Middle Schools Math Differentiation

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Please stop with the “these kids” generalizing statements about DCPS. My kids are both now in middle school and have attended title one ES and MS EOTP. Both of them were doing multiplication and long division by mid elementary school and had 100% mastered it before leaving for middle school. Are there some kids is their classes who have not mastered it? Sure. But it is part of the curriculum and the majority of kids have.

At this point, all middle schools are supposed to offer algebra by eighth grade, sounds like a couple may not yet but in the majority do.

If you pull the OSSE CAPE/PARCC spreadsheets, you can see the list of schools offering Algebra I and Geometry tend to vary year to year. Probably based on student interest. I think it's worth it to offer it even for just one kid, but of course we can acknowledge this has its cost financially and in the school's bandwidth.

ITDS recently announced Geometry for 8th graders, but in a small school like that it required thinking through the entire middle school math sequence, staffing, and scheduling and logistics. It was eye-opening to see how much goes into a change like this.

Not sure about other schools, but because Eliot Hine is so close to Eastern, the 8th grade Geometry cohort walks across the street to Eastern for their class, so they don't need to hire an additional teacher just for that group. If they aren't already, it could be a model other middle schools could use that are in proximity to their feeder HS (not sure how many there are in that category)

That is lovely, I'm glad they were able to align schedules to make it work with the time spent walking.

Does this cause them to show up in Eastern's Geometry CAPE stats rather than Eliot-Hine's? Just curious.

That is interesting - I don't know, as my child is still in 7th grade, but I assume it would still be linked to the middle school? I am pretty sure they have their own class, instead of mixing up high school and middle school. Eliot Hine is on a block schedule so they only have geometry 2-3 days per week so maybe that makes it easier b/c the class blocks are longer?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My god. The standards are so low for most people here.

Reality is:

8th grade math is basically below standard, “remedial” (no calculus in high school)
8th grade Algebra 1 is standard (Calculus by 12th grade)
7th grade Algebra 1 is accelerated (Calculus by 11th grade)
6th grade Algebra 1 is twice accelerated (Calculus by 10th grade)

The only schools that get kids to Calculus by 10th is Basis, Deal, Hardy, and DCI. DCI has integrated math so the courses are not labeled traditionally like above.

DCPS is way behind by only offering basically what is remedial math and some schools Algebra 1 in 8th, which at most schools is just the standard track. This should not be surprising when the overwhelming majority of kids are way below grade level. They don’t have the critical mass to offer accelerated so don’t.

What does a student gain by taking Calculus in 10th grade vs 12th?

The opportunity to take Calc BC rather than just Calc AB. Or to fit in some other class they're interested in. A lot of this is about not having to sit and be bored in slow-paced math classes from 6th to 12th grade, rather than wanting to reach a specific level.

If a student takes Algebra 1 in 8th, they can take Calculus AB in 11 and Calculus BC in 12. They don't need to take regular Calculus before taking AP Calc.

Really? Don't they take Geometry in 9th, algebra 2 in 10th, precalc in 11th and then AB Calc in 12th?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My god. The standards are so low for most people here.

Reality is:

8th grade math is basically below standard, “remedial” (no calculus in high school)
8th grade Algebra 1 is standard (Calculus by 12th grade)
7th grade Algebra 1 is accelerated (Calculus by 11th grade)
6th grade Algebra 1 is twice accelerated (Calculus by 10th grade)

The only schools that get kids to Calculus by 10th is Basis, Deal, Hardy, and DCI. DCI has integrated math so the courses are not labeled traditionally like above.

DCPS is way behind by only offering basically what is remedial math and some schools Algebra 1 in 8th, which at most schools is just the standard track. This should not be surprising when the overwhelming majority of kids are way below grade level. They don’t have the critical mass to offer accelerated so don’t.

What does a student gain by taking Calculus in 10th grade vs 12th?

The opportunity to take Calc BC rather than just Calc AB. Or to fit in some other class they're interested in. A lot of this is about not having to sit and be bored in slow-paced math classes from 6th to 12th grade, rather than wanting to reach a specific level.

If a student takes Algebra 1 in 8th, they can take Calculus AB in 11 and Calculus BC in 12. They don't need to take regular Calculus before taking AP Calc.

Really? Don't they take Geometry in 9th, algebra 2 in 10th, precalc in 11th and then AB Calc in 12th?

Oh right! I meant Algebra 1 in 7th.

I was responding to the poster above who said you needed to take Calculus in 10th to take Calclus BC. The point is you can start Calculus in 11th and take BC in 12th.

[Anonymous]

Here is the sequence. Each of these are basically one year classes (except at schools where algebra and geometry are taught together, which I think are BASIS and DCI).

Algebra
Geometry
Algebra 2
Precalc
AB Calc
BC Calc
Multivariable Calc or Statistics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is the sequence. Each of these are basically one year classes (except at schools where algebra and geometry are taught together, which I think are BASIS and DCI).

Algebra
Geometry
Algebra 2
Precalc
AB Calc
BC Calc
Multivariable Calc or Statistics.

Things may have changed in the (many) years since I was in high school - but I remember I took regular calculus my junior year, and then AP Statistics my senior year. Do schools around here offer AP Statistics? I remember that being one of my favorite math classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My god. The standards are so low for most people here.

Reality is:

8th grade math is basically below standard, “remedial” (no calculus in high school)
8th grade Algebra 1 is standard (Calculus by 12th grade)
7th grade Algebra 1 is accelerated (Calculus by 11th grade)
6th grade Algebra 1 is twice accelerated (Calculus by 10th grade)

The only schools that get kids to Calculus by 10th is Basis, Deal, Hardy, and DCI. DCI has integrated math so the courses are not labeled traditionally like above.

DCPS is way behind by only offering basically what is remedial math and some schools Algebra 1 in 8th, which at most schools is just the standard track. This should not be surprising when the overwhelming majority of kids are way below grade level. They don’t have the critical mass to offer accelerated so don’t.

What does a student gain by taking Calculus in 10th grade vs 12th?

The opportunity to take Calc BC rather than just Calc AB. Or to fit in some other class they're interested in. A lot of this is about not having to sit and be bored in slow-paced math classes from 6th to 12th grade, rather than wanting to reach a specific level.

If a student takes Algebra 1 in 8th, they can take Calculus AB in 11 and Calculus BC in 12. They don't need to take regular Calculus before taking AP Calc.

I'm still confused why people think kids should take AB Calc before BC. When I was a student at TJ in the dark ages nobody did this. We went from Pre-Calc to BC.

DC's private requires AB before BC and it drives me insane. If a kid is smart enough to take Calc in 11th, they are smart enough to handle a collegiate pace.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My god. The standards are so low for most people here.

Reality is:

8th grade math is basically below standard, “remedial” (no calculus in high school)
8th grade Algebra 1 is standard (Calculus by 12th grade)
7th grade Algebra 1 is accelerated (Calculus by 11th grade)
6th grade Algebra 1 is twice accelerated (Calculus by 10th grade)

The only schools that get kids to Calculus by 10th is Basis, Deal, Hardy, and DCI. DCI has integrated math so the courses are not labeled traditionally like above.

DCPS is way behind by only offering basically what is remedial math and some schools Algebra 1 in 8th, which at most schools is just the standard track. This should not be surprising when the overwhelming majority of kids are way below grade level. They don’t have the critical mass to offer accelerated so don’t.

What does a student gain by taking Calculus in 10th grade vs 12th?

The opportunity to take Calc BC rather than just Calc AB. Or to fit in some other class they're interested in. A lot of this is about not having to sit and be bored in slow-paced math classes from 6th to 12th grade, rather than wanting to reach a specific level.

If a student takes Algebra 1 in 8th, they can take Calculus AB in 11 and Calculus BC in 12. They don't need to take regular Calculus before taking AP Calc.

I'm still confused why people think kids should take AB Calc before BC. When I was a student at TJ in the dark ages nobody did this. We went from Pre-Calc to BC.

DC's private requires AB before BC and it drives me insane. If a kid is smart enough to take Calc in 11th, they are smart enough to handle a collegiate pace.

Same. in the late 90s in suburban NC, we had one AP Calc class -- we all did the AB material, and then at some point in the spring those of us who were ready/interested moved on to BC, and the others just reviewed AB material. then we took whichever test was most appropriate, so AB/BC was a one year course. My sons school (BASIS) splits them into two. At least they (presumably) learn it well if it's all stretched out!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My god. The standards are so low for most people here.

Reality is:

8th grade math is basically below standard, “remedial” (no calculus in high school)
8th grade Algebra 1 is standard (Calculus by 12th grade)
7th grade Algebra 1 is accelerated (Calculus by 11th grade)
6th grade Algebra 1 is twice accelerated (Calculus by 10th grade)

The only schools that get kids to Calculus by 10th is Basis, Deal, Hardy, and DCI. DCI has integrated math so the courses are not labeled traditionally like above.

DCPS is way behind by only offering basically what is remedial math and some schools Algebra 1 in 8th, which at most schools is just the standard track. This should not be surprising when the overwhelming majority of kids are way below grade level. They don’t have the critical mass to offer accelerated so don’t.

What does a student gain by taking Calculus in 10th grade vs 12th?

The other benefit of taking Calc by 10th or 11th is so the student can take AP physics with Calculus (instead of AP Physics with algebra). The AP Physics C course seems to be offered at Jackson Reed, McKinley Tech and Walls, and would not be an option for students who take Calc for the first time in 12th (meaning they started algebra in 8th).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My god. The standards are so low for most people here.

Reality is:

8th grade math is basically below standard, “remedial” (no calculus in high school)
8th grade Algebra 1 is standard (Calculus by 12th grade)
7th grade Algebra 1 is accelerated (Calculus by 11th grade)
6th grade Algebra 1 is twice accelerated (Calculus by 10th grade)

The only schools that get kids to Calculus by 10th is Basis, Deal, Hardy, and DCI. DCI has integrated math so the courses are not labeled traditionally like above.

DCPS is way behind by only offering basically what is remedial math and some schools Algebra 1 in 8th, which at most schools is just the standard track. This should not be surprising when the overwhelming majority of kids are way below grade level. They don’t have the critical mass to offer accelerated so don’t.

What does a student gain by taking Calculus in 10th grade vs 12th?

The opportunity to take Calc BC rather than just Calc AB. Or to fit in some other class they're interested in. A lot of this is about not having to sit and be bored in slow-paced math classes from 6th to 12th grade, rather than wanting to reach a specific level.

If a student takes Algebra 1 in 8th, they can take Calculus AB in 11 and Calculus BC in 12. They don't need to take regular Calculus before taking AP Calc.

I'm still confused why people think kids should take AB Calc before BC. When I was a student at TJ in the dark ages nobody did this. We went from Pre-Calc to BC.

DC's private requires AB before BC and it drives me insane. If a kid is smart enough to take Calc in 11th, they are smart enough to handle a collegiate pace.

Same. in the late 90s in suburban NC, we had one AP Calc class -- we all did the AB material, and then at some point in the spring those of us who were ready/interested moved on to BC, and the others just reviewed AB material. then we took whichever test was most appropriate, so AB/BC was a one year course. My sons school (BASIS) splits them into two. At least they (presumably) learn it well if it's all stretched out!

Similar in suburban Texas, mid-2000s. Sequence was Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2, Precalculus. Anyone who had completed that could opt to take either Calc AB or Calc BC. AP Stats was also offered; many took it concurrently with another math class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My god. The standards are so low for most people here.

Reality is:

8th grade math is basically below standard, “remedial” (no calculus in high school)
8th grade Algebra 1 is standard (Calculus by 12th grade)
7th grade Algebra 1 is accelerated (Calculus by 11th grade)
6th grade Algebra 1 is twice accelerated (Calculus by 10th grade)

The only schools that get kids to Calculus by 10th is Basis, Deal, Hardy, and DCI. DCI has integrated math so the courses are not labeled traditionally like above.

DCPS is way behind by only offering basically what is remedial math and some schools Algebra 1 in 8th, which at most schools is just the standard track. This should not be surprising when the overwhelming majority of kids are way below grade level. They don’t have the critical mass to offer accelerated so don’t.

What does a student gain by taking Calculus in 10th grade vs 12th?

There are a really small number of kids in DC who do this (highest levels at Deal, Hardy and DCI and everyone at BASIS) and it's nice to give those very mathy kids the chance to take BC calc in 11th and multivariable in 12th.

But the main concern is at the other end -- if most DCPS schools only offer Algebra in 8th, those schools are not meeting the needs of kids who want to go into math/science because they will at most be able to take AB calc in 12th, and the vast majority of the kids they will be competing with for college spots will have taken AB calc in 11th.

It's not necessary for all kids, of course, but it should be in option in all public schools to offer Geometry in 8th. (As is done in the burbs). Schools that don't are not meeting the needs of all of their students.

Well no. They may have the opportunity to catch up by doubling up math classes. I think it's extremely important to offer Algebra I in 7th and 8th, but I don't agree with the doom and gloom that they're forever banned from Calc BC or multivariable. They can take more math as an elective.

That's true! If we had ended up at a school that only offered algebra, we would have found a way to get our kid a geometry credit over the summer. Luckily he got a lottery spot at a school that has acceleration.

I think the main thing that bothers me these days is the very very low expectations of DCPS in middle school. I've heard it from teachers, SBOEs, and parents. We need to somehow convince DCPS that having high standards will help everyone succeed, and meeting the needs of advanced kids is part of their mandate.

100% agree. I just don't think it's good to tell people it's impossible to get ahead in math, because that just isn't true.

But it’s a terrible idea to try to double up on math the same year or cram it into a summer course. It is not going to be as comprehensive and kids are not going to get the opportunity to go as deep.

It’s not ideal and not a good option. The right answer is tracking with different level classes including accelerated math for those students who can handle it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My god. The standards are so low for most people here.

Reality is:

8th grade math is basically below standard, “remedial” (no calculus in high school)
8th grade Algebra 1 is standard (Calculus by 12th grade)
7th grade Algebra 1 is accelerated (Calculus by 11th grade)
6th grade Algebra 1 is twice accelerated (Calculus by 10th grade)

The only schools that get kids to Calculus by 10th is Basis, Deal, Hardy, and DCI. DCI has integrated math so the courses are not labeled traditionally like above.

DCPS is way behind by only offering basically what is remedial math and some schools Algebra 1 in 8th, which at most schools is just the standard track. This should not be surprising when the overwhelming majority of kids are way below grade level. They don’t have the critical mass to offer accelerated so don’t.

What does a student gain by taking Calculus in 10th grade vs 12th?

The opportunity to take Calc BC rather than just Calc AB. Or to fit in some other class they're interested in. A lot of this is about not having to sit and be bored in slow-paced math classes from 6th to 12th grade, rather than wanting to reach a specific level.

If a student takes Algebra 1 in 8th, they can take Calculus AB in 11 and Calculus BC in 12. They don't need to take regular Calculus before taking AP Calc.

I'm still confused why people think kids should take AB Calc before BC. When I was a student at TJ in the dark ages nobody did this. We went from Pre-Calc to BC.

DC's private requires AB before BC and it drives me insane. If a kid is smart enough to take Calc in 11th, they are smart enough to handle a collegiate pace.

Same. in the late 90s in suburban NC, we had one AP Calc class -- we all did the AB material, and then at some point in the spring those of us who were ready/interested moved on to BC, and the others just reviewed AB material. then we took whichever test was most appropriate, so AB/BC was a one year course. My sons school (BASIS) splits them into two. At least they (presumably) learn it well if it's all stretched out!

Similar in suburban Texas, mid-2000s. Sequence was Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2, Precalculus. Anyone who had completed that could opt to take either Calc AB or Calc BC. AP Stats was also offered; many took it concurrently with another math class.

Same for NYC magnet in the late 90s.