Does your Summer Team Charge Extra for All-Star Swimmers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For Divisionals and Divisional relays our team rep directly reaches out to parents to fill volunteer positions. I say yes because my kids swim in those meets.

Yes- we are expected to volunteer if our child is in these meets, even if we’ve met our hours (and most of us have if we’ve been volunteering for A and B meets all along). I don’t mind.

[Anonymous]

We practice up until Wednesday before divisionals. Kids who are swimming divisionals will have 2 days of targeted practice for their stroke. I don’t find that it’s a point of contention at all. My kids have had years where they don’t make divisionals and they aren’t bothered. Coaches are paid a salary not hourly. Their contract goes through All Stars. We will typically have 5-10 All Stars who have another week of practice + go out to dinner, which I’m pretty sure they pay for. They also pay for their special caps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fee for summer swim is so reasonable at our pool that I certainly don't begrudge the kids who get an bathing cap and some extra practices (that are open for anyone to attend). I also see some of it as motivational for younger swimmers to aspire to. The junior coaches put up the yard signs for Divisionals and All Stars and have a lot of fun doing it--it's a sweet tradition.

Are you sure about that?

At my pool the extra practices are most definitely not open for anyone to attend. It’s only for the kids who are invited to divisionals and all stars

Um...yes. I'm totally sure but thanks for checking? I have one kid swimming at Divisionals and one kid that is not. They are both attending practice this week. Different teams can have totally different policies...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fee for summer swim is so reasonable at our pool that I certainly don't begrudge the kids who get an bathing cap and some extra practices (that are open for anyone to attend). I also see some of it as motivational for younger swimmers to aspire to. The junior coaches put up the yard signs for Divisionals and All Stars and have a lot of fun doing it--it's a sweet tradition.

Are you sure about that?

At my pool the extra practices are most definitely not open for anyone to attend. It’s only for the kids who are invited to divisionals and all stars

Um...yes. I'm totally sure but thanks for checking? I have one kid swimming at Divisionals and one kid that is not. They are both attending practice this week. Different teams can have totally different policies...

We charge divisional and all star swimmers per 25m that they swim for practices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fee for summer swim is so reasonable at our pool that I certainly don't begrudge the kids who get an bathing cap and some extra practices (that are open for anyone to attend). I also see some of it as motivational for younger swimmers to aspire to. The junior coaches put up the yard signs for Divisionals and All Stars and have a lot of fun doing it--it's a sweet tradition.

Are you sure about that?

At my pool the extra practices are most definitely not open for anyone to attend. It’s only for the kids who are invited to divisionals and all stars

Um...yes. I'm totally sure but thanks for checking? I have one kid swimming at Divisionals and one kid that is not. They are both attending practice this week. Different teams can have totally different policies...

We charge divisional and all star swimmers per 25m that they swim for practices.

[Anonymous]

Most of our all star swimmers don’t (or rarely) attend summer team practices. Should they get a discount? Not sure our team even offers special practices for swimmers going to all stars. They get a cap and a shirt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most of our all star swimmers don’t (or rarely) attend summer team practices. Should they get a discount? Not sure our team even offers special practices for swimmers going to all stars. They get a cap and a shirt.

Same here. Oddly enough, some of our team reps over the years have considered this disrespectful and an indication of not being a team player.... but they happily took (credit for) the All Star times, A meet wins, division standings, and divisional bumps.

[Anonymous]

Every club sports team (and I’m lumping in dvm summer swim with club teams because kids tend to stick with their teams over many years, and because of how much brain space and energy is devoted by the families) is based on a pyramid.

The top of the pyramid attracts new members with their success. The bottom of the pyramid generates income, volunteering might, and feeds the middle and top with talent. The top gets more resources than the bottom - longer practices, more practices, better quality coaching, swag, more coaching time when qualifying for end of season meets. They will be charged more, but they disproportionately cost the team more than the beginners.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Every club sports team (and I’m lumping in dvm summer swim with club teams because kids tend to stick with their teams over many years, and because of how much brain space and energy is devoted by the families) is based on a pyramid.

The top of the pyramid attracts new members with their success. The bottom of the pyramid generates income, volunteering might, and feeds the middle and top with talent. The top gets more resources than the bottom - longer practices, more practices, better quality coaching, swag, more coaching time when qualifying for end of season meets. They will be charged more, but they disproportionately cost the team more than the beginners.

Except this generalization doesn't hold. At the 13 and Over level, many of your top swimmers are also club swimmers; im sure there are exceptions across all of NVSL, but what I'm saying holds up well. These 13O swimmers are more often than not going to their club over rec practices and therefore are not taking up lane or coaching space. The teens I've observed over the years who are club swimmers, however, are involved with the team in other ways like being mini volunteers and or coaches, helping with spirit rallies, chalking the night before the meets. The parents of those teens tend (not always) to have parents who are involved in other ways like officials.

By your logic, the team owes this group a kids a refund.

[Anonymous]

Our team has divisional swimmers receiving 3 extra practices. No special dinners. I'm okay with this. A week extra would be annoying. I haven't heard anything about all stars

[Anonymous]

I have had kids at all levels of summer swim now, from mini to 15 - 18 year olds, and from B meet only to IAS.

For my team, the perception that the IAS type kids are somehow getting "more", wouldn't represent reality. The kids who the social activities are designed around, and who get by far the most coach attention, are the younger newer swimmers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every club sports team (and I’m lumping in dvm summer swim with club teams because kids tend to stick with their teams over many years, and because of how much brain space and energy is devoted by the families) is based on a pyramid.

The top of the pyramid attracts new members with their success. The bottom of the pyramid generates income, volunteering might, and feeds the middle and top with talent. The top gets more resources than the bottom - longer practices, more practices, better quality coaching, swag, more coaching time when qualifying for end of season meets. They will be charged more, but they disproportionately cost the team more than the beginners.

Except this generalization doesn't hold. At the 13 and Over level, many of your top swimmers are also club swimmers; im sure there are exceptions across all of NVSL, but what I'm saying holds up well. These 13O swimmers are more often than not going to their club over rec practices and therefore are not taking up lane or coaching space. The teens I've observed over the years who are club swimmers, however, are involved with the team in other ways like being mini volunteers and or coaches, helping with spirit rallies, chalking the night before the meets. The parents of those teens tend (not always) to have parents who are involved in other ways like officials.

By your logic, the team owes this group a kids a refund.

I don’t think anyone owes anyone a refund. I think that the system is working as it should. The club swimmers get the glory of winning for their summer team while not derailing their rigorous club training. The B swimmers get to be inspired by faster teammates and be a part of the team victories. It’s similar to the way many (not all) high school swim teams are set up - club kids don’t have to go to high school practice, and they usually dominate the non club kids, who do have to go to high school practice. The club kids are the ones who qualify for regionals and state, and get extra gear, extra coaching time, and extra practices.

The club swimmers who don’t attend summer swim practice are opting out of practices which already exist for everyone else. The lanes are more empty when they aren’t there, but those practices are happening whether or not they show up. The coaches are getting paid whether or not the club swimmers show up.

The all star swimmers are using resources to go to special meets or dinners or whatever that only they can go to. The coaches are being paid through the end of all stars and coach only those swimmers in that period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every club sports team (and I’m lumping in dvm summer swim with club teams because kids tend to stick with their teams over many years, and because of how much brain space and energy is devoted by the families) is based on a pyramid.

The top of the pyramid attracts new members with their success. The bottom of the pyramid generates income, volunteering might, and feeds the middle and top with talent. The top gets more resources than the bottom - longer practices, more practices, better quality coaching, swag, more coaching time when qualifying for end of season meets. They will be charged more, but they disproportionately cost the team more than the beginners.

Except this generalization doesn't hold. At the 13 and Over level, many of your top swimmers are also club swimmers; im sure there are exceptions across all of NVSL, but what I'm saying holds up well. These 13O swimmers are more often than not going to their club over rec practices and therefore are not taking up lane or coaching space. The teens I've observed over the years who are club swimmers, however, are involved with the team in other ways like being mini volunteers and or coaches, helping with spirit rallies, chalking the night before the meets. The parents of those teens tend (not always) to have parents who are involved in other ways like officials.

By your logic, the team owes this group a kids a refund.

I don’t think anyone owes anyone a refund. I think that the system is working as it should. The club swimmers get the glory of winning for their summer team while not derailing their rigorous club training. The B swimmers get to be inspired by faster teammates and be a part of the team victories. It’s similar to the way many (not all) high school swim teams are set up - club kids don’t have to go to high school practice, and they usually dominate the non club kids, who do have to go to high school practice. The club kids are the ones who qualify for regionals and state, and get extra gear, extra coaching time, and extra practices.

The club swimmers who don’t attend summer swim practice are opting out of practices which already exist for everyone else. The lanes are more empty when they aren’t there, but those practices are happening whether or not they show up. The coaches are getting paid whether or not the club swimmers show up.

The all star swimmers are using resources to go to special meets or dinners or whatever that only they can go to. The coaches are being paid through the end of all stars and coach only those swimmers in that period.

Just out of curiosity, have folks ever seen a conflict between what summer teach coaches are teaching and what club kids are learning? I've heard stories about summer coaches trying to make adjustments to their club kids' strokes, flip turns, etc... and the club coaches basically telling their swimmers to ignore the summer coach.

[Anonymous]

CSL team. The all-star swimmers get a fun star gifted by the team. That’s it. The families pay for all-star spirit wear like a shirt or caps, and parents pay for an optional breakfast at an inexpensive restaurant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every club sports team (and I’m lumping in dvm summer swim with club teams because kids tend to stick with their teams over many years, and because of how much brain space and energy is devoted by the families) is based on a pyramid.

The top of the pyramid attracts new members with their success. The bottom of the pyramid generates income, volunteering might, and feeds the middle and top with talent. The top gets more resources than the bottom - longer practices, more practices, better quality coaching, swag, more coaching time when qualifying for end of season meets. They will be charged more, but they disproportionately cost the team more than the beginners.

Except this generalization doesn't hold. At the 13 and Over level, many of your top swimmers are also club swimmers; im sure there are exceptions across all of NVSL, but what I'm saying holds up well. These 13O swimmers are more often than not going to their club over rec practices and therefore are not taking up lane or coaching space. The teens I've observed over the years who are club swimmers, however, are involved with the team in other ways like being mini volunteers and or coaches, helping with spirit rallies, chalking the night before the meets. The parents of those teens tend (not always) to have parents who are involved in other ways like officials.

By your logic, the team owes this group a kids a refund.

I don’t think anyone owes anyone a refund. I think that the system is working as it should. The club swimmers get the glory of winning for their summer team while not derailing their rigorous club training. The B swimmers get to be inspired by faster teammates and be a part of the team victories. It’s similar to the way many (not all) high school swim teams are set up - club kids don’t have to go to high school practice, and they usually dominate the non club kids, who do have to go to high school practice. The club kids are the ones who qualify for regionals and state, and get extra gear, extra coaching time, and extra practices.

The club swimmers who don’t attend summer swim practice are opting out of practices which already exist for everyone else. The lanes are more empty when they aren’t there, but those practices are happening whether or not they show up. The coaches are getting paid whether or not the club swimmers show up.

The all star swimmers are using resources to go to special meets or dinners or whatever that only they can go to. The coaches are being paid through the end of all stars and coach only those swimmers in that period.

Just out of curiosity, have folks ever seen a conflict between what summer teach coaches are teaching and what club kids are learning? I've heard stories about summer coaches trying to make adjustments to their club kids' strokes, flip turns, etc... and the club coaches basically telling their swimmers to ignore the summer coach.

My kid's club coach doesn't say ignore the summer coach right away with everything, but does say ask me first before you do anything. This year is better with the summer coach knowing what they're talking about, but past coaches in the summer have been teenagers with summer only experience giving bad advice.