MCPS family considering DCPS

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP, I would just visit the schools you're interested in and ask to be connected with parents from those PTOs.

Fwiw, DCPS teachers are overall better paid and tend to be better credentialed than those MCPS. In ES, class sizes are smaller and often have classroom aides and more specials as well. Many DCPS ES across the city are great. And there's a ton of wealthy families attending DCPS schools, esp. in Wards 2, 3, and 4. OP might not decide it's worth it for whatever trade-offs between individual schools, but the blanket generalizations about the entire district on this thread are silly.

This is largely untrue. I was a former DCPS teacher who made the move to MCPS. I had to catch up on credentials and teacher workshop training to keep up with my MCPS counterparts. Many of MCPS are certified in multiple areas or have a National Teacher accreditation which is difficult to obtain. It takes 2-3 years to become nationally board certified.

Why are there useless things like “National Teacher” accreditation?

I assume most people would prefer a teacher with a masters or PhD in the subject matter vs these accreditations.

You sound pretty uneducated. National Board Certification includes having independent reviewers who are highly educated and skilled on best practices, this committee review teachers through in person visits, teachers must also submit a portfolio and videos of their teaching and data of their students progress. Further, you cannot become nationally accredited until you have had at least 3 years teaching experience.

Refrain from speaking on matters until you have all the information. 🙄

And yet we would all rather prefer say a Calc BC teacher with a masters or PhD in Math vs someone with National Board Certification…though ideally both.

Agreed. I have always assumed the national accreditations are BS money making schemes.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:DCPS is literal garbage.

Can you give more specifics why you think DCPS high schools are garbage? DCPS has at least 3-4 strong high schools. I’ve had two kids graduate from Jackson-Reed. Both went on to Yale and are doing very well there. They were well prepared by their HS. That being said, I wouldn’t move if I was OP. Public schools in general these days have a lot of issues. MCPS has unfortunately declined in quality and the gap between MCPS and upper NW schools has closed considerably

This family sounds in bounds for BCC which is pretty darn similar to JR on many levels.

Fairly happy DCPS parent here, but I would not move "for the schools" if I was in-bound for BCC. If you like the house or the neighborhood better, great. It takes more planning and work and some luck to find a good pathway in DC though it's absolutely possible.

But what you have in MoCo is at least as good as what you'll get in upper NW, and arguably a lot better for middle and high.

BCC is not that much better than JR.

Holy crap. Yes it is. There are years when there are actual classes without teachers at JR. My one kid didn't learn any physics in high school because although he "took" AP Physics, he literally didn't have a teacher. Got an A for doing NOTHING. The same thing happened for my 11th grade in AP Environmental Science. This totally insanity does not happen at BCC.

Kids at BCC roll in late just like JR, no consequences, don’t turn in their work. They switch teachers halfway through the year for no reason at BCC because these are year long courses. So some teachers just do nothing in December because their colleagues are so far behind in thr curriculum. That is total insanity to me.

My kid is at BCC. Teachers are assigned per semester, which is why sometimes the teacher changes from semester A to semester B. My kid's English, math and computer science teachers did not switch out, so she's had those three for the entire year. She's had two teachers for each of her other subjects. Every teacher ensures that they teach their portion of the curriculum, so this does not affect learning. This happens in every MCPS high school. My oldest attended Walter Johnson, further north in Bethesda, and had the same experience. As to your comment about teens tardiness... they're teens and high schools start too early for their temporarily changed circadian rhythm. They will ALWAYS want to sleep in.

Furthermore, DCPS high schools in general have a reduced number of advanced courses compared to MCPS and a less accelerated general track. In MCPS, the normal track for students is to take AP US Gov in 9th, AP US History in 10th, AP World History in 11th, and then go on to take others. At JR, the recommended track leads to AP US History in 11th and AP US Gov in 12th. At BCC and some other high schools, students can take post-AP math classes in their own building. At JR, there is nothing after AP Calculus and AP Stats, except possibly one year of dual enrollment. I could go on. But it's an accepted fact, over decades and decades of third party testing and individual comparisons, that DCPS is not a good public school system overall. I do not disagree that some DCPS elementaries are really nice! I have friends who are really happy with some of them, and some charters. But then the problem is moving kids away from their cohort in middle school to go private or move to MCPS or FCPS. Many NW DC families do this.

For OP's situation specifically, she already lives in one of the most luxurious corners of the entire DC region. It's a little weird to move her children twice! One of my kids attended Chevy Chase ES and we loved it. It's one of the best elementary schools in MCPS, houses the elementary magnet (CES) for 4th and 5th grade, which my kid attended, and has the wealthiest parent-run educational foundation of the entire MCPS system. The school property itself is VERY NICE. I cannot comment on Rosemary Hills.

To be entirely frank, I think it's just a case of OP not having enough perspective and knowledge on the MCPS/DCPS situation, and getting overly anxious for nothing. Her kids will thrive, unless they have undiagnosed special needs. One of my kids had special needs, and an IEP throughout nearly all his K-12 MCPS career. He received great services and accommodations, but we did have to do our due diligence and hover to make sure they were put in place and enforced.
If OP is not happy with the best of what MCPS has to offer, she will not be happy with the best of DCPS, and should look into private schools.

Private schools: only the top privates in the region will rival the instruction of MCPS, with one glaring exception: English. English is the Achille's heel of MCPS, and other public schools. The classes are too large for reading and writing to be taught to what I would consider to be a good level. I supplemented, like many educated parents do. But no privates can rival MCPS' focus on math and science, by a long way!!!

So OP, there is no perfect school situation. Pick what you think is the best fit for your kids and supplement the rest. We chose to stay in MCPS, because supplementing a private education means throwing a lot more money out of the window. That way I have enough money to pay for any private university and grad school. Oldest is currently in an 85K a year university.

JR has 29 AP options to 23 at BCC.

It’s not advanced or not advanced as to when you can take various AP history classes. It just is a different philosophy on it.

Sophomores are free to enroll in any number of other AP classes such as Computer Science or Psych or Economics et al.

BCC average SAT scores are higher but ACT identical.

It’s neither here or there on math past AP calc other than I guarantee multivariable or linear algebra or differential or basically any college class at Georgetown or GW will be more rigorous than BCC.

Nobody is saying it’s bad…but in fact JR and BCC are the most similar high schools in the DMV.

You are forgetting two important things:

1. BCC has the International Baccalaureate programme, which doubles the number of advanced classes kids can take. They have slightly fewer APs than Walter Johnson or Walt Whitman high schools (or other so-called W schools in MCPS), because they offer the full IB courses.
2. It does matter what the "normal" track is, because it creates a cohort of studious kids in the school. If most kids are taking AP US Gov in 9th, and stay on that track (and most do), that's a wholly different level of writing, reading and discussion than regular history. IB classes are more writing and research-heavy than APs, and kids need to be really good writers to do well.

So all in all, you are wrong. BCC has much higher-level studies than JR, and a cohort of kids who are spread out in APs and IBs are doing more advanced work, on average, than the JR population.

But this is moot for OP, since she wants to move her kids back at some point. OP needs to think more about this, because leaving MCPS only to come back to it might potentially create hassle if she's looking for continuity and wants her kids to be placed on advanced tracks. For math, this starts in 3rd, when kids are tested to go into compacted math in 4th (or the CES, the elementary magnet). OP can send her kids elsewhere and make sure they end up back at BCC on accelerated tracks, but it's going to take a lot more double-checking at critical points. And given OP's current lack of understanding of the system, it might be easier for her to just stick to MCPS.

Nobody gives a shit about taking history classes earlier…nobody.

So, you take other AP classes if you want.

IB is just duplicating APs in most instances…so who cares? Nobody will take AP Environmental Science and IB Environmental Science as just one example?

As much as you want to keep spewing nonsense…sorry, but the two schools are very similar.

Let’s face it…if OP is moving back they would be much better served in the Whitman and Churchill and those schools than BCC.

It’s hilarious that you spend all this effort arguing that JR and BCC are basically equivalent and then finish by suggesting there is a meaningful difference between BCC and Whitman or Churchill.

If that was the case, I would imagine PP would argue that JR is equivalent to BCC, Whitman and Churchill.

Since they only compared it to BCC...then clearly there is a meaningful difference between BCC/JR and other schools (in their view).

They aren't comparing BCC to Einstein or Blair or other MoCo high schools either.

How would the teachers on this thread compare BCC/JR to Blair or Einstein then? Assuming regular AP and IB classes, not magnet program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCPS is literal garbage.

Can you give more specifics why you think DCPS high schools are garbage? DCPS has at least 3-4 strong high schools. I’ve had two kids graduate from Jackson-Reed. Both went on to Yale and are doing very well there. They were well prepared by their HS. That being said, I wouldn’t move if I was OP. Public schools in general these days have a lot of issues. MCPS has unfortunately declined in quality and the gap between MCPS and upper NW schools has closed considerably

This family sounds in bounds for BCC which is pretty darn similar to JR on many levels.

Fairly happy DCPS parent here, but I would not move "for the schools" if I was in-bound for BCC. If you like the house or the neighborhood better, great. It takes more planning and work and some luck to find a good pathway in DC though it's absolutely possible.

But what you have in MoCo is at least as good as what you'll get in upper NW, and arguably a lot better for middle and high.

BCC is not that much better than JR.

Holy crap. Yes it is. There are years when there are actual classes without teachers at JR. My one kid didn't learn any physics in high school because although he "took" AP Physics, he literally didn't have a teacher. Got an A for doing NOTHING. The same thing happened for my 11th grade in AP Environmental Science. This totally insanity does not happen at BCC.

Kids at BCC roll in late just like JR, no consequences, don’t turn in their work. They switch teachers halfway through the year for no reason at BCC because these are year long courses. So some teachers just do nothing in December because their colleagues are so far behind in thr curriculum. That is total insanity to me.

My kid is at BCC. Teachers are assigned per semester, which is why sometimes the teacher changes from semester A to semester B. My kid's English, math and computer science teachers did not switch out, so she's had those three for the entire year. She's had two teachers for each of her other subjects. Every teacher ensures that they teach their portion of the curriculum, so this does not affect learning. This happens in every MCPS high school. My oldest attended Walter Johnson, further north in Bethesda, and had the same experience. As to your comment about teens tardiness... they're teens and high schools start too early for their temporarily changed circadian rhythm. They will ALWAYS want to sleep in.

Furthermore, DCPS high schools in general have a reduced number of advanced courses compared to MCPS and a less accelerated general track. In MCPS, the normal track for students is to take AP US Gov in 9th, AP US History in 10th, AP World History in 11th, and then go on to take others. At JR, the recommended track leads to AP US History in 11th and AP US Gov in 12th. At BCC and some other high schools, students can take post-AP math classes in their own building. At JR, there is nothing after AP Calculus and AP Stats, except possibly one year of dual enrollment. I could go on. But it's an accepted fact, over decades and decades of third party testing and individual comparisons, that DCPS is not a good public school system overall. I do not disagree that some DCPS elementaries are really nice! I have friends who are really happy with some of them, and some charters. But then the problem is moving kids away from their cohort in middle school to go private or move to MCPS or FCPS. Many NW DC families do this.

For OP's situation specifically, she already lives in one of the most luxurious corners of the entire DC region. It's a little weird to move her children twice! One of my kids attended Chevy Chase ES and we loved it. It's one of the best elementary schools in MCPS, houses the elementary magnet (CES) for 4th and 5th grade, which my kid attended, and has the wealthiest parent-run educational foundation of the entire MCPS system. The school property itself is VERY NICE. I cannot comment on Rosemary Hills.

To be entirely frank, I think it's just a case of OP not having enough perspective and knowledge on the MCPS/DCPS situation, and getting overly anxious for nothing. Her kids will thrive, unless they have undiagnosed special needs. One of my kids had special needs, and an IEP throughout nearly all his K-12 MCPS career. He received great services and accommodations, but we did have to do our due diligence and hover to make sure they were put in place and enforced.
If OP is not happy with the best of what MCPS has to offer, she will not be happy with the best of DCPS, and should look into private schools.

Private schools: only the top privates in the region will rival the instruction of MCPS, with one glaring exception: English. English is the Achille's heel of MCPS, and other public schools. The classes are too large for reading and writing to be taught to what I would consider to be a good level. I supplemented, like many educated parents do. But no privates can rival MCPS' focus on math and science, by a long way!!!

So OP, there is no perfect school situation. Pick what you think is the best fit for your kids and supplement the rest. We chose to stay in MCPS, because supplementing a private education means throwing a lot more money out of the window. That way I have enough money to pay for any private university and grad school. Oldest is currently in an 85K a year university.

JR has 29 AP options to 23 at BCC.

It’s not advanced or not advanced as to when you can take various AP history classes. It just is a different philosophy on it.

Sophomores are free to enroll in any number of other AP classes such as Computer Science or Psych or Economics et al.

BCC average SAT scores are higher but ACT identical.

It’s neither here or there on math past AP calc other than I guarantee multivariable or linear algebra or differential or basically any college class at Georgetown or GW will be more rigorous than BCC.

Nobody is saying it’s bad…but in fact JR and BCC are the most similar high schools in the DMV.

You are forgetting two important things:

1. BCC has the International Baccalaureate programme, which doubles the number of advanced classes kids can take. They have slightly fewer APs than Walter Johnson or Walt Whitman high schools (or other so-called W schools in MCPS), because they offer the full IB courses.
2. It does matter what the "normal" track is, because it creates a cohort of studious kids in the school. If most kids are taking AP US Gov in 9th, and stay on that track (and most do), that's a wholly different level of writing, reading and discussion than regular history. IB classes are more writing and research-heavy than APs, and kids need to be really good writers to do well.

So all in all, you are wrong. BCC has much higher-level studies than JR, and a cohort of kids who are spread out in APs and IBs are doing more advanced work, on average, than the JR population.

But this is moot for OP, since she wants to move her kids back at some point. OP needs to think more about this, because leaving MCPS only to come back to it might potentially create hassle if she's looking for continuity and wants her kids to be placed on advanced tracks. For math, this starts in 3rd, when kids are tested to go into compacted math in 4th (or the CES, the elementary magnet). OP can send her kids elsewhere and make sure they end up back at BCC on accelerated tracks, but it's going to take a lot more double-checking at critical points. And given OP's current lack of understanding of the system, it might be easier for her to just stick to MCPS.

Nobody gives a shit about taking history classes earlier…nobody.

So, you take other AP classes if you want.

IB is just duplicating APs in most instances…so who cares? Nobody will take AP Environmental Science and IB Environmental Science as just one example?

As much as you want to keep spewing nonsense…sorry, but the two schools are very similar.

Let’s face it…if OP is moving back they would be much better served in the Whitman and Churchill and those schools than BCC.

It’s hilarious that you spend all this effort arguing that JR and BCC are basically equivalent and then finish by suggesting there is a meaningful difference between BCC and Whitman or Churchill.

Because there is…not rocket science. Whitman and Churchill have higher test scores, AP pass rates, far different demographics, etc.

BCC I guess is similar to Walter Johnson in that for two years in a row there were huge fights after the football game.

Yes— if you only want your kid to go to school with the kids of law firm partners send them to Whitman. But to suggest that a given kid will get a better education at Whitman is silly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I would just visit the schools you're interested in and ask to be connected with parents from those PTOs.

Fwiw, DCPS teachers are overall better paid and tend to be better credentialed than those MCPS. In ES, class sizes are smaller and often have classroom aides and more specials as well. Many DCPS ES across the city are great. And there's a ton of wealthy families attending DCPS schools, esp. in Wards 2, 3, and 4. OP might not decide it's worth it for whatever trade-offs between individual schools, but the blanket generalizations about the entire district on this thread are silly.

This is largely untrue. I was a former DCPS teacher who made the move to MCPS. I had to catch up on credentials and teacher workshop training to keep up with my MCPS counterparts. Many of MCPS are certified in multiple areas or have a National Teacher accreditation which is difficult to obtain. It takes 2-3 years to become nationally board certified.

Why are there useless things like “National Teacher” accreditation?

I assume most people would prefer a teacher with a masters or PhD in the subject matter vs these accreditations.

You sound pretty uneducated. National Board Certification includes having independent reviewers who are highly educated and skilled on best practices, this committee review teachers through in person visits, teachers must also submit a portfolio and videos of their teaching and data of their students progress. Further, you cannot become nationally accredited until you have had at least 3 years teaching experience.

Refrain from speaking on matters until you have all the information. 🙄

And yet we would all rather prefer say a Calc BC teacher with a masters or PhD in Math vs someone with National Board Certification…though ideally both.

Agreed. I have always assumed the national accreditations are BS money making schemes.

A masters or PhD means zero if you can’t actually teach. My middle school math teacher had a PhD in math and he was a total dud. National Board Certification ensures good teaching. But since there is a teacher shortage no clue what we will get.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I would just visit the schools you're interested in and ask to be connected with parents from those PTOs.

Fwiw, DCPS teachers are overall better paid and tend to be better credentialed than those MCPS. In ES, class sizes are smaller and often have classroom aides and more specials as well. Many DCPS ES across the city are great. And there's a ton of wealthy families attending DCPS schools, esp. in Wards 2, 3, and 4. OP might not decide it's worth it for whatever trade-offs between individual schools, but the blanket generalizations about the entire district on this thread are silly.

This is largely untrue. I was a former DCPS teacher who made the move to MCPS. I had to catch up on credentials and teacher workshop training to keep up with my MCPS counterparts. Many of MCPS are certified in multiple areas or have a National Teacher accreditation which is difficult to obtain. It takes 2-3 years to become nationally board certified.

Why are there useless things like “National Teacher” accreditation?

I assume most people would prefer a teacher with a masters or PhD in the subject matter vs these accreditations.

You sound pretty uneducated. National Board Certification includes having independent reviewers who are highly educated and skilled on best practices, this committee review teachers through in person visits, teachers must also submit a portfolio and videos of their teaching and data of their students progress. Further, you cannot become nationally accredited until you have had at least 3 years teaching experience.

Refrain from speaking on matters until you have all the information. 🙄

And yet we would all rather prefer say a Calc BC teacher with a masters or PhD in Math vs someone with National Board Certification…though ideally both.

Eh I don’t know that I would agree with that. Lots of teachers with PhD are not strong teachers. Just because you know the content well doesn’t mean you can explain it. I know several teachers with PhDs or Masters in their content area. They have a hard time relating the material to kids.

[Anonymous]

Mann is spectacular. It is small and the PTA pays for a second teacher, class sizes are small and the school was built on the legacy of an amazing principal: Elizabeth Whisnant.
You can then do private from Middle School onward.