverse-acquihire deal with Meta Platforms, around 15% of employees are under the age of 25. Right out of school, employees at Scale AI can expect base salaries of around $200,000 a year.

“We’re eager to hire AI-native professionals, and many of those candidates are early in their careers,” says Ashli Shiftan, Scale AI’s head of people.

Lily Ma, after graduating in December with an AI-concentration computer-science major from Carnegie Mellon University, applied for 30 to 40 jobs. She had interviews with about a dozen. “I did notice that having research experience helps a lot,” she says. (She also interned at Tesla.)

The 22-year-old landed at Scale AI but turned down some tempting offers, including from a startup that offered a 1% stake in the company.

So they aren’t paying entry workers $500,000!

You do know there are bonuses, right? Hence, base compensation.

That was not the assertion. Try again. Go find a $500,000 salary position- they’re plentiful in fact! This should be easy for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just listened. My take away is the increased/continued importance of liberal arts. We can't predict the job market so many years out, so much better to focus on the critical thinking and writing skills that will be important to any job, regardless of AI or new technology.

This is what every businessperson has been saying for the last five years.
Send your kids to schools where they learn to think critically, analyze, speak up, and write effectively. Progressive high schools. That's why they tend to outperform in the last two cycles in college placements.

College professors need these kids in their classes. They are begging T20 AO for more of them. Private high schools focus on these skills more than public high schools.

yes because English departments are closing due to a lack of interest.

Name one

Marymount in VA

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/quick-takes/2023/02/26/marymount-eliminates-liberal-arts-degrees

Others are having to restructure or be combined with other depts.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/03/06/the-end-of-the-english-major

Even in the UK

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/dec/05/the-guardian-view-on-humanities-in-universities-closing-english-literature-courses-signals-a-crisis

Easy enough to google it.

Marymount eliminated degrees in mathematics science and economics, which I think we can both agree are extraordinarily popular-something tells me their 43 million dollar endowment may be more of a factor.

From the article you linked:

Jeffrey Cohen, a butter-voiced, bearded man who has been the dean of the humanities at A.S.U. since 2018, told me. On taking the position, he hired a marketing firm, Fervor, to sell the humanities better. It ran a market survey of eight hundred and twenty-six students.

“It was eye-opening to see their responses,” Cohen said. “In general, they loved the humanities and rated them higher than their other courses. However, they were unclear on what the humanities were—two hundred and twenty-two thought that biology was a humanity.”
The students also had no idea which careers humanities study led to, so Cohen decided to teach a course called Making a Career with a Humanities Major.

Doesn't sound like a lack of interest, just ignorance.

. Adjacent fields aren’t included in humanities tallies, and some of them are booming. Harvard’s history-of-science department has seen a fifty-per-cent increase in its majors in the past five years. The humanities creature who recites Cavafy at parties might fade away, but students are still getting their vitamins. There’s a lot of ethics in bioethics, after all.

The article emphasizes that students are mostly being convinced by institutions that STEM is all that matters, but finding themselves interested in the humanities, just lost. The article is pretty optimistic and just shows that the humanities need to change how they've traditionally approached things-attracting students by hermiting in the corner with their books.

The UK has a complete different issue and their economy is different. I want to narrow into the US, and stick to it.

Yes, and Marymount also eliminated their English major. So, I gave you an example.

In any case, people may have a passion for a certain subject, but most people can't make a decent living following their passion. I would love that if it were true. DD loves musical theater, but she knows there's very little chance that she will make a decent living following her passion.

It's a bad one though. For someone arguing that there's no interest in the humanities, you really are going to use an example of a tiny school with no endowment shuttering multiple lucrative programs as your main example? I'm happy to see you didn't read any of the article you sent. Classic DCUM.

LOL you asked me to name one example where a college got rid of the English major, I gave you one, and you claim it's a bad example.

Here's the thread:

me: yes because English departments are closing due to a lack of interest.
you: Name one
me: Marymount in VA
you: that's a bad example because the school is tiny and has no endowment.

Classic DCUM, indeed. LOL

Do you think it is reasonable to assert that economics is a declining field due to lack of interest, because Marymount university eliminated it as a field of study too?

I'll repeat:

me: yes because English departments are closing due to a lack of interest.
you: Name one
me: Marymount in VA

They dropped English because it was dying there. English major enrollment has been declining in almost every college (New Yorker talks about ASU and Harvard as an example), whereas Econ major in a lot of colleges are still growing. Also, a BS in Econ is heavy on stats.

Again, it's easy enough to Google it.

Marymount university is a struggling university with poor financial health. How you’re connecting that problem to English doing is really strange.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/northern-virginia/as-enrollment-drops-at-some-universities-two-virginia-schools-see-record-growth/3981471/%3famp=1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the WSJ on 8/26:

The job market for entry-level workers is in a continued slump. The unemployment rate for new college graduates was 4.8% in June, according to the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, compared with 4% for all workers.

While AI is part of the reason for the doldrums, there is a bright spot when it comes to workers with actual experience in machine learning. They’re in their early 20s, they have AI know-how, and a bunch of them are making $1 million a year.

“There is a significant salary difference between a machine-learning engineer job and a software-engineer job,” says Anil K. Gupta, a professor at the University of Maryland’s Robert H. Smith School of Business and co-lead of its AI job tracker.

Databricks, the data-analytics software company whose value has skyrocketed during the AI boom, plans to triple the number of people it hires right out of school this year, in part because of their familiarity with AI.

Many jobs for machine-learning engineers that require zero to a year of experience pay upward of $200,000 a year at companies like Roblox, according to Levels.fyi. The compensation-data provider has seen 42 user-submitted offers of over $1 million from AI companies. Of those, nine candidates had less than a decade of corporate workplace experience, though some might have had Ph.D.s.

At Scale AI, which recently underwent a reverse-acquihire deal with Meta Platforms, around 15% of employees are under the age of 25. Right out of school, employees at Scale AI can expect base salaries of around $200,000 a year.

“We’re eager to hire AI-native professionals, and many of those candidates are early in their careers,” says Ashli Shiftan, Scale AI’s head of people.

Lily Ma, after graduating in December with an AI-concentration computer-science major from Carnegie Mellon University, applied for 30 to 40 jobs. She had interviews with about a dozen. “I did notice that having research experience helps a lot,” she says. (She also interned at Tesla.)

The 22-year-old landed at Scale AI but turned down some tempting offers, including from a startup that offered a 1% stake in the company.

So they aren’t paying entry workers $500,000!

You do know there are bonuses, right? Hence, base compensation.

That was not the assertion. Try again. Go find a $500,000 salary position- they’re plentiful in fact! This should be easy for you.

Uh...the assertion is they are making $300k-$500k...not that's it all from base salary. Again, whatever makes you feel good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just listened. My take away is the increased/continued importance of liberal arts. We can't predict the job market so many years out, so much better to focus on the critical thinking and writing skills that will be important to any job, regardless of AI or new technology.

This is what every businessperson has been saying for the last five years.
Send your kids to schools where they learn to think critically, analyze, speak up, and write effectively. Progressive high schools. That's why they tend to outperform in the last two cycles in college placements.

College professors need these kids in their classes. They are begging T20 AO for more of them. Private high schools focus on these skills more than public high schools.

yes because English departments are closing due to a lack of interest.

Name one

Marymount in VA

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/quick-takes/2023/02/26/marymount-eliminates-liberal-arts-degrees

Others are having to restructure or be combined with other depts.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/03/06/the-end-of-the-english-major

Even in the UK

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/dec/05/the-guardian-view-on-humanities-in-universities-closing-english-literature-courses-signals-a-crisis

Easy enough to google it.

Marymount eliminated degrees in mathematics science and economics, which I think we can both agree are extraordinarily popular-something tells me their 43 million dollar endowment may be more of a factor.

From the article you linked:

Jeffrey Cohen, a butter-voiced, bearded man who has been the dean of the humanities at A.S.U. since 2018, told me. On taking the position, he hired a marketing firm, Fervor, to sell the humanities better. It ran a market survey of eight hundred and twenty-six students.

“It was eye-opening to see their responses,” Cohen said. “In general, they loved the humanities and rated them higher than their other courses. However, they were unclear on what the humanities were—two hundred and twenty-two thought that biology was a humanity.”
The students also had no idea which careers humanities study led to, so Cohen decided to teach a course called Making a Career with a Humanities Major.

Doesn't sound like a lack of interest, just ignorance.

. Adjacent fields aren’t included in humanities tallies, and some of them are booming. Harvard’s history-of-science department has seen a fifty-per-cent increase in its majors in the past five years. The humanities creature who recites Cavafy at parties might fade away, but students are still getting their vitamins. There’s a lot of ethics in bioethics, after all.

The article emphasizes that students are mostly being convinced by institutions that STEM is all that matters, but finding themselves interested in the humanities, just lost. The article is pretty optimistic and just shows that the humanities need to change how they've traditionally approached things-attracting students by hermiting in the corner with their books.

The UK has a complete different issue and their economy is different. I want to narrow into the US, and stick to it.

Yes, and Marymount also eliminated their English major. So, I gave you an example.

In any case, people may have a passion for a certain subject, but most people can't make a decent living following their passion. I would love that if it were true. DD loves musical theater, but she knows there's very little chance that she will make a decent living following her passion.

It's a bad one though. For someone arguing that there's no interest in the humanities, you really are going to use an example of a tiny school with no endowment shuttering multiple lucrative programs as your main example? I'm happy to see you didn't read any of the article you sent. Classic DCUM.

LOL you asked me to name one example where a college got rid of the English major, I gave you one, and you claim it's a bad example.

Here's the thread:

me: yes because English departments are closing due to a lack of interest.
you: Name one
me: Marymount in VA
you: that's a bad example because the school is tiny and has no endowment.

Classic DCUM, indeed. LOL

Do you think it is reasonable to assert that economics is a declining field due to lack of interest, because Marymount university eliminated it as a field of study too?

I'll repeat:

me: yes because English departments are closing due to a lack of interest.
you: Name one
me: Marymount in VA

They dropped English because it was dying there. English major enrollment has been declining in almost every college (New Yorker talks about ASU and Harvard as an example), whereas Econ major in a lot of colleges are still growing. Also, a BS in Econ is heavy on stats.

Again, it's easy enough to Google it.

Marymount university is a struggling university with poor financial health. How you’re connecting that problem to English doing is really strange.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/northern-virginia/as-enrollment-drops-at-some-universities-two-virginia-schools-see-record-growth/3981471/%3famp=1

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-07-19/dc-area-college-drains-one-third-of-endowment-in-bid-to-lure-students" target="_new" rel="nofollow"> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-07-19/dc-area-college-drains-one-third-of-endowment-in-bid-to-lure-students. Typically endowment withdraw is 4-5%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the WSJ on 8/26:

The job market for entry-level workers is in a continued slump. The unemployment rate for new college graduates was 4.8% in June, according to the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, compared with 4% for all workers.

While AI is part of the reason for the doldrums, there is a bright spot when it comes to workers with actual experience in machine learning. They’re in their early 20s, they have AI know-how, and a bunch of them are making $1 million a year.

“There is a significant salary difference between a machine-learning engineer job and a software-engineer job,” says Anil K. Gupta, a professor at the University of Maryland’s Robert H. Smith School of Business and co-lead of its AI job tracker.

Databricks, the data-analytics software company whose value has skyrocketed during the AI boom, plans to triple the number of people it hires right out of school this year, in part because of their familiarity with AI.

Many jobs for machine-learning engineers that require zero to a year of experience pay upward of $200,000 a year at companies like Roblox, according to Levels.fyi. The compensation-data provider has seen 42 user-submitted offers of over $1 million from AI companies. Of those, nine candidates had less than a decade of corporate workplace experience, though some might have had Ph.D.s.

At Scale AI, which recently underwent a reverse-acquihire deal with Meta Platforms, around 15% of employees are under the age of 25. Right out of school, employees at Scale AI can expect base salaries of around $200,000 a year.

“We’re eager to hire AI-native professionals, and many of those candidates are early in their careers,” says Ashli Shiftan, Scale AI’s head of people.

Lily Ma, after graduating in December with an AI-concentration computer-science major from Carnegie Mellon University, applied for 30 to 40 jobs. She had interviews with about a dozen. “I did notice that having research experience helps a lot,” she says. (She also interned at Tesla.)

The 22-year-old landed at Scale AI but turned down some tempting offers, including from a startup that offered a 1% stake in the company.

So they aren’t paying entry workers $500,000!

You do know there are bonuses, right? Hence, base compensation.

That was not the assertion. Try again. Go find a $500,000 salary position- they’re plentiful in fact! This should be easy for you.

Uh...the assertion is they are making $300k-$500k...not that's it all from base salary. Again, whatever makes you feel good.

Yay another lie!