Middle Schools Math Differentiation

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every DCPS middle school will offer an accelerated math track starting next year.

Please say more about it! Accelerated to Geometry?

At a minimum Algebra 1 in 8th grade. If your student is ready for more, that’s something you can and should advocate for.

That is not accelerated. That is two years behind what is offered at BASIS and the highest tracks are Deal and Hardy, and one year behind Latin, DCI, SH, EH and the others than offer Geometry by 8th. To say nothing of the vast majority of suburban schools across the country.

I would say for college bound kids, it's not advisable to go to a middle school that can only get you to algebra by 8th. The kids will be out of step with their peers when applying to college.

The vast majority of kids at the fancy private schools take algebra 1 in 8th grade, calculus in 12, and manage to get into the "top" schools. Faster is not always better.

+1 Better to have a solid foundation than to over accelerate.

You are joking right to compare DCPS to private schools. Yes private schools don’t accelerate as much and do go deeper with more challenge. These kids are strong in math and can handle it.

Above is absolutely not the case in DCPS. These kids can’t even do multiplication or long division let alone anything higher than that.

Public schools offer acceleration because they can’t self select out all the kids who are at 3rd or 4th grade level math. So they accelerate high performing kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My god. The standards are so low for most people here.

Reality is:

8th grade math is basically below standard, “remedial” (no calculus in high school)
8th grade Algebra 1 is standard (Calculus by 12th grade)
7th grade Algebra 1 is accelerated (Calculus by 11th grade)
6th grade Algebra 1 is twice accelerated (Calculus by 10th grade)

The only schools that get kids to Calculus by 10th is Basis, Deal, Hardy, and DCI. DCI has integrated math so the courses are not labeled traditionally like above.

DCPS is way behind by only offering basically what is remedial math and some schools Algebra 1 in 8th, which at most schools is just the standard track. This should not be surprising when the overwhelming majority of kids are way below grade level. They don’t have the critical mass to offer accelerated so don’t.

What does a student gain by taking Calculus in 10th grade vs 12th?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My god. The standards are so low for most people here.

Reality is:

8th grade math is basically below standard, “remedial” (no calculus in high school)
8th grade Algebra 1 is standard (Calculus by 12th grade)
7th grade Algebra 1 is accelerated (Calculus by 11th grade)
6th grade Algebra 1 is twice accelerated (Calculus by 10th grade)

The only schools that get kids to Calculus by 10th is Basis, Deal, Hardy, and DCI. DCI has integrated math so the courses are not labeled traditionally like above.

DCPS is way behind by only offering basically what is remedial math and some schools Algebra 1 in 8th, which at most schools is just the standard track. This should not be surprising when the overwhelming majority of kids are way below grade level. They don’t have the critical mass to offer accelerated so don’t.

What does a student gain by taking Calculus in 10th grade vs 12th?

The opportunity to take Calc BC rather than just Calc AB. Or to fit in some other class they're interested in. A lot of this is about not having to sit and be bored in slow-paced math classes from 6th to 12th grade, rather than wanting to reach a specific level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My god. The standards are so low for most people here.

Reality is:

8th grade math is basically below standard, “remedial” (no calculus in high school)
8th grade Algebra 1 is standard (Calculus by 12th grade)
7th grade Algebra 1 is accelerated (Calculus by 11th grade)
6th grade Algebra 1 is twice accelerated (Calculus by 10th grade)

The only schools that get kids to Calculus by 10th is Basis, Deal, Hardy, and DCI. DCI has integrated math so the courses are not labeled traditionally like above.

DCPS is way behind by only offering basically what is remedial math and some schools Algebra 1 in 8th, which at most schools is just the standard track. This should not be surprising when the overwhelming majority of kids are way below grade level. They don’t have the critical mass to offer accelerated so don’t.

What does a student gain by taking Calculus in 10th grade vs 12th?

There are a really small number of kids in DC who do this (highest levels at Deal, Hardy and DCI and everyone at BASIS) and it's nice to give those very mathy kids the chance to take BC calc in 11th and multivariable in 12th.

But the main concern is at the other end -- if most DCPS schools only offer Algebra in 8th, those schools are not meeting the needs of kids who want to go into math/science because they will at most be able to take AB calc in 12th, and the vast majority of the kids they will be competing with for college spots will have taken AB calc in 11th.

It's not necessary for all kids, of course, but it should be in option in all public schools to offer Geometry in 8th. (As is done in the burbs). Schools that don't are not meeting the needs of all of their students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My god. The standards are so low for most people here.

Reality is:

8th grade math is basically below standard, “remedial” (no calculus in high school)
8th grade Algebra 1 is standard (Calculus by 12th grade)
7th grade Algebra 1 is accelerated (Calculus by 11th grade)
6th grade Algebra 1 is twice accelerated (Calculus by 10th grade)

The only schools that get kids to Calculus by 10th is Basis, Deal, Hardy, and DCI. DCI has integrated math so the courses are not labeled traditionally like above.

DCPS is way behind by only offering basically what is remedial math and some schools Algebra 1 in 8th, which at most schools is just the standard track. This should not be surprising when the overwhelming majority of kids are way below grade level. They don’t have the critical mass to offer accelerated so don’t.

What does a student gain by taking Calculus in 10th grade vs 12th?

There are a really small number of kids in DC who do this (highest levels at Deal, Hardy and DCI and everyone at BASIS) and it's nice to give those very mathy kids the chance to take BC calc in 11th and multivariable in 12th.

But the main concern is at the other end -- if most DCPS schools only offer Algebra in 8th, those schools are not meeting the needs of kids who want to go into math/science because they will at most be able to take AB calc in 12th, and the vast majority of the kids they will be competing with for college spots will have taken AB calc in 11th.

It's not necessary for all kids, of course, but it should be in option in all public schools to offer Geometry in 8th. (As is done in the burbs). Schools that don't are not meeting the needs of all of their students.

Well no. They may have the opportunity to catch up by doubling up math classes. I think it's extremely important to offer Algebra I in 7th and 8th, but I don't agree with the doom and gloom that they're forever banned from Calc BC or multivariable. They can take more math as an elective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My god. The standards are so low for most people here.

Reality is:

8th grade math is basically below standard, “remedial” (no calculus in high school)
8th grade Algebra 1 is standard (Calculus by 12th grade)
7th grade Algebra 1 is accelerated (Calculus by 11th grade)
6th grade Algebra 1 is twice accelerated (Calculus by 10th grade)

The only schools that get kids to Calculus by 10th is Basis, Deal, Hardy, and DCI. DCI has integrated math so the courses are not labeled traditionally like above.

DCPS is way behind by only offering basically what is remedial math and some schools Algebra 1 in 8th, which at most schools is just the standard track. This should not be surprising when the overwhelming majority of kids are way below grade level. They don’t have the critical mass to offer accelerated so don’t.

What does a student gain by taking Calculus in 10th grade vs 12th?

There are a really small number of kids in DC who do this (highest levels at Deal, Hardy and DCI and everyone at BASIS) and it's nice to give those very mathy kids the chance to take BC calc in 11th and multivariable in 12th.

But the main concern is at the other end -- if most DCPS schools only offer Algebra in 8th, those schools are not meeting the needs of kids who want to go into math/science because they will at most be able to take AB calc in 12th, and the vast majority of the kids they will be competing with for college spots will have taken AB calc in 11th.

It's not necessary for all kids, of course, but it should be in option in all public schools to offer Geometry in 8th. (As is done in the burbs). Schools that don't are not meeting the needs of all of their students.

Well no. They may have the opportunity to catch up by doubling up math classes. I think it's extremely important to offer Algebra I in 7th and 8th, but I don't agree with the doom and gloom that they're forever banned from Calc BC or multivariable. They can take more math as an elective.

That's true! If we had ended up at a school that only offered algebra, we would have found a way to get our kid a geometry credit over the summer. Luckily he got a lottery spot at a school that has acceleration.

I think the main thing that bothers me these days is the very very low expectations of DCPS in middle school. I've heard it from teachers, SBOEs, and parents. We need to somehow convince DCPS that having high standards will help everyone succeed, and meeting the needs of advanced kids is part of their mandate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My god. The standards are so low for most people here.

Reality is:

8th grade math is basically below standard, “remedial” (no calculus in high school)
8th grade Algebra 1 is standard (Calculus by 12th grade)
7th grade Algebra 1 is accelerated (Calculus by 11th grade)
6th grade Algebra 1 is twice accelerated (Calculus by 10th grade)

The only schools that get kids to Calculus by 10th is Basis, Deal, Hardy, and DCI. DCI has integrated math so the courses are not labeled traditionally like above.

DCPS is way behind by only offering basically what is remedial math and some schools Algebra 1 in 8th, which at most schools is just the standard track. This should not be surprising when the overwhelming majority of kids are way below grade level. They don’t have the critical mass to offer accelerated so don’t.

What does a student gain by taking Calculus in 10th grade vs 12th?

There are a really small number of kids in DC who do this (highest levels at Deal, Hardy and DCI and everyone at BASIS) and it's nice to give those very mathy kids the chance to take BC calc in 11th and multivariable in 12th.

But the main concern is at the other end -- if most DCPS schools only offer Algebra in 8th, those schools are not meeting the needs of kids who want to go into math/science because they will at most be able to take AB calc in 12th, and the vast majority of the kids they will be competing with for college spots will have taken AB calc in 11th.

It's not necessary for all kids, of course, but it should be in option in all public schools to offer Geometry in 8th. (As is done in the burbs). Schools that don't are not meeting the needs of all of their students.

Well no. They may have the opportunity to catch up by doubling up math classes. I think it's extremely important to offer Algebra I in 7th and 8th, but I don't agree with the doom and gloom that they're forever banned from Calc BC or multivariable. They can take more math as an elective.

That's true! If we had ended up at a school that only offered algebra, we would have found a way to get our kid a geometry credit over the summer. Luckily he got a lottery spot at a school that has acceleration.

I think the main thing that bothers me these days is the very very low expectations of DCPS in middle school. I've heard it from teachers, SBOEs, and parents. We need to somehow convince DCPS that having high standards will help everyone succeed, and meeting the needs of advanced kids is part of their mandate.

100% agree. I just don't think it's good to tell people it's impossible to get ahead in math, because that just isn't true.

[Anonymous]

Please stop with the “these kids” generalizing statements about DCPS. My kids are both now in middle school and have attended title one ES and MS EOTP. Both of them were doing multiplication and long division by mid elementary school and had 100% mastered it before leaving for middle school. Are there some kids is their classes who have not mastered it? Sure. But it is part of the curriculum and the majority of kids have.

At this point, all middle schools are supposed to offer algebra by eighth grade, sounds like a couple may not yet but in the majority do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Please stop with the “these kids” generalizing statements about DCPS. My kids are both now in middle school and have attended title one ES and MS EOTP. Both of them were doing multiplication and long division by mid elementary school and had 100% mastered it before leaving for middle school. Are there some kids is their classes who have not mastered it? Sure. But it is part of the curriculum and the majority of kids have.

At this point, all middle schools are supposed to offer algebra by eighth grade, sounds like a couple may not yet but in the majority do.

If you pull the OSSE CAPE/PARCC spreadsheets, you can see the list of schools offering Algebra I and Geometry tend to vary year to year. Probably based on student interest. I think it's worth it to offer it even for just one kid, but of course we can acknowledge this has its cost financially and in the school's bandwidth.

ITDS recently announced Geometry for 8th graders, but in a small school like that it required thinking through the entire middle school math sequence, staffing, and scheduling and logistics. It was eye-opening to see how much goes into a change like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Please stop with the “these kids” generalizing statements about DCPS. My kids are both now in middle school and have attended title one ES and MS EOTP. Both of them were doing multiplication and long division by mid elementary school and had 100% mastered it before leaving for middle school. Are there some kids is their classes who have not mastered it? Sure. But it is part of the curriculum and the majority of kids have.

At this point, all middle schools are supposed to offer algebra by eighth grade, sounds like a couple may not yet but in the majority do.

If you pull the OSSE CAPE/PARCC spreadsheets, you can see the list of schools offering Algebra I and Geometry tend to vary year to year. Probably based on student interest. I think it's worth it to offer it even for just one kid, but of course we can acknowledge this has its cost financially and in the school's bandwidth.

ITDS recently announced Geometry for 8th graders, but in a small school like that it required thinking through the entire middle school math sequence, staffing, and scheduling and logistics. It was eye-opening to see how much goes into a change like this.

Not sure about other schools, but because Eliot Hine is so close to Eastern, the 8th grade Geometry cohort walks across the street to Eastern for their class, so they don't need to hire an additional teacher just for that group. If they aren't already, it could be a model other middle schools could use that are in proximity to their feeder HS (not sure how many there are in that category)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every DCPS middle school will offer an accelerated math track starting next year.

Please say more about it! Accelerated to Geometry?

At a minimum Algebra 1 in 8th grade. If your student is ready for more, that’s something you can and should advocate for.

That is not accelerated. That is two years behind what is offered at BASIS and the highest tracks are Deal and Hardy, and one year behind Latin, DCI, SH, EH and the others than offer Geometry by 8th. To say nothing of the vast majority of suburban schools across the country.

I would say for college bound kids, it's not advisable to go to a middle school that can only get you to algebra by 8th. The kids will be out of step with their peers when applying to college.

Comparing yourself to basis is not the same as determining what is actually on track. Algebra is technically a 9th grade class and many people take it then. All DCPS middle schools are supposed to offer algebra by 8th, and many (like those listed above) offer algebra in 7th and geometry in 8th for those who are ready.

While algebra might technically be a 9th grade class, pretty much every kid that wants to be competitive for a good college- not even selective, merely good- needs to have AP calc AB on their transcript at a minimum. That’s the gate right now. And any parent who is looking at their kids going to college will be working backwards from that requirement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Please stop with the “these kids” generalizing statements about DCPS. My kids are both now in middle school and have attended title one ES and MS EOTP. Both of them were doing multiplication and long division by mid elementary school and had 100% mastered it before leaving for middle school. Are there some kids is their classes who have not mastered it? Sure. But it is part of the curriculum and the majority of kids have.

At this point, all middle schools are supposed to offer algebra by eighth grade, sounds like a couple may not yet but in the majority do.

If you pull the OSSE CAPE/PARCC spreadsheets, you can see the list of schools offering Algebra I and Geometry tend to vary year to year. Probably based on student interest. I think it's worth it to offer it even for just one kid, but of course we can acknowledge this has its cost financially and in the school's bandwidth.

ITDS recently announced Geometry for 8th graders, but in a small school like that it required thinking through the entire middle school math sequence, staffing, and scheduling and logistics. It was eye-opening to see how much goes into a change like this.

Not sure about other schools, but because Eliot Hine is so close to Eastern, the 8th grade Geometry cohort walks across the street to Eastern for their class, so they don't need to hire an additional teacher just for that group. If they aren't already, it could be a model other middle schools could use that are in proximity to their feeder HS (not sure how many there are in that category)

That's lovely, but they still do need to align time slots and allow time for walking. And Eastern has to have the bandwidth for it. I'm very glad this is working out. I know something similar happens with McKinley Middle and McKinley Tech sometimes, which are just across an alley from each other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Please stop with the “these kids” generalizing statements about DCPS. My kids are both now in middle school and have attended title one ES and MS EOTP. Both of them were doing multiplication and long division by mid elementary school and had 100% mastered it before leaving for middle school. Are there some kids is their classes who have not mastered it? Sure. But it is part of the curriculum and the majority of kids have.

At this point, all middle schools are supposed to offer algebra by eighth grade, sounds like a couple may not yet but in the majority do.

If you pull the OSSE CAPE/PARCC spreadsheets, you can see the list of schools offering Algebra I and Geometry tend to vary year to year. Probably based on student interest. I think it's worth it to offer it even for just one kid, but of course we can acknowledge this has its cost financially and in the school's bandwidth.

ITDS recently announced Geometry for 8th graders, but in a small school like that it required thinking through the entire middle school math sequence, staffing, and scheduling and logistics. It was eye-opening to see how much goes into a change like this.

Not sure about other schools, but because Eliot Hine is so close to Eastern, the 8th grade Geometry cohort walks across the street to Eastern for their class, so they don't need to hire an additional teacher just for that group. If they aren't already, it could be a model other middle schools could use that are in proximity to their feeder HS (not sure how many there are in that category)

That's lovely, but they still do need to align time slots and allow time for walking. And Eastern has to have the bandwidth for it. I'm very glad this is working out. I know something similar happens with McKinley Middle and McKinley Tech sometimes, which are just across an alley from each other.

This happens at Wells and Coolidge too, since they are in the same building.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Please stop with the “these kids” generalizing statements about DCPS. My kids are both now in middle school and have attended title one ES and MS EOTP. Both of them were doing multiplication and long division by mid elementary school and had 100% mastered it before leaving for middle school. Are there some kids is their classes who have not mastered it? Sure. But it is part of the curriculum and the majority of kids have.

At this point, all middle schools are supposed to offer algebra by eighth grade, sounds like a couple may not yet but in the majority do.

If you pull the OSSE CAPE/PARCC spreadsheets, you can see the list of schools offering Algebra I and Geometry tend to vary year to year. Probably based on student interest. I think it's worth it to offer it even for just one kid, but of course we can acknowledge this has its cost financially and in the school's bandwidth.

ITDS recently announced Geometry for 8th graders, but in a small school like that it required thinking through the entire middle school math sequence, staffing, and scheduling and logistics. It was eye-opening to see how much goes into a change like this.

Not sure about other schools, but because Eliot Hine is so close to Eastern, the 8th grade Geometry cohort walks across the street to Eastern for their class, so they don't need to hire an additional teacher just for that group. If they aren't already, it could be a model other middle schools could use that are in proximity to their feeder HS (not sure how many there are in that category)

That is lovely, I'm glad they were able to align schedules to make it work with the time spent walking.

Does this cause them to show up in Eastern's Geometry CAPE stats rather than Eliot-Hine's? Just curious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My god. The standards are so low for most people here.

Reality is:

8th grade math is basically below standard, “remedial” (no calculus in high school)
8th grade Algebra 1 is standard (Calculus by 12th grade)
7th grade Algebra 1 is accelerated (Calculus by 11th grade)
6th grade Algebra 1 is twice accelerated (Calculus by 10th grade)

The only schools that get kids to Calculus by 10th is Basis, Deal, Hardy, and DCI. DCI has integrated math so the courses are not labeled traditionally like above.

DCPS is way behind by only offering basically what is remedial math and some schools Algebra 1 in 8th, which at most schools is just the standard track. This should not be surprising when the overwhelming majority of kids are way below grade level. They don’t have the critical mass to offer accelerated so don’t.

What does a student gain by taking Calculus in 10th grade vs 12th?

The opportunity to take Calc BC rather than just Calc AB. Or to fit in some other class they're interested in. A lot of this is about not having to sit and be bored in slow-paced math classes from 6th to 12th grade, rather than wanting to reach a specific level.

If a student takes Algebra 1 in 8th, they can take Calculus AB in 11 and Calculus BC in 12. They don't need to take regular Calculus before taking AP Calc.