Brown vs. W&M (Monroe) for humanities?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:W&M just because your DC could probably get a better gpa (much better?) at W&M which is basically all that matters for law school other than LSAT and work experience. That said, if Yale Law is her dream, go to Brown because they give a bump for Ivy+ schools.

Brown has tons of grade inflation!

And, you clearly have no experience there. Sure, kids can do S /NC to push them out of the box, and retake to replace an F (which I think is about good thing frankly), but courses are rigorous and not easy A. My kids from top DC are magnet are working hard. Others getting Bs and Cs

This is well documented.

https://www.browndailyherald.com/article/2022/04/brown-grade-inflation-continues-to-soar-data-shows
https://www.vox.com/xpress/2014/9/10/6132411/chart-grade-inflation-in-the-ivy-league-over-time
https://ripplematch.com/insights/the-top-15-universities-with-the-highest-average-gpas-4f4b544d

Didn’t read all articles, but not completely accurate. It is not true that you can’t earn a D or an F like one says. You absolutely can, the difference is that neither is passing and won’t show on external transcript so you can retake. The no +/- may help, but I think it tends to balance out in the end. My kid has lost an A by 1-2 points twice and it’s rough taking that to a 3.0. The S/NC some will take one class this way to explore with fear. Students headed to med, law, grad
don’t usually so it. My premed won’t do any. The classes are very rigorous, with open curriculum the student chose it so all are invested. Not disputing gpa’s are high, but some of the nitty gritty tends to get misrepresented.

There was a drive in recent years to lower the GPAs at Brown. Incoming classes feel it. It is very rigorous. Lots and lots of hours in the library. This year’s class saw far more Bs and below.

Agree, my stem kid is feeling it. They report their humanities friends are also overwhelmed. I’m sure the other person posting knows more than current students though. 🙄

I’ll be honest, my kid went to a top ranked high school top of the class, perfect score on SAT no prep. I was not expecting this, and they would have lightened load accordingly if they could go back in time.

I have a humanities kid. Very rigorous. In library all the time. 1 point away from an A in two spring courses (worse than if it want close). Also tough private, uw4, perfect ACT- no prep. Brown Herald had an article about grade deflation, the recent pulling away from handing out as many As.

The last I saw was about grade INFLATION and too many As.

https://www.browndailyherald.com/article/2024/12/is-brown-giving-out-too-many-as-professors-discuss-grading-practices-grade-inflation

Brown is open curriculum. You can avoid subjects you think may be difficult for you or take pass/fail.

This only comes into play with electives, obviously, to encourage students to explore areas of study that are new to them. But every major/track has its own curriculum and required courses, and kids who get into Brown aren’t so dumb that they think future employers/grad school admissions committees won’t care that they took Econ or Orgo or whatever P/F

[Anonymous]

The real story from an actual student is that they select for kids that are very curious and interdisciplinary. They have a lot of supplementals and they all point to this. They aren’t admitting ones that are going to abuse the system. Most are pursuing additional education and don’t use at all. Those that do look like this…I’m a premed and have 3 hard stems so I’m going to take this philosophy class as P/F for some breathing room because I do research, volunteer, and have to do loads of clinical hours. That’s the reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:W&M just because your DC could probably get a better gpa (much better?) at W&M which is basically all that matters for law school other than LSAT and work experience. That said, if Yale Law is her dream, go to Brown because they give a bump for Ivy+ schools.

Brown has tons of grade inflation!

And, you clearly have no experience there. Sure, kids can do S /NC to push them out of the box, and retake to replace an F (which I think is about good thing frankly), but courses are rigorous and not easy A. My kids from top DC are magnet are working hard. Others getting Bs and Cs

This is well documented.

https://www.browndailyherald.com/article/2022/04/brown-grade-inflation-continues-to-soar-data-shows
https://www.vox.com/xpress/2014/9/10/6132411/chart-grade-inflation-in-the-ivy-league-over-time
https://ripplematch.com/insights/the-top-15-universities-with-the-highest-average-gpas-4f4b544d

Didn’t read all articles, but not completely accurate. It is not true that you can’t earn a D or an F like one says. You absolutely can, the difference is that neither is passing and won’t show on external transcript so you can retake. The no +/- may help, but I think it tends to balance out in the end. My kid has lost an A by 1-2 points twice and it’s rough taking that to a 3.0. The S/NC some will take one class this way to explore with fear. Students headed to med, law, grad
don’t usually so it. My premed won’t do any. The classes are very rigorous, with open curriculum the student chose it so all are invested. Not disputing gpa’s are high, but some of the nitty gritty tends to get misrepresented.

There was a drive in recent years to lower the GPAs at Brown. Incoming classes feel it. It is very rigorous. Lots and lots of hours in the library. This year’s class saw far more Bs and below.

Agree, my stem kid is feeling it. They report their humanities friends are also overwhelmed. I’m sure the other person posting knows more than current students though. 🙄

I’ll be honest, my kid went to a top ranked high school top of the class, perfect score on SAT no prep. I was not expecting this, and they would have lightened load accordingly if they could go back in time.

I have a humanities kid. Very rigorous. In library all the time. 1 point away from an A in two spring courses (worse than if it want close). Also tough private, uw4, perfect ACT- no prep. Brown Herald had an article about grade deflation, the recent pulling away from handing out as many As.

The last I saw was about grade INFLATION and too many As.

https://www.browndailyherald.com/article/2024/12/is-brown-giving-out-too-many-as-professors-discuss-grading-practices-grade-inflation

Brown is open curriculum. You can avoid subjects you think may be difficult for you or take pass/fail.

This only comes into play with electives, obviously, to encourage students to explore areas of study that are new to them. But every major/track has its own curriculum and required courses, and kids who get into Brown aren’t so dumb that they think future employers/grad school admissions committees won’t care that they took Econ or Orgo or whatever P/F

A is 6.3X more common than a B and 31.5X more common than a C.

[Anonymous]

Good luck with decision OP, can’t go wrong!

[Anonymous]

Brown med school, law school, business school and Ph.D placement is very strong. Have a kid going through the process now.

[Anonymous]

That mediocre rich kid reputation vs. other Ivies is a very stale impression from the late 1980s/early 1990s. In fact, in the last 10 years Brown has leaned into the hard stats (rigor adjusted GPA and SATs) much more than Harvard and Yale and has de-emphasized legacy much more so. Far fewer Jared Kushner types (whose daddy bought his way in) at Brown. W&M is a terrific school but Brown is outstanding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid graduated from Brown 4 years ago, breezed to a 4.0 double concentration (major) in the humanities. Was a little disappointed in how many rich, mediocre students there were but had 4-year access to top scholars in their field, had funded research opportunities, and got great recs that led to a phenomenal graduate program placement

Brown is one of the few Ivy League schools where top faculty engage full time with undergrads. The clout you get from a personalized Letter of Recommendation from a leading scholar combined with the research opportunities results in a very competitive grad school application that might be hard for a student from a public institution to match

Public has nothing to do with it. Is Michigan lesser than Elon? Didn't think so. Watch your mouth next time before spouting off.

DP. Wow, someone's triggered. True, private vs public has nothing to do with it, but Brown >>> W&M. That's just a fact.

Not sure that’s true. I used to think that, but a good friends kid just graduated from a top SLAC and the opportunities she had and personal effort put in by her professors and the school for her graduate school admissions was extraordinary, as were her results. His other kid is going to a top public school and has much lower grades despite being just as accomplished as his sister and busting his butt. My friend was completely surprised by this as well; he initially thought private school wasn’t worth the extra money over public, but has absolutely changed his mind. I see the same sorts of things with kids I interview as well. It seems to me that to do well at a well regarded public you need to be the absolute top of your class; to do well at a similar private you don’t need to stand out nearly as much.

It’s not that simplistic. Every kid (barring a few legacy/athletic star) are the cream of the crop—-Tippy top best from their respective HS. Every single one. So they are all the top. It’s not true at large state schools—maybe top 20% so the need to be at the very top is more important at the larger public.

That has not been my experience with Ivy grads at all. Plus, I was comparing two kids with almost the exact same background.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That mediocre rich kid reputation vs. other Ivies is a very stale impression from the late 1980s/early 1990s. In fact, in the last 10 years Brown has leaned into the hard stats (rigor adjusted GPA and SATs) much more than Harvard and Yale and has de-emphasized legacy much more so. Far fewer Jared Kushner types (whose daddy bought his way in) at Brown. W&M is a terrific school but Brown is outstanding.

Brown places highly in this analysis of colleges that have become much more difficult to get in to since 1985:

https://www.educationnext.org/yes-it-really-is-harder-to-get-into-highly-selective-colleges-today-comparison-sat-scores-over-time/

For the curious, these are the schools with marked increases in their SAT profiles for the time interval analyzed:

1. Elon College
2. University of Chicago
3. Ohio State
4. Pitzer College
5. UCLA
6. UC – San Diego
7. Boston College
8. Stony Brook
9. University of Pittsburgh
10. Georgia Tech
11. Case Western Reserve
12. Brown University
13. UNC – Chapel Hill
14. Notre Dame

[Anonymous]

Now Elon University, for those who might place importance on that distinction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Brown is probably the better choice but cost, location, vibe, etc. could tip the scales.

+1 (and adding open curriculum to the list of examples)

[Anonymous]

Brown has a good classics dept (and a number of classes cross registered with history and philosophy).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:W&M just because your DC could probably get a better gpa (much better?) at W&M which is basically all that matters for law school other than LSAT and work experience. That said, if Yale Law is her dream, go to Brown because they give a bump for Ivy+ schools.

Brown has tons of grade inflation!

And, you clearly have no experience there. Sure, kids can do S /NC to push them out of the box, and retake to replace an F (which I think is about good thing frankly), but courses are rigorous and not easy A. My kids from top DC are magnet are working hard. Others getting Bs and Cs

This is well documented.

https://www.browndailyherald.com/article/2022/04/brown-grade-inflation-continues-to-soar-data-shows
https://www.vox.com/xpress/2014/9/10/6132411/chart-grade-inflation-in-the-ivy-league-over-time
https://ripplematch.com/insights/the-top-15-universities-with-the-highest-average-gpas-4f4b544d

Didn’t read all articles, but not completely accurate. It is not true that you can’t earn a D or an F like one says. You absolutely can, the difference is that neither is passing and won’t show on external transcript so you can retake. The no +/- may help, but I think it tends to balance out in the end. My kid has lost an A by 1-2 points twice and it’s rough taking that to a 3.0. The S/NC some will take one class this way to explore with fear. Students headed to med, law, grad
don’t usually so it. My premed won’t do any. The classes are very rigorous, with open curriculum the student chose it so all are invested. Not disputing gpa’s are high, but some of the nitty gritty tends to get misrepresented.

There was a drive in recent years to lower the GPAs at Brown. Incoming classes feel it. It is very rigorous. Lots and lots of hours in the library. This year’s class saw far more Bs and below.

Agree, my stem kid is feeling it. They report their humanities friends are also overwhelmed. I’m sure the other person posting knows more than current students though. 🙄

I’ll be honest, my kid went to a top ranked high school top of the class, perfect score on SAT no prep. I was not expecting this, and they would have lightened load accordingly if they could go back in time.

I have a humanities kid. Very rigorous. In library all the time. 1 point away from an A in two spring courses (worse than if it want close). Also tough private, uw4, perfect ACT- no prep. Brown Herald had an article about grade deflation, the recent pulling away from handing out as many As.

The last I saw was about grade INFLATION and too many As.

https://www.browndailyherald.com/article/2024/12/is-brown-giving-out-too-many-as-professors-discuss-grading-practices-grade-inflation

Brown is open curriculum. You can avoid subjects you think may be difficult for you or take pass/fail.

They don't admit that type of student. They are looking for students passionate about cross fertilization, ones who creat their own gen ed from academic curiosity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:W&M just because your DC could probably get a better gpa (much better?) at W&M which is basically all that matters for law school other than LSAT and work experience. That said, if Yale Law is her dream, go to Brown because they give a bump for Ivy+ schools.

Brown has tons of grade inflation!

And, you clearly have no experience there. Sure, kids can do S /NC to push them out of the box, and retake to replace an F (which I think is about good thing frankly), but courses are rigorous and not easy A. My kids from top DC are magnet are working hard. Others getting Bs and Cs

This is well documented.

https://www.browndailyherald.com/article/2022/04/brown-grade-inflation-continues-to-soar-data-shows
https://www.vox.com/xpress/2014/9/10/6132411/chart-grade-inflation-in-the-ivy-league-over-time
https://ripplematch.com/insights/the-top-15-universities-with-the-highest-average-gpas-4f4b544d

Didn’t read all articles, but not completely accurate. It is not true that you can’t earn a D or an F like one says. You absolutely can, the difference is that neither is passing and won’t show on external transcript so you can retake. The no +/- may help, but I think it tends to balance out in the end. My kid has lost an A by 1-2 points twice and it’s rough taking that to a 3.0. The S/NC some will take one class this way to explore with fear. Students headed to med, law, grad
don’t usually so it. My premed won’t do any. The classes are very rigorous, with open curriculum the student chose it so all are invested. Not disputing gpa’s are high, but some of the nitty gritty tends to get misrepresented.

There was a drive in recent years to lower the GPAs at Brown. Incoming classes feel it. It is very rigorous. Lots and lots of hours in the library. This year’s class saw far more Bs and below.

Agree, my stem kid is feeling it. They report their humanities friends are also overwhelmed. I’m sure the other person posting knows more than current students though. 🙄

I’ll be honest, my kid went to a top ranked high school top of the class, perfect score on SAT no prep. I was not expecting this, and they would have lightened load accordingly if they could go back in time.

I have a humanities kid. Very rigorous. In library all the time. 1 point away from an A in two spring courses (worse than if it want close). Also tough private, uw4, perfect ACT- no prep. Brown Herald had an article about grade deflation, the recent pulling away from handing out as many As.

Same for my kid double majoring in STEM and arts. From top magnet, high test scores and working hard.

People here like to claim the STEM is somehow soft here compared to top ranked state schools, but my kid's friends there have it much easier so far. It's important to remember that much of those rankings are based on grad ed, and Brown is very undergrad focused.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:W&M just because your DC could probably get a better gpa (much better?) at W&M which is basically all that matters for law school other than LSAT and work experience. That said, if Yale Law is her dream, go to Brown because they give a bump for Ivy+ schools.

Brown has tons of grade inflation!

And, you clearly have no experience there. Sure, kids can do S /NC to push them out of the box, and retake to replace an F (which I think is about good thing frankly), but courses are rigorous and not easy A. My kids from top DC are magnet are working hard. Others getting Bs and Cs

This is well documented.

https://www.browndailyherald.com/article/2022/04/brown-grade-inflation-continues-to-soar-data-shows
https://www.vox.com/xpress/2014/9/10/6132411/chart-grade-inflation-in-the-ivy-league-over-time
https://ripplematch.com/insights/the-top-15-universities-with-the-highest-average-gpas-4f4b544d

Didn’t read all articles, but not completely accurate. It is not true that you can’t earn a D or an F like one says. You absolutely can, the difference is that neither is passing and won’t show on external transcript so you can retake. The no +/- may help, but I think it tends to balance out in the end. My kid has lost an A by 1-2 points twice and it’s rough taking that to a 3.0. The S/NC some will take one class this way to explore with fear. Students headed to med, law, grad
don’t usually so it. My premed won’t do any. The classes are very rigorous, with open curriculum the student chose it so all are invested. Not disputing gpa’s are high, but some of the nitty gritty tends to get misrepresented.

There was a drive in recent years to lower the GPAs at Brown. Incoming classes feel it. It is very rigorous. Lots and lots of hours in the library. This year’s class saw far more Bs and below.

Agree, my stem kid is feeling it. They report their humanities friends are also overwhelmed. I’m sure the other person posting knows more than current students though. 🙄

I’ll be honest, my kid went to a top ranked high school top of the class, perfect score on SAT no prep. I was not expecting this, and they would have lightened load accordingly if they could go back in time.

I have a humanities kid. Very rigorous. In library all the time. 1 point away from an A in two spring courses (worse than if it want close). Also tough private, uw4, perfect ACT- no prep. Brown Herald had an article about grade deflation, the recent pulling away from handing out as many As.

The last I saw was about grade INFLATION and too many As.

https://www.browndailyherald.com/article/2024/12/is-brown-giving-out-too-many-as-professors-discuss-grading-practices-grade-inflation

Brown is open curriculum. You can avoid subjects you think may be difficult for you or take pass/fail.

They don't admit that type of student. They are looking for students passionate about cross fertilization, ones who creat their own gen ed from academic curiosity.

They don't admit students who take classes pass/fail? The data says otherwise. Brown is a good candidate for the easiest grading school out there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:W&M just because your DC could probably get a better gpa (much better?) at W&M which is basically all that matters for law school other than LSAT and work experience. That said, if Yale Law is her dream, go to Brown because they give a bump for Ivy+ schools.

Brown has tons of grade inflation!

And, you clearly have no experience there. Sure, kids can do S /NC to push them out of the box, and retake to replace an F (which I think is about good thing frankly), but courses are rigorous and not easy A. My kids from top DC are magnet are working hard. Others getting Bs and Cs

This is well documented.

https://www.browndailyherald.com/article/2022/04/brown-grade-inflation-continues-to-soar-data-shows
https://www.vox.com/xpress/2014/9/10/6132411/chart-grade-inflation-in-the-ivy-league-over-time
https://ripplematch.com/insights/the-top-15-universities-with-the-highest-average-gpas-4f4b544d

Didn’t read all articles, but not completely accurate. It is not true that you can’t earn a D or an F like one says. You absolutely can, the difference is that neither is passing and won’t show on external transcript so you can retake. The no +/- may help, but I think it tends to balance out in the end. My kid has lost an A by 1-2 points twice and it’s rough taking that to a 3.0. The S/NC some will take one class this way to explore with fear. Students headed to med, law, grad
don’t usually so it. My premed won’t do any. The classes are very rigorous, with open curriculum the student chose it so all are invested. Not disputing gpa’s are high, but some of the nitty gritty tends to get misrepresented.

There was a drive in recent years to lower the GPAs at Brown. Incoming classes feel it. It is very rigorous. Lots and lots of hours in the library. This year’s class saw far more Bs and below.

Agree, my stem kid is feeling it. They report their humanities friends are also overwhelmed. I’m sure the other person posting knows more than current students though. 🙄

I’ll be honest, my kid went to a top ranked high school top of the class, perfect score on SAT no prep. I was not expecting this, and they would have lightened load accordingly if they could go back in time.

I have a humanities kid. Very rigorous. In library all the time. 1 point away from an A in two spring courses (worse than if it want close). Also tough private, uw4, perfect ACT- no prep. Brown Herald had an article about grade deflation, the recent pulling away from handing out as many As.

The last I saw was about grade INFLATION and too many As.

https://www.browndailyherald.com/article/2024/12/is-brown-giving-out-too-many-as-professors-discuss-grading-practices-grade-inflation

Brown is open curriculum. You can avoid subjects you think may be difficult for you or take pass/fail.

This only comes into play with electives, obviously, to encourage students to explore areas of study that are new to them. But every major/track has its own curriculum and required courses, and kids who get into Brown aren’t so dumb that they think future employers/grad school admissions committees won’t care that they took Econ or Orgo or whatever P/F

A is 6.3X more common than a B and 31.5X more common than a C.

When letter grades are awarded 81% are As.