FCPS appears to be considering adding changing start time to 2026 Rezoning per Board Docs

[Anonymous]

I teach at a late ES in FCPS. If they went with pushing things back, I would leave. I have been at my school forever. But, I live in another county and my commute already sucks at 4:30. I would have no time with my own kid. If they moved our ours earlier, I would be thrilled. The county should focus on making ALL kids get to school between the hours of 8:00-3:45pm. All kids should be done by then. But, FCPS isn’t a problem solving entity. Pretty sure a bunch of teachers could look at the data and make plans that worked.

This! This! This!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thats funny most parents complain about how hard it is to make the team, get a spot in the play, or any leadership role.

+1. I’d hate a mega high school. Make it even harder for kids to be involved.

Kids are involved everywhere.

But if your kid cannot sing, they probably won't get cast in the musical and might need to pick a different activity, join the non audition choir class to improve their skills, or pivot to helping with the costume crew.

The bigger schools give amazing performances, as good as many regional theater groups. They are so good because they have a hundred plus kids auditioning, so they can pick the truly talented students and the best trained kids. Most of the ensemble are talented enough to perform leads or smaller rolls. When the ensemble is that strong, the shows are amazing.

The big schools also offer many smaller performance opportunities throughout the year for less experienced kids or kids that want to get their feet wet with performing, so everyone has a chance to be onstage. But many people are "lead or bust" types, so they or their kids are unwilling to take advantage of these smaller, less prestigious opportunities.

There are so many opportunities to get involved for every kid at the largest high schools. You might not be the lead in the musical, but you can join the improv club or take a choir class.

We love how the competitiveness of the bigger schools produces a superior product, even if it means not every kid gets to be on the team or in the musical.

My kid was one of the kids cut, from both the play and the musical freshman year, and from their team sport. But then, they tried running, which takes any kid that can make time and sticks them on the B meets. And they helped with props... not on stage like in middle school. They saw how insanely talented the kids were who got cast in leads, but also ensemble, and realized how hard they worked. They asked for voice lessons and took a basic dance class. The next year they made ensemble, and earned a small solo singing supporting part junior year. They learned so much about dealing with rejection, being flexible, setting a goal and game plan, contributing in the ways you are needed vs the way you want, and how to actually work hard to be as good as those who are better/more talented/faster. My kid never would have learned those lessons if they were at a less competitive high school where everyone makes the team or musical.

Having that competitive, large school culture transformed my laid back kid into a go getter. Getting cut due to a hundred plus kids trying out, most of whom were much better and more prepared than my kid, was far more beneficial in the long run, if only to learn how to productively deal with rejection and disappointment.

I would much rather have a giant 2500-3000 student school where there is opportunity everywhere even in places you didn't have on your list to begin with, groups of kids who are stronger, faster, smarter or more talented to drive excellence and set standards, and a bit of rejection to learn from along the way, than a school where everyone makes the musical or baseball team.

You learn far more from rejection than you ever do from always getting what you want.

TLDR but this smacks of an insecure adult living through their kids accomplishments, hate to break it to you but the HS breakout superstar school musical has the same chance as the other kids coming out of smaller schools. Both have an almost zero percent chance making a living at it. Same for sports. It’s silly and arguments that suggest mega schools are better runs counter to any studies done which suggest about 1,500 students to be produce optimal outcomes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thats funny most parents complain about how hard it is to make the team, get a spot in the play, or any leadership role.

+1. I’d hate a mega high school. Make it even harder for kids to be involved.

Kids are involved everywhere.

But if your kid cannot sing, they probably won't get cast in the musical and might need to pick a different activity, join the non audition choir class to improve their skills, or pivot to helping with the costume crew.

The bigger schools give amazing performances, as good as many regional theater groups. They are so good because they have a hundred plus kids auditioning, so they can pick the truly talented students and the best trained kids. Most of the ensemble are talented enough to perform leads or smaller rolls. When the ensemble is that strong, the shows are amazing.

The big schools also offer many smaller performance opportunities throughout the year for less experienced kids or kids that want to get their feet wet with performing, so everyone has a chance to be onstage. But many people are "lead or bust" types, so they or their kids are unwilling to take advantage of these smaller, less prestigious opportunities.

There are so many opportunities to get involved for every kid at the largest high schools. You might not be the lead in the musical, but you can join the improv club or take a choir class.

We love how the competitiveness of the bigger schools produces a superior product, even if it means not every kid gets to be on the team or in the musical.

My kid was one of the kids cut, from both the play and the musical freshman year, and from their team sport. But then, they tried running, which takes any kid that can make time and sticks them on the B meets. And they helped with props... not on stage like in middle school. They saw how insanely talented the kids were who got cast in leads, but also ensemble, and realized how hard they worked. They asked for voice lessons and took a basic dance class. The next year they made ensemble, and earned a small solo singing supporting part junior year. They learned so much about dealing with rejection, being flexible, setting a goal and game plan, contributing in the ways you are needed vs the way you want, and how to actually work hard to be as good as those who are better/more talented/faster. My kid never would have learned those lessons if they were at a less competitive high school where everyone makes the team or musical.

Having that competitive, large school culture transformed my laid back kid into a go getter. Getting cut due to a hundred plus kids trying out, most of whom were much better and more prepared than my kid, was far more beneficial in the long run, if only to learn how to productively deal with rejection and disappointment.

I would much rather have a giant 2500-3000 student school where there is opportunity everywhere even in places you didn't have on your list to begin with, groups of kids who are stronger, faster, smarter or more talented to drive excellence and set standards, and a bit of rejection to learn from along the way, than a school where everyone makes the musical or baseball team.

You learn far more from rejection than you ever do from always getting what you want.

TLDR but this smacks of an insecure adult living through their kids accomplishments, hate to break it to you but the HS breakout superstar school musical has the same chance as the other kids coming out of smaller schools. Both have an almost zero percent chance making a living at it. Same for sports. It’s silly and arguments that suggest mega schools are better runs counter to any studies done which suggest about 1,500 students to be produce optimal outcomes.

If appreciating that my kids learned valuable lessons from the disappointment of being cut from teams and musicals, and the truth that I enjoy watching other people's more talented children score goals or bring down the house in a musical is what you define as an "insecure adult living through their kid's accomplishments" then sign me up.

I stand by my statement that kids (including mine) learn more from overcoming disappointments like getting cut from a team or not making the musical, and by having other more skilled or driven kids to push them, than they do by getting everything they want so no one gets their feelings hurt.

And it is definitely much more entertaining watching a high school musical where nearly every kid in the ensemble is talented enough to be a lead at other schools. The ensembles make the show.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you have all gone soft. Get the kids out of bed. It has been done for decades.

Goodness knows all this hand wringing over start times has been stupid and has caused logistical headaches of our own creation.

+1

I’ve had multiple kids go through middle school and they survived high school and got into college with zero trauma from the middle school start time.

+another one

Just wait until these kids go to work.......or have an 8 a.m. class in college._

+1

[Anonymous]

The truth comes out that the whole boundary process was really to change start times. I would suggest instead of using prior survey data ask parents if they still want start time change of boundaries come along with it…I bet you would get a different response.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you have all gone soft. Get the kids out of bed. It has been done for decades.

Goodness knows all this hand wringing over start times has been stupid and has caused logistical headaches of our own creation.

+1

I’ve had multiple kids go through middle school and they survived high school and got into college with zero trauma from the middle school start time.

+another one

Just wait until these kids go to work.......or have an 8 a.m. class in college._

They don't enroll in the 8 AM classes. I loved teaching the 8 AM classes because they were smaller and I had more kids who wanted to learn something in the class. They were great. And I got my teaching out of the way early on so my day could be spent on research and writing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having a child that is new to the middle school schedule, I would like to say that it's been fine. And, it's only 2 years. Dc is already looking forward to getting to sleep in for HS

I am glad your kid think it is fine. Mine thought it was awful and grades suffered. Do we cancel each other out now?

I'm another parent who has been surprised by how well last week went - my kid went from a 9:20 start time to 7:30, a 9:00am bus to a 6:45 one and it's been smooth sailing. The most important contributor has been that my child understands why they need to go to sleep early and has been doing so. Soccer starts this week and with a late practice today, we already have a plan for coming home, having a snack, showering, and going immediately to bed. Happy to have a mature child who understands that sleep is so important, I understand that not all kids get this and a lot of them are night owls and want to stay up late.

[Anonymous]

I teach at a late ES in FCPS. If they went with pushing things back, I would leave. I have been at my school forever. But, I live in another county and my commute already sucks at 4:30. I would have no time with my own kid. If they moved our ours earlier, I would be thrilled. The county should focus on making ALL kids get to school between the hours of 8:00-3:45pm. All kids should be done by then. But, FCPS isn’t a problem solving entity. Pretty sure a bunch of teachers could look at the data and make plans that worked.

Are you willing to give up your pay increase to fund buying all the busses and hiring all the drivers this would require? That is, if we can find the bus drivers. We don't have the buses or staff to handle this, that is part of the reason why we are in this position.

My MS has always been an early riser. We were surprised that his summer wake up time shifted from 7:30 to 8 this year. He is in bed reading by 9, lights out at 9:30, and asleep most nights by 10. That gets him between 7-8 hours of sleep and he seems fine with that. His soccer practice and Scout meetings mean that he knows that he has to get homework done before his evening activity. He has a snack before soccer and dinner when he gets home, we have it ready for him when he gets back from practice. Dinner is before Scout meetings. He can choose to miss the Scout meeting if he is feeling tired but has rarely done that.

He has friends who are night owls and don't appreciate the morning wake up time but they have adjusted. Their grades are good, at least to hear their parents talk, and the kids seem happy when I see them in the evening. I think most of them appreciate being home by 3 and having a good amount of down time before they have anything in the evening.

Would they all prefer a later start time? Yes. Are they suffering with the earlier start time? No. A few will tell you that they are and a small percentage of those kids probably are. Most are fine.

I don't have a kid in ES and I think the idea of pushing ES start time back 30 minutes to get 30 more minutes of sleep for MS kids is crazy. I wouldn't have a problem with an earlier start time for ES, my kid was an early riser so it would have fit him just fine, and we had flexible work times so we could handle the shift and have someone at home. But there are two many ES in FCPS so you would need a 7:30 and 8am start time and I don't think you could then get the busses for the HS and MS kids.

[Anonymous]

I've posted this before.

I was an elementary school teacher. One year we started school at 7 a.m. The kids were fine with that. The school system went back to 8 because it was not good having little kids out in the dark mornings.

Young kids do not need school in the late afternoon.

My preference: 8 to 8:15 start time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you have all gone soft. Get the kids out of bed. It has been done for decades.

Goodness knows all this hand wringing over start times has been stupid and has caused logistical headaches of our own creation.

+1

I’ve had multiple kids go through middle school and they survived high school and got into college with zero trauma from the middle school start time.

+another one

Just wait until these kids go to work.......or have an 8 a.m. class in college._

They don't enroll in the 8 AM classes. I loved teaching the 8 AM classes because they were smaller and I had more kids who wanted to learn something in the class. They were great. And I got my teaching out of the way early on so my day could be spent on research and writing.

I’m a prof too and the opposite can be just as true. The kids in the 8 am are there because they didn’t bother to register for courses when their registration window first opened up, and they got stuck with the section no one else wanted.

Either way I tend to agree with people saying kids are soft now and so are parents. No one seems to understand the concept of sucking it up and dealing with less than ideal circumstances. You all are making life too easy for your kids and trust me they crumble when they get to college. So much anxiety and self-doubt even among the high achievers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you have all gone soft. Get the kids out of bed. It has been done for decades.

Goodness knows all this hand wringing over start times has been stupid and has caused logistical headaches of our own creation.

+1

I’ve had multiple kids go through middle school and they survived high school and got into college with zero trauma from the middle school start time.

+another one

Just wait until these kids go to work.......or have an 8 a.m. class in college._

They don't enroll in the 8 AM classes. I loved teaching the 8 AM classes because they were smaller and I had more kids who wanted to learn something in the class. They were great. And I got my teaching out of the way early on so my day could be spent on research and writing.

I’m a prof too and the opposite can be just as true. The kids in the 8 am are there because they didn’t bother to register for courses when their registration window first opened up, and they got stuck with the section no one else wanted.

Either way I tend to agree with people saying kids are soft now and so are parents. No one seems to understand the concept of sucking it up and dealing with less than ideal circumstances. You all are making life too easy for your kids and trust me they crumble when they get to college. So much anxiety and self-doubt even among the high achievers.

Maybe, because our school superintendent is more concerned about "envisioning the possibilities" than she is teaching the kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I teach at a late ES in FCPS. If they went with pushing things back, I would leave. I have been at my school forever. But, I live in another county and my commute already sucks at 4:30. I would have no time with my own kid. If they moved our ours earlier, I would be thrilled. The county should focus on making ALL kids get to school between the hours of 8:00-3:45pm. All kids should be done by then. But, FCPS isn’t a problem solving entity. Pretty sure a bunch of teachers could look at the data and make plans that worked.

Are you willing to give up your pay increase to fund buying all the busses and hiring all the drivers this would require? That is, if we can find the bus drivers. We don't have the buses or staff to handle this, that is part of the reason why we are in this position.

My MS has always been an early riser. We were surprised that his summer wake up time shifted from 7:30 to 8 this year. He is in bed reading by 9, lights out at 9:30, and asleep most nights by 10. That gets him between 7-8 hours of sleep and he seems fine with that. His soccer practice and Scout meetings mean that he knows that he has to get homework done before his evening activity. He has a snack before soccer and dinner when he gets home, we have it ready for him when he gets back from practice. Dinner is before Scout meetings. He can choose to miss the Scout meeting if he is feeling tired but has rarely done that.

He has friends who are night owls and don't appreciate the morning wake up time but they have adjusted. Their grades are good, at least to hear their parents talk, and the kids seem happy when I see them in the evening. I think most of them appreciate being home by 3 and having a good amount of down time before they have anything in the evening.

Would they all prefer a later start time? Yes. Are they suffering with the earlier start time? No. A few will tell you that they are and a small percentage of those kids probably are. Most are fine.

I don't have a kid in ES and I think the idea of pushing ES start time back 30 minutes to get 30 more minutes of sleep for MS kids is crazy. I wouldn't have a problem with an earlier start time for ES, my kid was an early riser so it would have fit him just fine, and we had flexible work times so we could handle the shift and have someone at home. But there are two many ES in FCPS so you would need a 7:30 and 8am start time and I don't think you could then get the busses for the HS and MS kids.

I agree.

The only option that remotely makes sense is flipping the elementary and middle school schedules.

But then, you will lose all the middle school teachers who want the early schedule.

Why is fcps poking the hornets nest every single day?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I teach at a late ES in FCPS. If they went with pushing things back, I would leave. I have been at my school forever. But, I live in another county and my commute already sucks at 4:30. I would have no time with my own kid. If they moved our ours earlier, I would be thrilled. The county should focus on making ALL kids get to school between the hours of 8:00-3:45pm. All kids should be done by then. But, FCPS isn’t a problem solving entity. Pretty sure a bunch of teachers could look at the data and make plans that worked.

Are you willing to give up your pay increase to fund buying all the busses and hiring all the drivers this would require? That is, if we can find the bus drivers. We don't have the buses or staff to handle this, that is part of the reason why we are in this position.

My MS has always been an early riser. We were surprised that his summer wake up time shifted from 7:30 to 8 this year. He is in bed reading by 9, lights out at 9:30, and asleep most nights by 10. That gets him between 7-8 hours of sleep and he seems fine with that. His soccer practice and Scout meetings mean that he knows that he has to get homework done before his evening activity. He has a snack before soccer and dinner when he gets home, we have it ready for him when he gets back from practice. Dinner is before Scout meetings. He can choose to miss the Scout meeting if he is feeling tired but has rarely done that.

He has friends who are night owls and don't appreciate the morning wake up time but they have adjusted. Their grades are good, at least to hear their parents talk, and the kids seem happy when I see them in the evening. I think most of them appreciate being home by 3 and having a good amount of down time before they have anything in the evening.

Would they all prefer a later start time? Yes. Are they suffering with the earlier start time? No. A few will tell you that they are and a small percentage of those kids probably are. Most are fine.

I don't have a kid in ES and I think the idea of pushing ES start time back 30 minutes to get 30 more minutes of sleep for MS kids is crazy. I wouldn't have a problem with an earlier start time for ES, my kid was an early riser so it would have fit him just fine, and we had flexible work times so we could handle the shift and have someone at home. But there are two many ES in FCPS so you would need a 7:30 and 8am start time and I don't think you could then get the busses for the HS and MS kids.

I agree.

The only option that remotely makes sense is flipping the elementary and middle school schedules.

But then, you will lose all the middle school teachers who want the early schedule.

Why is fcps poking the hornets nest every single day?

The county can't handle the surge in child care needs if they start sending home elementary aged kids at 2:30. Dh leaves the house at 5:30 and is barely home to meet a 4 pm bus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having a child that is new to the middle school schedule, I would like to say that it's been fine. And, it's only 2 years. Dc is already looking forward to getting to sleep in for HS

I am glad your kid think it is fine. Mine thought it was awful and grades suffered. Do we cancel each other out now?

I'm another parent who has been surprised by how well last week went - my kid went from a 9:20 start time to 7:30, a 9:00am bus to a 6:45 one and it's been smooth sailing. The most important contributor has been that my child understands why they need to go to sleep early and has been doing so. Soccer starts this week and with a late practice today, we already have a plan for coming home, having a snack, showering, and going immediately to bed. Happy to have a mature child who understands that sleep is so important, I understand that not all kids get this and a lot of them are night owls and want to stay up late.

It's the first week, he's running on the excitement of the newness of it all. And the effects of cumulative sleep depravation haven't caught up with him yet. Wait until he's walking to the bus stop, every morning, for months on end, in pitch black and the days are shorter. There is a lot of variation in the sleep needs and body clocks of kids in middle school. Lot's of these kids at this age aren't close to full blown puberty, especially boys, others are in the midst of it. Their body clocks are changing, some need more and some need less, some are wired to go to bed earlier and some later. Some on the younger size developmentally still need 12, others need 8-10. A kid who still needs 12 is an outlier and a kid who only needs 8 is an outlier, most are somewhere in the middle and they end up running a sleep deficit fairly quickly. Sleep is crucial to kids, it was odd to me that FCPS acknowledged the changing needs of HS but not middle schoolers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you have all gone soft. Get the kids out of bed. It has been done for decades.

Goodness knows all this hand wringing over start times has been stupid and has caused logistical headaches of our own creation.

+1

I’ve had multiple kids go through middle school and they survived high school and got into college with zero trauma from the middle school start time.

+another one

Just wait until these kids go to work.......or have an 8 a.m. class in college._

+1

A child's body is growing, transitioning mentally and physically, a full grown adult is essentially decaying, and getting closer to dying, which one needs more sleep?