Elementary class sizes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not PP but guessing they meant “top ES” as in one of the sought after clusters/wealthier areas. Our real estate agent definitely oversold on the quality of our zoned ES.

PP here. Thanks for help me clarify. Yes, I mean the top-performing ES in a high-SES area. I think the reason for that many kids stuffed in one room is the low-bar for accelerated math. About half is determined to go this path with only one teacher, and the rest spreading between two classrooms.

My kid told me they added extra stools, but about 1/3 needs to sit on the carpet. Principal has submitted the request for an additional part-time teacher. She is not sure when we'll get one.

What does it say to your kids when you tell them they go to a "top ES" - that most kids don't go to good schools? That your kids are smarter and better than Black and Brown students that because of government actions attend schools with high poverty rates?

Why so sensitive? My kid is proud to be in a top performing ES and acknowledges that we pay as much as we can to purchase a property in a good school district. Albeit this year's class size, my kid's experience with this ES is so far so good. They learn from their peers and from us parents that hard work gets paid off in general. That's called working morale. Now I should feel guilty for being able to afford a property in certain zip code because I study hard and work hard?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not PP but guessing they meant “top ES” as in one of the sought after clusters/wealthier areas. Our real estate agent definitely oversold on the quality of our zoned ES.

PP here. Thanks for help me clarify. Yes, I mean the top-performing ES in a high-SES area. I think the reason for that many kids stuffed in one room is the low-bar for accelerated math. About half is determined to go this path with only one teacher, and the rest spreading between two classrooms.

My kid told me they added extra stools, but about 1/3 needs to sit on the carpet. Principal has submitted the request for an additional part-time teacher. She is not sure when we'll get one.

What does it say to your kids when you tell them they go to a "top ES" - that most kids don't go to good schools? That your kids are smarter and better than Black and Brown students that because of government actions attend schools with high poverty rates?

Why so sensitive? My kid is proud to be in a top performing ES and acknowledges that we pay as much as we can to purchase a property in a good school district. Albeit this year's class size, my kid's experience with this ES is so far so good. They learn from their peers and from us parents that hard work gets paid off in general. That's called working morale. Now I should feel guilty for being able to afford a property in certain zip code because I study hard and work hard?

Do you think Black and Latino parents don't work hard enough and that's why most don't send their kids to a top ES? Because that is the message you are sending your kid when they notice who goes to which schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:33 in 4/5 compacted math.

Does everyone see this as normal? There are umpteen gazillion posts about CES and magnets, but people just shrug their shoulders and accept it as fine if their 4th grader has 33 kids in their class?

Practically speaking, what do you think is going to happen if parents make a big stir about big compacted math/enriched literacy classes? (And 33 isn't even that big, 28 is standard.).

If you believe all schools should have these advanced classes and cohort the kids together, you're going to have times when the classes are on the larger side, because you can't just expect that that number of qualifying kids will conveniently always fall in a typical class size range. The alternative to 1 class of 33 is two classes of 16/17, while the lower-performing kids then end up with much larger classes because you've shifted another teacher (going from, say, 4 classes of 25 to 3 classes of 33, or from 3 classes of 25 to 2 classes of 37.) That is just not a reasonable ask.

I strongly suspect that this kind of thing is a big part of why MCPS dropped the enriched literacy cohorting requirement. It would be lovely to have cohorted classes with normal class sizes at all times, but unfortunately it's just not possible to get everything you want here. If you want kids cohorted into advanced classes, you have to live with the fact that those classes might be big sometimes. If instead you complain to principals and central office that your child's advanced class is too big, they are going to throw up their hands and push to get rid of cohorting altogether because they feel like there is no way to satisfy parents so they might as well just do whatever is easiest for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not PP but guessing they meant “top ES” as in one of the sought after clusters/wealthier areas. Our real estate agent definitely oversold on the quality of our zoned ES.

PP here. Thanks for help me clarify. Yes, I mean the top-performing ES in a high-SES area. I think the reason for that many kids stuffed in one room is the low-bar for accelerated math. About half is determined to go this path with only one teacher, and the rest spreading between two classrooms.

My kid told me they added extra stools, but about 1/3 needs to sit on the carpet. Principal has submitted the request for an additional part-time teacher. She is not sure when we'll get one.

What does it say to your kids when you tell them they go to a "top ES" - that most kids don't go to good schools? That your kids are smarter and better than Black and Brown students that because of government actions attend schools with high poverty rates?

Why so sensitive? My kid is proud to be in a top performing ES and acknowledges that we pay as much as we can to purchase a property in a good school district. Albeit this year's class size, my kid's experience with this ES is so far so good. They learn from their peers and from us parents that hard work gets paid off in general. That's called working morale. Now I should feel guilty for being able to afford a property in certain zip code because I study hard and work hard?

Do you think Black and Latino parents don't work hard enough and that's why most don't send their kids to a top ES? Because that is the message you are sending your kid when they notice who goes to which schools.

Hello, my name is not GOD!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not PP but guessing they meant “top ES” as in one of the sought after clusters/wealthier areas. Our real estate agent definitely oversold on the quality of our zoned ES.

PP here. Thanks for help me clarify. Yes, I mean the top-performing ES in a high-SES area. I think the reason for that many kids stuffed in one room is the low-bar for accelerated math. About half is determined to go this path with only one teacher, and the rest spreading between two classrooms.

My kid told me they added extra stools, but about 1/3 needs to sit on the carpet. Principal has submitted the request for an additional part-time teacher. She is not sure when we'll get one.

What does it say to your kids when you tell them they go to a "top ES" - that most kids don't go to good schools? That your kids are smarter and better than Black and Brown students that because of government actions attend schools with high poverty rates?

Why so sensitive? My kid is proud to be in a top performing ES and acknowledges that we pay as much as we can to purchase a property in a good school district. Albeit this year's class size, my kid's experience with this ES is so far so good. They learn from their peers and from us parents that hard work gets paid off in general. That's called working morale. Now I should feel guilty for being able to afford a property in certain zip code because I study hard and work hard?

Do you think Black and Latino parents don't work hard enough and that's why most don't send their kids to a top ES? Because that is the message you are sending your kid when they notice who goes to which schools.

Hello, my name is not GOD!

You clearly think you are God's gift to humanity. Why can't you just do what normal people do which is to send their kids to school and tell them to work hard? Not that they have super special parents that are better than other parents and their school is better than other schools. Sounds like you are trying to justify overspending on your house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:33 in 4/5 compacted math.

Does everyone see this as normal? There are umpteen gazillion posts about CES and magnets, but people just shrug their shoulders and accept it as fine if their 4th grader has 33 kids in their class?

Practically speaking, what do you think is going to happen if parents make a big stir about big compacted math/enriched literacy classes? (And 33 isn't even that big, 28 is standard.).

If you believe all schools should have these advanced classes and cohort the kids together, you're going to have times when the classes are on the larger side, because you can't just expect that that number of qualifying kids will conveniently always fall in a typical class size range. The alternative to 1 class of 33 is two classes of 16/17, while the lower-performing kids then end up with much larger classes because you've shifted another teacher (going from, say, 4 classes of 25 to 3 classes of 33, or from 3 classes of 25 to 2 classes of 37.) That is just not a reasonable ask.

I strongly suspect that this kind of thing is a big part of why MCPS dropped the enriched literacy cohorting requirement. It would be lovely to have cohorted classes with normal class sizes at all times, but unfortunately it's just not possible to get everything you want here. If you want kids cohorted into advanced classes, you have to live with the fact that those classes might be big sometimes. If instead you complain to principals and central office that your child's advanced class is too big, they are going to throw up their hands and push to get rid of cohorting altogether because they feel like there is no way to satisfy parents so they might as well just do whatever is easiest for them.

It's not just advanced classes that are large. My kid's ES class has 32 kids this year. And no, I don't think people should just sit quietly and do nothing when there's a class of 40 in compact math and their kid is asked to sit on the floor. You can have two classes of 20. MCPS has a billion dollar budget. Cut the fat from the central office, and put more teachers in classroom. It's not hard to find an elementary school math teacher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:33 in 4/5 compacted math.

Does everyone see this as normal? There are umpteen gazillion posts about CES and magnets, but people just shrug their shoulders and accept it as fine if their 4th grader has 33 kids in their class?

Practically speaking, what do you think is going to happen if parents make a big stir about big compacted math/enriched literacy classes? (And 33 isn't even that big, 28 is standard.).

If you believe all schools should have these advanced classes and cohort the kids together, you're going to have times when the classes are on the larger side, because you can't just expect that that number of qualifying kids will conveniently always fall in a typical class size range. The alternative to 1 class of 33 is two classes of 16/17, while the lower-performing kids then end up with much larger classes because you've shifted another teacher (going from, say, 4 classes of 25 to 3 classes of 33, or from 3 classes of 25 to 2 classes of 37.) That is just not a reasonable ask.

I strongly suspect that this kind of thing is a big part of why MCPS dropped the enriched literacy cohorting requirement. It would be lovely to have cohorted classes with normal class sizes at all times, but unfortunately it's just not possible to get everything you want here. If you want kids cohorted into advanced classes, you have to live with the fact that those classes might be big sometimes. If instead you complain to principals and central office that your child's advanced class is too big, they are going to throw up their hands and push to get rid of cohorting altogether because they feel like there is no way to satisfy parents so they might as well just do whatever is easiest for them.

It's not just advanced classes that are large. My kid's ES class has 32 kids this year. And no, I don't think people should just sit quietly and do nothing when there's a class of 40 in compact math and their kid is asked to sit on the floor. You can have two classes of 20. MCPS has a billion dollar budget. Cut the fat from the central office, and put more teachers in classroom. It's not hard to find an elementary school math teacher.

I absolutely support lowering class sizes systemwide (and am willing to deal with the tax increases that are likely needed to actually pay for it-- the idea that there is enough fat to cut in central office to meaningfully move the needle on class sizes in a 160,000-kid school system is magical thinking.) But I also think parents of advanced students (and I am one of them) need to be reasonable and realistic about class sizes if we want to keep cohorted classes (which I do.). Yes, 40 kids in a class is too many, but 33 (just a handful above guidelines) is just the kind of the thing we need to live with. It's not a question of finding one elementary school math teacher. You would have to fund dozens or maybe hundreds across all the elementary schools in the county who have this issue (more if you apply it to other grades as well.) And even still, it would likely mean in many cases (just due to how the numbers play out) that the advanced kids get much smaller class sizes than the behind and grade-level kids, which does not seem fair or appropriate. Insisting on it is the kind of thing that gives parents of advanced kids a bad name, and leads MCPS to the conclusion that there's no good way to make cohorting work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:33 in 4/5 compacted math.

Does everyone see this as normal? There are umpteen gazillion posts about CES and magnets, but people just shrug their shoulders and accept it as fine if their 4th grader has 33 kids in their class?

Practically speaking, what do you think is going to happen if parents make a big stir about big compacted math/enriched literacy classes? (And 33 isn't even that big, 28 is standard.).

If you believe all schools should have these advanced classes and cohort the kids together, you're going to have times when the classes are on the larger side, because you can't just expect that that number of qualifying kids will conveniently always fall in a typical class size range. The alternative to 1 class of 33 is two classes of 16/17, while the lower-performing kids then end up with much larger classes because you've shifted another teacher (going from, say, 4 classes of 25 to 3 classes of 33, or from 3 classes of 25 to 2 classes of 37.) That is just not a reasonable ask.

I strongly suspect that this kind of thing is a big part of why MCPS dropped the enriched literacy cohorting requirement. It would be lovely to have cohorted classes with normal class sizes at all times, but unfortunately it's just not possible to get everything you want here. If you want kids cohorted into advanced classes, you have to live with the fact that those classes might be big sometimes. If instead you complain to principals and central office that your child's advanced class is too big, they are going to throw up their hands and push to get rid of cohorting altogether because they feel like there is no way to satisfy parents so they might as well just do whatever is easiest for them.

It's not just advanced classes that are large. My kid's ES class has 32 kids this year. And no, I don't think people should just sit quietly and do nothing when there's a class of 40 in compact math and their kid is asked to sit on the floor. You can have two classes of 20. MCPS has a billion dollar budget. Cut the fat from the central office, and put more teachers in classroom. It's not hard to find an elementary school math teacher.

I absolutely support lowering class sizes systemwide (and am willing to deal with the tax increases that are likely needed to actually pay for it-- the idea that there is enough fat to cut in central office to meaningfully move the needle on class sizes in a 160,000-kid school system is magical thinking.) But I also think parents of advanced students (and I am one of them) need to be reasonable and realistic about class sizes if we want to keep cohorted classes (which I do.). Yes, 40 kids in a class is too many, but 33 (just a handful above guidelines) is just the kind of the thing we need to live with. It's not a question of finding one elementary school math teacher. You would have to fund dozens or maybe hundreds across all the elementary schools in the county who have this issue (more if you apply it to other grades as well.) And even still, it would likely mean in many cases (just due to how the numbers play out) that the advanced kids get much smaller class sizes than the behind and grade-level kids, which does not seem fair or appropriate. Insisting on it is the kind of thing that gives parents of advanced kids a bad name, and leads MCPS to the conclusion that there's no good way to make cohorting work.

That kids "just need to live with" classes of 33 kids is your opinion, not a fact. And if every class of 40 kids would need to get a second teacher, that would be a good thing, not a bad thing. There are plenty of things that I personally would cut from the 3.6 bn$ annual MCPS budget to prioritize smaller class sizes at the elementary school level. I'm sure others with greater knowledge of the MCPS budget could identify others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:33 in 4/5 compacted math.

Does everyone see this as normal? There are umpteen gazillion posts about CES and magnets, but people just shrug their shoulders and accept it as fine if their 4th grader has 33 kids in their class?

Practically speaking, what do you think is going to happen if parents make a big stir about big compacted math/enriched literacy classes? (And 33 isn't even that big, 28 is standard.).

If you believe all schools should have these advanced classes and cohort the kids together, you're going to have times when the classes are on the larger side, because you can't just expect that that number of qualifying kids will conveniently always fall in a typical class size range. The alternative to 1 class of 33 is two classes of 16/17, while the lower-performing kids then end up with much larger classes because you've shifted another teacher (going from, say, 4 classes of 25 to 3 classes of 33, or from 3 classes of 25 to 2 classes of 37.) That is just not a reasonable ask.

I strongly suspect that this kind of thing is a big part of why MCPS dropped the enriched literacy cohorting requirement. It would be lovely to have cohorted classes with normal class sizes at all times, but unfortunately it's just not possible to get everything you want here. If you want kids cohorted into advanced classes, you have to live with the fact that those classes might be big sometimes. If instead you complain to principals and central office that your child's advanced class is too big, they are going to throw up their hands and push to get rid of cohorting altogether because they feel like there is no way to satisfy parents so they might as well just do whatever is easiest for them.

It's not just advanced classes that are large. My kid's ES class has 32 kids this year. And no, I don't think people should just sit quietly and do nothing when there's a class of 40 in compact math and their kid is asked to sit on the floor. You can have two classes of 20. MCPS has a billion dollar budget. Cut the fat from the central office, and put more teachers in classroom. It's not hard to find an elementary school math teacher.

I absolutely support lowering class sizes systemwide (and am willing to deal with the tax increases that are likely needed to actually pay for it-- the idea that there is enough fat to cut in central office to meaningfully move the needle on class sizes in a 160,000-kid school system is magical thinking.) But I also think parents of advanced students (and I am one of them) need to be reasonable and realistic about class sizes if we want to keep cohorted classes (which I do.). Yes, 40 kids in a class is too many, but 33 (just a handful above guidelines) is just the kind of the thing we need to live with. It's not a question of finding one elementary school math teacher. You would have to fund dozens or maybe hundreds across all the elementary schools in the county who have this issue (more if you apply it to other grades as well.) And even still, it would likely mean in many cases (just due to how the numbers play out) that the advanced kids get much smaller class sizes than the behind and grade-level kids, which does not seem fair or appropriate. Insisting on it is the kind of thing that gives parents of advanced kids a bad name, and leads MCPS to the conclusion that there's no good way to make cohorting work.

That kids "just need to live with" classes of 33 kids is your opinion, not a fact. And if every class of 40 kids would need to get a second teacher, that would be a good thing, not a bad thing. There are plenty of things that I personally would cut from the 3.6 bn$ annual MCPS budget to prioritize smaller class sizes at the elementary school level. I'm sure others with greater knowledge of the MCPS budget could identify others.

You do you, but just be willing to take responsibility for it if we never get cohorted enriched ELA back and compacted math goes away soon too (or is dramatically limited.) If the perception is that the parents of advanced students will only be satisfied if their kids get the perfect class sizes (no matter how much bigger it makes the classes for kids who are behind and who need the smaller ratios even more-- in many cases there will be no way to avoid that if you do cohorting and also strictly enforce the class size limits you want), it basically translates into "these parents will never be satisfied unless everything is perfect for their kids which is impossible so why even try?."

Class sizes should definitely be decreased significantly across the board-. But IMO it is both strategically unwise and morally wrong to be unwilling to tolerate larger-than-guidelines class sizes in advanced classes and instead try to force schools into having two tiny advanced classes with all the other students being in much larger classes as a result.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:33 in 4/5 compacted math.

Does everyone see this as normal? There are umpteen gazillion posts about CES and magnets, but people just shrug their shoulders and accept it as fine if their 4th grader has 33 kids in their class?

Practically speaking, what do you think is going to happen if parents make a big stir about big compacted math/enriched literacy classes? (And 33 isn't even that big, 28 is standard.).

If you believe all schools should have these advanced classes and cohort the kids together, you're going to have times when the classes are on the larger side, because you can't just expect that that number of qualifying kids will conveniently always fall in a typical class size range. The alternative to 1 class of 33 is two classes of 16/17, while the lower-performing kids then end up with much larger classes because you've shifted another teacher (going from, say, 4 classes of 25 to 3 classes of 33, or from 3 classes of 25 to 2 classes of 37.) That is just not a reasonable ask.

I strongly suspect that this kind of thing is a big part of why MCPS dropped the enriched literacy cohorting requirement. It would be lovely to have cohorted classes with normal class sizes at all times, but unfortunately it's just not possible to get everything you want here. If you want kids cohorted into advanced classes, you have to live with the fact that those classes might be big sometimes. If instead you complain to principals and central office that your child's advanced class is too big, they are going to throw up their hands and push to get rid of cohorting altogether because they feel like there is no way to satisfy parents so they might as well just do whatever is easiest for them.

It's not just advanced classes that are large. My kid's ES class has 32 kids this year. And no, I don't think people should just sit quietly and do nothing when there's a class of 40 in compact math and their kid is asked to sit on the floor. You can have two classes of 20. MCPS has a billion dollar budget. Cut the fat from the central office, and put more teachers in classroom. It's not hard to find an elementary school math teacher.

I absolutely support lowering class sizes systemwide (and am willing to deal with the tax increases that are likely needed to actually pay for it-- the idea that there is enough fat to cut in central office to meaningfully move the needle on class sizes in a 160,000-kid school system is magical thinking.) But I also think parents of advanced students (and I am one of them) need to be reasonable and realistic about class sizes if we want to keep cohorted classes (which I do.). Yes, 40 kids in a class is too many, but 33 (just a handful above guidelines) is just the kind of the thing we need to live with. It's not a question of finding one elementary school math teacher. You would have to fund dozens or maybe hundreds across all the elementary schools in the county who have this issue (more if you apply it to other grades as well.) And even still, it would likely mean in many cases (just due to how the numbers play out) that the advanced kids get much smaller class sizes than the behind and grade-level kids, which does not seem fair or appropriate. Insisting on it is the kind of thing that gives parents of advanced kids a bad name, and leads MCPS to the conclusion that there's no good way to make cohorting work.

That kids "just need to live with" classes of 33 kids is your opinion, not a fact. And if every class of 40 kids would need to get a second teacher, that would be a good thing, not a bad thing. There are plenty of things that I personally would cut from the 3.6 bn$ annual MCPS budget to prioritize smaller class sizes at the elementary school level. I'm sure others with greater knowledge of the MCPS budget could identify others.

You do you, but just be willing to take responsibility for it if we never get cohorted enriched ELA back and compacted math goes away soon too (or is dramatically limited.) If the perception is that the parents of advanced students will only be satisfied if their kids get the perfect class sizes (no matter how much bigger it makes the classes for kids who are behind and who need the smaller ratios even more-- in many cases there will be no way to avoid that if you do cohorting and also strictly enforce the class size limits you want), it basically translates into "these parents will never be satisfied unless everything is perfect for their kids which is impossible so why even try?."

Class sizes should definitely be decreased significantly across the board-. But IMO it is both strategically unwise and morally wrong to be unwilling to tolerate larger-than-guidelines class sizes in advanced classes and instead try to force schools into having two tiny advanced classes with all the other students being in much larger classes as a result.

That people should tolerate larger than MCPS guidelines class sizes in any class is your opinion, and I disagree. If you're fine with your kid sitting on the floor to learn because there is insufficient room for desks, that's your parenting view. I will continue to advocate via the BoE and my PTA for improvements to class sizes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:33 in 4/5 compacted math.

Does everyone see this as normal? There are umpteen gazillion posts about CES and magnets, but people just shrug their shoulders and accept it as fine if their 4th grader has 33 kids in their class?

Practically speaking, what do you think is going to happen if parents make a big stir about big compacted math/enriched literacy classes? (And 33 isn't even that big, 28 is standard.).

If you believe all schools should have these advanced classes and cohort the kids together, you're going to have times when the classes are on the larger side, because you can't just expect that that number of qualifying kids will conveniently always fall in a typical class size range. The alternative to 1 class of 33 is two classes of 16/17, while the lower-performing kids then end up with much larger classes because you've shifted another teacher (going from, say, 4 classes of 25 to 3 classes of 33, or from 3 classes of 25 to 2 classes of 37.) That is just not a reasonable ask.

I strongly suspect that this kind of thing is a big part of why MCPS dropped the enriched literacy cohorting requirement. It would be lovely to have cohorted classes with normal class sizes at all times, but unfortunately it's just not possible to get everything you want here. If you want kids cohorted into advanced classes, you have to live with the fact that those classes might be big sometimes. If instead you complain to principals and central office that your child's advanced class is too big, they are going to throw up their hands and push to get rid of cohorting altogether because they feel like there is no way to satisfy parents so they might as well just do whatever is easiest for them.

It's not just advanced classes that are large. My kid's ES class has 32 kids this year. And no, I don't think people should just sit quietly and do nothing when there's a class of 40 in compact math and their kid is asked to sit on the floor. You can have two classes of 20. MCPS has a billion dollar budget. Cut the fat from the central office, and put more teachers in classroom. It's not hard to find an elementary school math teacher.

I absolutely support lowering class sizes systemwide (and am willing to deal with the tax increases that are likely needed to actually pay for it-- the idea that there is enough fat to cut in central office to meaningfully move the needle on class sizes in a 160,000-kid school system is magical thinking.) But I also think parents of advanced students (and I am one of them) need to be reasonable and realistic about class sizes if we want to keep cohorted classes (which I do.). Yes, 40 kids in a class is too many, but 33 (just a handful above guidelines) is just the kind of the thing we need to live with. It's not a question of finding one elementary school math teacher. You would have to fund dozens or maybe hundreds across all the elementary schools in the county who have this issue (more if you apply it to other grades as well.) And even still, it would likely mean in many cases (just due to how the numbers play out) that the advanced kids get much smaller class sizes than the behind and grade-level kids, which does not seem fair or appropriate. Insisting on it is the kind of thing that gives parents of advanced kids a bad name, and leads MCPS to the conclusion that there's no good way to make cohorting work.

That kids "just need to live with" classes of 33 kids is your opinion, not a fact. And if every class of 40 kids would need to get a second teacher, that would be a good thing, not a bad thing. There are plenty of things that I personally would cut from the 3.6 bn$ annual MCPS budget to prioritize smaller class sizes at the elementary school level. I'm sure others with greater knowledge of the MCPS budget could identify others.

You do you, but just be willing to take responsibility for it if we never get cohorted enriched ELA back and compacted math goes away soon too (or is dramatically limited.) If the perception is that the parents of advanced students will only be satisfied if their kids get the perfect class sizes (no matter how much bigger it makes the classes for kids who are behind and who need the smaller ratios even more-- in many cases there will be no way to avoid that if you do cohorting and also strictly enforce the class size limits you want), it basically translates into "these parents will never be satisfied unless everything is perfect for their kids which is impossible so why even try?."

Class sizes should definitely be decreased significantly across the board-. But IMO it is both strategically unwise and morally wrong to be unwilling to tolerate larger-than-guidelines class sizes in advanced classes and instead try to force schools into having two tiny advanced classes with all the other students being in much larger classes as a result.

That people should tolerate larger than MCPS guidelines class sizes in any class is your opinion, and I disagree. If you're fine with your kid sitting on the floor to learn because there is insufficient room for desks, that's your parenting view. I will continue to advocate via the BoE and my PTA for improvements to class sizes.

I will continue to advocate for lower class sizes across the board too (although the real place to do that is County Council if you want change any bigger than dropping class sizes by a kid or two, which is not enough.). But being unwilling to allow schools some room to flex advanced class sizes above guidelines is unrealistic, selfish, and counterproductive if you are someone who cares about keeping and expanding cohorted advanced classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:24 in CES 5th grade - grateful.

Typically they will continue to add students in 5th grade from the waitlist. Ours did until they were back up to the maximum size.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You all make me happy we did private
Max sizes:
K: 9
1-3: 14
3+: 18

Upper school: some classes as large as 20 some as small as 5.

I’m really horrified by MCPS this year. 31 kids in my kid’s ES classroom, my MS kid has an average of 34 kids in each class. I don’t know how this school district spends money on all sorts of stupid stuff yet crams kids into classrooms like sardines. They can barely move around because there are so many desks.

But we got that grade opening day video from Dr T!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have 40 4th graders in one 4/5 math class. Ridiculous right?

And did you complain to the school? That’s way over MCPS guidelines.

Several years ago my child had 40 in 5/6. We complained to the principal and then had a meeting with her boss - the Director. He said 40 was fine and that 28 (the guideline at the time) was just a guideline and did not have to be followed. They said, "such bright students will do fine in a large class!"

He has been promoted since then.

Fun times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have 40 4th graders in one 4/5 math class. Ridiculous right?

And did you complain to the school? That’s way over MCPS guidelines.

Several years ago my child had 40 in 5/6. We complained to the principal and then had a meeting with her boss - the Director. He said 40 was fine and that 28 (the guideline at the time) was just a guideline and did not have to be followed. They said, "such bright students will do fine in a large class!"

He has been promoted since then.

Fun times.

Did you child fall behind in math that year?