$300 ticket for not stopping on 4 lane road for school bus

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you see a school bus, you should be prepared to stop. Whether they need to change routes or move stops to quieter streets means nothing when the question is whether YOU should stop. Bus = foot off the gas and on the brake.

Go ahead and contest it, OP. But pls don’t waste everyone’s time pleading fatigue. That’s impaired driving. Or confusion about the lights. That’s lack of understanding of driving laws.

On second thought, just pay the fine and come here and complain about it more. It will be cheaper in the end.

And just wait till your baby is riding a bus and some idiot doesn’t stop.

Op here. I have an older child who rides the bus. Please don’t order me around. I hope one day something similar happens to you because you sound like a bi***

Then you should be even more concerned about your own lack of awareness of traffic laws and basic safety around a school bus. You sound like an idiot trying to defend your bad driving. Just pay your fine.

OK, you need to calm down instead of dumping on OP. Several of us have posted that we've had tickets too, and described situations where it's very difficult to see the bus, or identify quickly enough that it's a situation where stopping is required (because you don't just stop every time you see a school bus, you'd end up being hit by other cars around you).

OP has raised a very important subject of discussion: that sometimes school bus laws present too much of a burden on drivers for no marked safety benefit.

OP is trying to find a good excuse to take to court to contest her fine. Fatigue. Baby in the car. Confusing lights. She’s isn’t going to win with any of those arguments. If anything, the PP is saving OP from a bigger fine.

-DP

Op didn’t say she or he would give any of those reasons. She mentioned she was following a green but didn’t say the lights were “confusing”. Sounds like you just want to sh** on a new mom.

So what would be her basis for contesting the ticket? Acc to you, it would be the standard waiver of traffic laws for new moms.

Op here. I didn’t lead with that. I mentioned I’m sleep deprived because I am very tired today and didn’t have a lot of time to write the post. There wasn’t a median but there are double yellow lines. This sort of thing has never happened to me. The bus was also a small bus which made it a little less obvious. We have lived in a handful of states and I am new to PA. The particular road has a ton of accidents especially at intersections. I lived in Miami and let’s just say people were relaxed with traffic laws but pa has more accidents I’ve noticed.

school bus, flashing lights, no median? guilty, next. Maybe the judge will add in a required driver's ed class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you see a school bus, you should be prepared to stop. Whether they need to change routes or move stops to quieter streets means nothing when the question is whether YOU should stop. Bus = foot off the gas and on the brake.

Go ahead and contest it, OP. But pls don’t waste everyone’s time pleading fatigue. That’s impaired driving. Or confusion about the lights. That’s lack of understanding of driving laws.

On second thought, just pay the fine and come here and complain about it more. It will be cheaper in the end.

And just wait till your baby is riding a bus and some idiot doesn’t stop.

Op here. I have an older child who rides the bus. Please don’t order me around. I hope one day something similar happens to you because you sound like a bi***

Then you should be even more concerned about your own lack of awareness of traffic laws and basic safety around a school bus. You sound like an idiot trying to defend your bad driving. Just pay your fine.

OK, you need to calm down instead of dumping on OP. Several of us have posted that we've had tickets too, and described situations where it's very difficult to see the bus, or identify quickly enough that it's a situation where stopping is required (because you don't just stop every time you see a school bus, you'd end up being hit by other cars around you).

OP has raised a very important subject of discussion: that sometimes school bus laws present too much of a burden on drivers for no marked safety benefit.

What do you propose? Replacing one law with 20 different ones depending on scenario? That would be confusing and replace the current situation where a broad law might occasionally seem overreaching with one where mistakes are made and people are hurt because there is a multitude of laws and people get confused between them.

I propose that school buses do their utmost NOT to drop off on roads that have more than 2 lanes + a turn lane, and that if they absolutely need to drop off on a road with more lanes, that the cars on those multiple-lane roads should not be required to stop.
Stopping suddenly when there are multiple lanes is a traffic hazard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you see a school bus, you should be prepared to stop. Whether they need to change routes or move stops to quieter streets means nothing when the question is whether YOU should stop. Bus = foot off the gas and on the brake.

Go ahead and contest it, OP. But pls don’t waste everyone’s time pleading fatigue. That’s impaired driving. Or confusion about the lights. That’s lack of understanding of driving laws.

On second thought, just pay the fine and come here and complain about it more. It will be cheaper in the end.

And just wait till your baby is riding a bus and some idiot doesn’t stop.

Op here. I have an older child who rides the bus. Please don’t order me around. I hope one day something similar happens to you because you sound like a bi***

Then you should be even more concerned about your own lack of awareness of traffic laws and basic safety around a school bus. You sound like an idiot trying to defend your bad driving. Just pay your fine.

OK, you need to calm down instead of dumping on OP. Several of us have posted that we've had tickets too, and described situations where it's very difficult to see the bus, or identify quickly enough that it's a situation where stopping is required (because you don't just stop every time you see a school bus, you'd end up being hit by other cars around you).

OP has raised a very important subject of discussion: that sometimes school bus laws present too much of a burden on drivers for no marked safety benefit.

What do you propose? Replacing one law with 20 different ones depending on scenario? That would be confusing and replace the current situation where a broad law might occasionally seem overreaching with one where mistakes are made and people are hurt because there is a multitude of laws and people get confused between them.

I propose that school buses do their utmost NOT to drop off on roads that have more than 2 lanes + a turn lane, and that if they absolutely need to drop off on a road with more lanes, that the cars on those multiple-lane roads should not be required to stop.
Stopping suddenly when there are multiple lanes is a traffic hazard.

Please. OP had just been at a traffic light. She wasn't going down a highway at 60 MPH and had to come to a halt.
l

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The law on stopping for a school bus is crystal clear. IMO the penalty should be the same as DUI because you are selfishly endangering children and shouldn’t have a license.

Pay the fine and be grateful it’s so low.

Children aren’t getting dropped off across the street at the fire department. They were going to DAYCARE at 11:53 am in the morning. Most likely right after half day kindergarten. There should be some exceptions when they know children won’t be crossing the street.

That would lead to confusion and assumptions people would make on when kids shoujd be crossing or not. So to keep it simple with no gray area or confusion the law says stop unless there is a median.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The people piling on the OP are ridiculous. OP, go ahead and contest the ticket, see what happens.

Maybe you should know better, but I also know municipalities do all sort of crazy revenue schemes in the name of safety. I also know we should all be as safe as possible around school buses. See what the judge says.

This. Just go to the informal hearing. Take some pictures of the intersection and where the bus was stopped, where you turned, etc. Explain what you’ve said here. You have nothing to lose (other the time). The officer may not show up or the judge may reduce it. Or judge says pay it and you move on. I’d go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The people piling on the OP are ridiculous. OP, go ahead and contest the ticket, see what happens.

Maybe you should know better, but I also know municipalities do all sort of crazy revenue schemes in the name of safety. I also know we should all be as safe as possible around school buses. See what the judge says.

This. Just go to the informal hearing. Take some pictures of the intersection and where the bus was stopped, where you turned, etc. Explain what you’ve said here. You have nothing to lose (other the time). The officer may not show up or the judge may reduce it. Or judge says pay it and you move on. I’d go.

The judge can add a requirement that you attend a driver training class!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The people piling on the OP are ridiculous. OP, go ahead and contest the ticket, see what happens.

Maybe you should know better, but I also know municipalities do all sort of crazy revenue schemes in the name of safety. I also know we should all be as safe as possible around school buses. See what the judge says.

Cars stopping at school buses isn't some kind of crazy revenue stream. You see the lights flashing you stop. It should be 100% automatic for every driver. Adding weird rules like "unless it's Kindergarten drop off" or "depending on what's on the other side of the street" or "unless you are confused by traffic lights" puts kids at risk. It needs to be perfectly simple. School bus lights = stop.

OP has a point though. Kids are not permitted to cross more than three lanes of traffic when getting off of a school bus. In some states, if there are more than 3 lanes, you don’t need to stop for bus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The people piling on the OP are ridiculous. OP, go ahead and contest the ticket, see what happens.

Maybe you should know better, but I also know municipalities do all sort of crazy revenue schemes in the name of safety. I also know we should all be as safe as possible around school buses. See what the judge says.

This. Just go to the informal hearing. Take some pictures of the intersection and where the bus was stopped, where you turned, etc. Explain what you’ve said here. You have nothing to lose (other the time). The officer may not show up or the judge may reduce it. Or judge says pay it and you move on. I’d go.

The judge can add a requirement that you attend a driver training class!

They might…but unlikely. Have you ever been to traffic court? I have never in my life seen more crazy and dysfunctional in my life. Judges are human. Show up sober, acting sane and normal, well dressed, not argumentative and simply explain what happened and odds are in your favor it will get reduced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The people piling on the OP are ridiculous. OP, go ahead and contest the ticket, see what happens.

Maybe you should know better, but I also know municipalities do all sort of crazy revenue schemes in the name of safety. I also know we should all be as safe as possible around school buses. See what the judge says.

This. Just go to the informal hearing. Take some pictures of the intersection and where the bus was stopped, where you turned, etc. Explain what you’ve said here. You have nothing to lose (other the time). The officer may not show up or the judge may reduce it. Or judge says pay it and you move on. I’d go.

The judge can add a requirement that you attend a driver training class!

They might…but unlikely. Have you ever been to traffic court? I have never in my life seen more crazy and dysfunctional in my life. Judges are human. Show up sober, acting sane and normal, well dressed, not argumentative and simply explain what happened and odds are in your favor it will get reduced.

untrue

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The law on stopping for a school bus is crystal clear. IMO the penalty should be the same as DUI because you are selfishly endangering children and shouldn’t have a license.

Pay the fine and be grateful it’s so low.

Children aren’t getting dropped off across the street at the fire department. They were going to DAYCARE at 11:53 am in the morning. Most likely right after half day kindergarten. There should be some exceptions when they know children won’t be crossing the street.

No exceptions. Same here, OP, only in my case it was $500. I truly didn't remember that you had to stop even if the bus was 4 lanes away. I hadn't driven in areas with buses in years. I paid up, read up on the bus stopping rules, and have sure as heck never failed to stop for a bus again.

Be a good citizen and do your duty and take it as a warning. Traffic rules benefit all of us even if, in a particular moment, they seem silly. Just like you wouldn't be surprised if you got pulled over for doing 100 in a 55 mile an hour zone even if it was 2 am and no cars on the highway. Rule is the rule.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The people piling on the OP are ridiculous. OP, go ahead and contest the ticket, see what happens.

Maybe you should know better, but I also know municipalities do all sort of crazy revenue schemes in the name of safety. I also know we should all be as safe as possible around school buses. See what the judge says.

Cars stopping at school buses isn't some kind of crazy revenue stream. You see the lights flashing you stop. It should be 100% automatic for every driver. Adding weird rules like "unless it's Kindergarten drop off" or "depending on what's on the other side of the street" or "unless you are confused by traffic lights" puts kids at risk. It needs to be perfectly simple. School bus lights = stop.

It's never so simple, though, and that's why people complain. On multi-lane roads in traffic, it can get really tricky to see the school bus on the opposite side, multiple lanes away, figure out if there's a median, and then come to a screeching halt because you're now right at the level of the bus and you've just decided you need to stop... only to be rear-ended by the guy behind you because he wasn't expecting you to stop.

Most people around me have received tickets for not stopping for school buses and it's always a case of highly-trafficked, multi-lane roads like this, or the intersection case a PP was mentioning - when there's a distinct risk of collision if you don't clear the bloody intersection! If it's a simple 2 lane road with a school bus, obviously everyone stops.

Op here. Omg thank you so much! I have a 3 month old and I am SO SO sleep deprived. My brain isn’t functioning properly. I don’t drive unless it’s absolutely necessary and I was headed back from preschool pickup.

You can be as mad as you want and you can’t actually say this to a judge in court and expect to have this waived. Pay the fine (before it doubles in 2 weeks) and call it lesson learned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The people piling on the OP are ridiculous. OP, go ahead and contest the ticket, see what happens.

Maybe you should know better, but I also know municipalities do all sort of crazy revenue schemes in the name of safety. I also know we should all be as safe as possible around school buses. See what the judge says.

Cars stopping at school buses isn't some kind of crazy revenue stream. You see the lights flashing you stop. It should be 100% automatic for every driver. Adding weird rules like "unless it's Kindergarten drop off" or "depending on what's on the other side of the street" or "unless you are confused by traffic lights" puts kids at risk. It needs to be perfectly simple. School bus lights = stop.

It's never so simple, though, and that's why people complain. On multi-lane roads in traffic, it can get really tricky to see the school bus on the opposite side, multiple lanes away, figure out if there's a median, and then come to a screeching halt because you're now right at the level of the bus and you've just decided you need to stop... only to be rear-ended by the guy behind you because he wasn't expecting you to stop.

Most people around me have received tickets for not stopping for school buses and it's always a case of highly-trafficked, multi-lane roads like this, or the intersection case a PP was mentioning - when there's a distinct risk of collision if you don't clear the bloody intersection! If it's a simple 2 lane road with a school bus, obviously everyone stops.

Op here. Omg thank you so much! I have a 3 month old and I am SO SO sleep deprived. My brain isn’t functioning properly. I don’t drive unless it’s absolutely necessary and I was headed back from preschool pickup.

You can be as mad as you want and you can’t actually say this to a judge in court and expect to have this waived. Pay the fine (before it doubles in 2 weeks) and call it lesson learned.

and court costs are added to contested cases

[Anonymous]

You should have stopped. There was no divide and you had to stop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The people piling on the OP are ridiculous. OP, go ahead and contest the ticket, see what happens.

Maybe you should know better, but I also know municipalities do all sort of crazy revenue schemes in the name of safety. I also know we should all be as safe as possible around school buses. See what the judge says.

Cars stopping at school buses isn't some kind of crazy revenue stream. You see the lights flashing you stop. It should be 100% automatic for every driver. Adding weird rules like "unless it's Kindergarten drop off" or "depending on what's on the other side of the street" or "unless you are confused by traffic lights" puts kids at risk. It needs to be perfectly simple. School bus lights = stop.

OP has a point though. Kids are not permitted to cross more than three lanes of traffic when getting off of a school bus. In some states, if there are more than 3 lanes, you don’t need to stop for bus.

But one reason for these rules is that kids are inherently unpredictable. They will go in unexpected directions, whether or not they are permitted to do so. Drivers need to be extra careful around buses because the consequences of inattentive driver plus unpredictable child can be severe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The law on stopping for a school bus is crystal clear. IMO the penalty should be the same as DUI because you are selfishly endangering children and shouldn’t have a license.

Pay the fine and be grateful it’s so low.

Children aren’t getting dropped off across the street at the fire department. They were going to DAYCARE at 11:53 am in the morning. Most likely right after half day kindergarten. There should be some exceptions when they know children won’t be crossing the street.

There should not be any exceptions. Children, especially children that young, are unpredictable.

Op here. I think it was also the traffic lights that also made it confusing because I just had a green light and turned the corner. I think I was in the front of the line. I don’t think I’ve ever came across a school bus on a 4 lane road. I’ve always stopped obviously on 2 land roads.

You need to stop whenever you see a school bus stopped with its stop sign. You know what a stop sign means I assume? Stop at it. If there is a physical median between you and the bus - like, you know, a grassy area- you can consider yourself on a different road than the bus. Otherwise, you stop. It’s so easy. I’m surprised you haven’t been ticketed before because you deserve to be.