Shifting interest in T25 schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's a few things. Students are becoming much more strategic with where they apply ED/SCEA. Top students are realizing it's pointless to apply early to Harvard, Princeton, Yale, or Stanford unless they have a major hook. So that's four schools gone. Columbia is becoming less appealing because most students don't want all that noise. So that's five schools that most of the best students are not applying to.

Among the strongest young men in particular, they want to see solid engineering and business programs, so they're looking at those schools instead of colleges that are historically weak in those fields. I don't think test optional policies matter that much for strong students. Most of the T25 were TO this cycle. Generally, it's students with a 1400+ who are deciding not to submit. It's not a bunch of 1100s who are sneaking in through the back door. And all of those students have AP scores to back up their transcripts.

Also, there is much more desire to get out of the northeast for college these days. And an Ivy brand resonates much more with parents than with the students themselves. But really, a top school with good business and engineering and where the best unhooked students can apply early is going to get a lot more attention these days. I think schools that have a lot more gravitational pull for various reasons are Duke, Vanderbilt, Rice - the southern schools - and Cornell, Penn, Northwestern - because they are good in engineering and business. And, importantly, a student applying ED will have a shot at these schools.

Complete bs. I know multiple high achieving HS kids in the DMV. And they are obsessed with the Ivies. Way more so than their parents actually

Agree. Every single male in the top group from our magnet wanted Engineering or Math. They all did Princeton, Penn, Stanford, Harvard, Cornell and MIT. Of the top females 3 of 5 wanted BME. They did some of the above and of course Hopkins. Engineering interest is almost an obsession these days, even among females, and they chase prestige. My kid is just a hair below the topmost rigor/highest stats kids and did ED at a private ranked close to 20 and got in. A few top kids got in to it RD, and other near-ivy level privates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Mothers still more concerned about their kids’ popularity and social status. So pathetic.

You’re projecting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think this is about "influencers" on A2C, TikTok, instagram. Who, I admit, I follow.

The story they tell is that SCEA is zero help, and if you're not hooked, can harm you.

You're better off EDing a half step or full step down and locking something in.

The lesson is that those T5 schools are out of favor - they're getting more apps now that pre-pandemic (less than when they were test optional and everyone was throwing one in). The story is they're IMPOSSIBLE really if you're unhooked so don't throw away your shot at ED. Use it wise ie, a T20/25, not T5.

Exactly. It's all about risk assessment. Some kids want to shoot their shot regardless, but my DC wanted to lock down an excellent option ED, an elite school where they knew they'd thrive, vs. trying for HYPS and risking ending up farther down the ladder. We are all very happy with how they approached it, and the results. Btw this was a 4.0uw/4.96w 36 ACT magnet kid who didn't want to take the risk, and also wasn't interested in the lower Ivies.

[Anonymous]

I guess I hit too close to home with the nerd reference. Yet, thirty years there were both non nerdy and nerdy kids at top schools and the same is true now. Some schools have a larger nerd population than others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I guess I hit too close to home with the nerd reference. Yet, thirty years there were both non nerdy and nerdy kids at top schools and the same is true now. Some schools have a larger nerd population than others.

I'm not triggered by the word nerd. DH and I were both nerds and so is one of our kids. We were specifically looking for a "happy nerd" environment for them, so ended up focusing on UChicago and WASP schools. Rice was also on our list, but we didn't have a chance to visit. For some kids, fit really matters.

[Anonymous]

From undergrad perspective, kids from non nerd schools like Duke, Stanford, Williams top Catholics(Notre Dame, Holy Cross) Dartmouth outperform in corporate/Wall Street. Kids from UChicago, Grinnell, Bates , Vassar.and Brown lag.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who keeps trying to make Rice happen? It’s a great school but most kids I know think it’s a niche school for quirky kids.

The word “quirky” needs to go away. Not every smart kid wants to join a fraternity or sorority. Mean mom energy.

I mean, would you rather we say “teens on the spectrum”? That seems less kind but I am certain that most of us are using “quirky” to avoid saying things like “huh, all 3 kids from DD’s class who are going to ____ U. next year have an autism diagnosis. Two pursuing math and one planning for biomedical engineering.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who keeps trying to make Rice happen? It’s a great school but most kids I know think it’s a niche school for quirky kids.

The word “quirky” needs to go away. Not every smart kid wants to join a fraternity or sorority. Mean mom energy.

Would you prefer I say school for nerds? Quirky seems preferable.

Every time quirky is used someone on this thread, someone says it needs to go away. It’s not insulting and it works as a descriptor! The language police need to take a break.

[Anonymous]

Anyone else wondering why these girls let a un-vetted person with a sketchy story into their home, not once, but twice?!?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who keeps trying to make Rice happen? It’s a great school but most kids I know think it’s a niche school for quirky kids.

The word “quirky” needs to go away. Not every smart kid wants to join a fraternity or sorority. Mean mom energy.

I mean, would you rather we say “teens on the spectrum”? That seems less kind but I am certain that most of us are using “quirky” to avoid saying things like “huh, all 3 kids from DD’s class who are going to ____ U. next year have an autism diagnosis. Two pursuing math and one planning for biomedical engineering.”

Agreed but also not all quirky kids are on the spectrum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Saw this mentioned in a few other posts and then just heard the below on a YCBK podcast so wanted to see if the regulars and parents in class of 25 agree…rise of Rice, stunning interest in Cornell, Vanderbilt, Northwestern and Duke. Limited interest in Columbia.

“I know in our company, we saw less Ivy League EDs this year, and people like those kinds of kids that wanted to look at the most selective schools, they were shifting to places like Duke and Vanderbilt and Northwestern, Georgetown, Rice.

Yeah.

This is like that. I saw it was very clearly printed. I mean, our numbers, I don't know if we can get into numbers, but I know within our company, we had five EDs to Northwestern, five to Duke, and maybe one to Penn.

I don't think we've had a single one to Columbia this year. Wow. We did have a bunch to Cornell.

I think we had four to Cornell this year, one to Dartmouth. But those are all places that would normally have at least as many or more. Penn, Columbia, Princeton, Harvard, Yale.

Those are places people would do their single-choice early action. Now they're like, I don't want to do it. Brown was not, you know, like just the numbers are down for us in those schools and up for other schools.

Yes.

Do you experience that as well?

Absolutely. Absolutely. Cornell probably was the top Ivy.

“And then it would be Northwestern, adjacent.

Yeah.

And then Duke, but no one, no one to Columbia. Not like, not even like a, oh no, my parents won't allow me to apply their pen. A lot of disinterest.

I saw students look at Rice where it was so hard to talk about it before. Like, like I was saying, okay, we're going to take a trip to Mars. But now people, because if you, you go to, to Rice and you visit, you realize, oh, this is what Stanford should look like.

It's so beautiful. It's so stunning. It's really spectacular.

The residential college program there is.

Yeah, they got that thing going on similar to Yale. They got a nice little program there.

I feel like kids are really tied to one another. They, they love their experience there. Every LA student I've ever sent to Rice has never transferred or regretted it.

So, I think, so I'm seeing this huge, really significant shift away from the schools you mentioned, even Harvard was.

Yeah, no, I agree. And if you look at those applications, they came out. Like Yale was down, Brown was down, Dartmouth was down almost 11%.

You know, they were down. Still had a lot of interest in the Midwest, especially Michigan and Wisconsin. Yes.

Those two schools continue to have a lot of interest. I'm seeing a lot more interest in IU Kelly than I've seen before. You know, I've seen more interest in that program.

They did some really cool things. And I got a chance to meet with one of their leaders at NACAC in LA.

Wow, nice.

Yeah, because they, you know, when you apply to Kelly before, you know, you either get in direct admit, it's just by the numbers or you can do review request. If you don't have the SAT or the GPA, you can do review request, which is an appeal program. And a lot of kids have done that appeal in one.

But now they've added a third one. It was really smart. Now you can come in pre-business, and you have to take six business classes and 30 credit hours.

And if you have a B average without any Cs and core classes, like you're automatically in. So they provided a third way[…]”

From Your College Bound Kid | Admission Tips, Admission Trends & Admission Interviews: What is your advice for a student who is content getting B’s, Apr 30, 2025

People listen to this? What a bunch of meaningless blather.

[Anonymous]

^ no wonder our kids are stressed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^ no wonder our kids are stressed.

Says a person who is reading and posting on a 'College and University Discussion' thread...

[Anonymous]

Everyone wants the elite schools to be less desired, but it’s not true and you all know it despite what you type here.

[Anonymous]

I think the point being made is that many kids who don’t have hooks are being wiser with their ED choices and not going the HYPSM route which to me makes sense. If you aren’t an athlete, big donor or legacy, Ivy is not going to happen for you unless you get struck by lightening and most people prefer to shoot their shot at equally impressive non-Ivy schools. The end!