REAL ID and MAGA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

e someone with a home birth and no social security number who is having trouble proving her identity - esp if parents didn’t believe in vaccination or public school. They turn 18 and are basically screwed, they need a lawyers help to sort it out!

How many people do you think this applies to?

As for the home birth and no social security number, in the past this applied to lots of people. First step: find someone to certify you. My parents were both born at home. They did have Social Security numbers as they had worked, but when it came time to claim benefits they had to prove their age. My mom's older sister certified her age--she was only 16 months older. She (my aunt) was certified by a neighbor who was an adult when she was born. I'm not sure what my dad did, but he likely had a passport since he had been in the Merchant Marines when young.

My father's aunt used a baptismal certificate.

But, it is doubtful there are that many people who are born at home, homeschooled and unvaccinated. Except, of course for those illegally crossing our border.

I’d guess they number in the thousands, which is still sizeable. About 50,000 kids are home birthed each year. There’s probably quite a bit of overlap between the homebirthed/homeschooled/unvaxxed categories.

There are other demographics who would need help obtaining a passport. Over 65, for example, or living in a rural area with no nearby passport office.

[Anonymous]

So if you are older you run into the problem that a lot of older courthouse have burned down, taking original birth certificates and marriage licenses with them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you have a passport, why do you need a real id?

I got one because I flu domestically several times a year and access federal courts for my job. Carrying my passport each time is a great opportunity to lose it/ have it stolen.

Get a Passport card.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

e someone with a home birth and no social security number who is having trouble proving her identity - esp if parents didn’t believe in vaccination or public school. They turn 18 and are basically screwed, they need a lawyers help to sort it out!

How many people do you think this applies to?

As for the home birth and no social security number, in the past this applied to lots of people. First step: find someone to certify you. My parents were both born at home. They did have Social Security numbers as they had worked, but when it came time to claim benefits they had to prove their age. My mom's older sister certified her age--she was only 16 months older. She (my aunt) was certified by a neighbor who was an adult when she was born. I'm not sure what my dad did, but he likely had a passport since he had been in the Merchant Marines when young.

My father's aunt used a baptismal certificate.

But, it is doubtful there are that many people who are born at home, homeschooled and unvaccinated. Except, of course for those illegally crossing our border.

I have no idea. I know this particular case because I read about someone on a reddit discussion group caught in a bind.

She was 19, her dad had tried to raise her "off the grid" for the first fiver years of her life and never applied for a SS. number for her. She fortunately had a birth certificate (state of Colorado I think). But it was a home birth so no hospital records to be able to use as secondary documentation.

And he never took her to the doctor or got her vaccinated - in Texas. She DID attend texas public schools, K-12, so she had those records as secondary documentation.

But now she's in a bind. To get a Texas state ID she needs her birth certificate PLUS 2 of the following:

Again - she has no SS card. As a young adult who never had a job yet, she has none of the other things.
She DOES have school records so that counts as one of the two.
But she really hasn't been able to get anything else -- without a SS card and a photo id!
Immunization records would be her best bet but since her dad was trying to keep her away from Big Pharma etc... she doesn't have those...

Social security card (actual card)
Form W-2 or 1099
Driver license or ID card issued by another U.S. state, U.S. territory, the District of Columbia or Canadian province (unexpired or expired less than two years)*
Texas driver license or ID card that has been expired more than two years (actual card)
Temporary Texas driver license or ID card (actual receipt)
School records* (e.g., report cards, photo ID cards)
Unexpired U.S. military dependent identification card
Original or certified copy of marriage license or divorce decree (if the document is not in English, a certified translation must accompany it)
Valid, unexpired Texas Voter registration card*
Pilot license* (actual card)
Concealed handgun license or License to Carry*
Professional license issued by a Texas state agency
ID card issued by a government agency*
A valid consular document issued by a state or national government
Texas Inmate ID card or similar form of ID issued by Texas Department of Criminal Justice
Texas Department of Criminal Justice parole or mandatory release certificate
Federal inmate identification card
Federal parole or release certificate
Medicare or Medicaid card (actual card)
Selective Service card (actual card)
Immunization records*
Tribal membership card from federally-recognized tribe
Certificate of Degree of Indian Blood
Valid, unexpired foreign passport
Insurance policy valid continuously for the past two years (e.g., auto, home or life insurance)
Valid, unexpired Texas vehicle registration or title
Valid, unexpired Texas boat registration or title
Veteran's ID card issued by the U.S. Department of Veteran Affairs
Original or certified copy of an abstract (shortened) birth certificate issued by a State Bureau of Vital Statistics or equivalent agency from a U.S. state, U.S. territory, or the District of Columbia
Hospital-issued birth record*
Military records (e.g., Form DD-214, DD-215, NGB-22)

I don't know how many off the grid kids there are out there but there likely are some!

[Anonymous]

And.. to GET a SS card now... she needs photo id!!

And proof of her life from the date on the birth certificate to the date of public school entry, which she just doesn't have.

It's a problem.

And if you are going to make this identification a requirement to vote - fine. But the government has to help her establish her identity.

[Anonymous]

I found another similar story on Reddit (another homebirth in Texas, but the details are different, and this one has both birth certificate and SSN!)

https://www.reddit.com/r/Passports/comments/1h6baj5/my_passport_application_was_denied_because_i_was/


home birth in the 1990s.
Has a long form birth certificate, but did not state born in a institutional setting. (grandma was one of the midwives, I guess?)
Has a SSN
Attended public school K-12.
Paid taxes, voted.
Is a citizen,
lack of money 10 years ago meant she gave up the attempt to better establish her birth (beyond the birth certificate which she does have)

But passport application wants more proof of early life since she wasn't born in a hospital.

Not saying they are wrong to need this information, but if it is going to be a requirement for voting in a federal election , the federal government needs to help her get this taken care of.

[Anonymous]

Oh, this is good:

Danielle Friel Otten / PA State representative

https://www.pahouse.com/FrielOtten/EmailArchive/?id=138122

The cost and effort involved with procuring a passport (currently $130 plus the cost of photos) or birth certificate ($20 in Pennsylvania, plus processing fees if you opt for online service) amount to a modern-day poll tax, deterring voters who lack the resources or the ability to travel to obtain those documents. What’s more, proof of citizenship must be provided in-person, throwing online voter registration into question and creating an obstacle for troops stationed overseas and anyone with mobility challenges or lack of access to transportation.

Rural citizens, seniors, persons with disabilities, and low-income individuals would all be deeply affected, but the greatest potential impact by far would be for married women who have taken their spouse’s last name. The requirement to present a birth certificate would disproportionately affect conservative and Republican-leaning women, who are at least twice as likely as liberal or Democratic-leaning women to have changed their name to match their husband’s last name.

As a pre-emptive measure against this federal legislation, I plan to introduce legislation to provide birth certificates free of charge to Pennsylvanians, with no application fees or processing fees, to ensure that as many Pennsylvanians as possible are able to obtain the proof of identity documents necessary to protect their right to vote. My bill would require the state to provide one free copy upon request every 10 years. Additional copies within a 10-year period would still incur the regular fee.

For Pennsylvanians whose names have changed since birth, whether for marriage or any other reason, obtaining an official birth certificate is still often the first step in updating other proof of identity documents so that names are consistent across all forms of identification.

(snip)

The process of obtaining a REAL ID has been a hassle for many constituents, especially married women who have changed their name and individuals who added a middle name that did not appear on their birth certificate, such as a confirmation name.


To obtain a REAL ID, your name must be consistent across all forms of ID, meaning the name on your passport or official birth certificate must match the name on your proof of social security document and the name on your proof of residency documents.

While this may seem straightforward, it has proven difficult for many constituents. For instance, many birth certificates issued prior to 1975 did not contain a raised seal and are no longer accepted as official state documents. And women needing to show proof of name change due to marriage need to provide the official marriage certificate filed with the county courthouse – not the certificate issued by the church, which is what most people have. And if you adopted your confirmation name as your middle name, and that middle name appears on your social security card and driver’s license, but not your birth certificate, you may need to obtain a new proof of social security that reflects the name on your birth certificate.

The difficulty of obtaining a REAL ID offers a a preview of the many obstacles that the SAVE Act would create for voters. To make things more confusing, it seems that a REAL ID would not qualify as proof of citizenship under the SAVE Act, because people who are legal residents but not citizens are permitted to obtain a REAL ID.

I have still suggested to anyone obtaining a REAL ID that it may be a good idea to say “Yes” to the automatic voter registration option at the driver’s license center to ensure that the name on your new REAL ID-compliant driver’s license matches the name on your voter registration card, to keep all forms of ID as consistent as possible in case the SAVE Act or any other change to Voter ID requirements be signed into law.

[Anonymous]

There are a lot of kids with bad parents out there, ones that won't give their kids their SS card as a way of controlling them or the parents are so dysfunctional they lost them.

I made sure to get my kid a stare photo ID from the time he was about 10 in addition to a passport and hus birth certificate.

[Anonymous]

While this may seem straightforward, it has proven difficult for many constituents. For instance, many birth certificates issued prior to 1975 did not contain a raised seal and are no longer accepted as official state documents. And women needing to show proof of name change due to marriage need to provide the official marriage certificate filed with the county courthouse – not the certificate issued by the church, which is what most people have. And if you adopted your confirmation name as your middle name, and that middle name appears on your social security card and driver’s license, but not your birth certificate, you may need to obtain a new proof of social security that reflects the name on your birth certificate.

FWIW, when I married, one of the first things I did was go to the Social Security office. The official marriage certificate was required. I don't know who wrote this, but I think most people know that.
I think the name thing can be worked out. I happen to have taken my maiden surname as my middle name--I am from the South and that is customary.

[Anonymous]

The cost and effort involved with procuring a passport (currently $130 plus the cost of photos) or birth certificate ($20 in Pennsylvania, plus processing fees if you opt for online service) amount to a modern-day poll tax, deterring voters who lack the resources or the ability to travel to obtain those documents. What’s more, proof of citizenship must be provided in-person, throwing online voter registration into question and creating an obstacle for troops stationed overseas and anyone with mobility challenges or lack of access to transportation.

Bolded is not true. The military ID card is a "real ID." And, most troops stationed overseas would have a passport.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The cost and effort involved with procuring a passport (currently $130 plus the cost of photos) or birth certificate ($20 in Pennsylvania, plus processing fees if you opt for online service) amount to a modern-day poll tax, deterring voters who lack the resources or the ability to travel to obtain those documents. What’s more, proof of citizenship must be provided in-person, throwing online voter registration into question and creating an obstacle for troops stationed overseas and anyone with mobility challenges or lack of access to transportation.

Bolded is not true. The military ID card is a "real ID." And, most troops stationed overseas would have a passport.

Can military ID be used as proof of citizenship though? Because that's what we are really talking about. Even Real ID doesn't necessarily prove citizenship.

This paragraph is talking about passports. If troops stationed abroad (and spouses and kids) don't have passports for whatever reason - can they get them while stationed abroad? Or do they have to return home?

[Anonymous]

This article says the SAVE act will accept "U.S. military ID card with accompanying military record of service showing U.S. as birthplace"

What about spouses, though? They can't use military ID + military record to show birthplace?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This article says the SAVE act will accept "U.S. military ID card with accompanying military record of service showing U.S. as birthplace"

What about spouses, though? They can't use military ID + military record to show birthplace?

Dependent's card is a real ID. In order to get a dependent card you have to have birth certificate and marriage license. Not sure how it works for foreign born spouse, but definitely have to have marriage license.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

While this may seem straightforward, it has proven difficult for many constituents. For instance, many birth certificates issued prior to 1975 did not contain a raised seal and are no longer accepted as official state documents. And women needing to show proof of name change due to marriage need to provide the official marriage certificate filed with the county courthouse – not the certificate issued by the church, which is what most people have. And if you adopted your confirmation name as your middle name, and that middle name appears on your social security card and driver’s license, but not your birth certificate, you may need to obtain a new proof of social security that reflects the name on your birth certificate.

FWIW, when I married, one of the first things I did was go to the Social Security office. The official marriage certificate was required. I don't know who wrote this, but I think most people know that.
I think the name thing can be worked out. I happen to have taken my maiden surname as my middle name--I am from the South and that is customary.

Yes - it can usually be worked out.

Older people, like my 85 year old mother, had different standards applied to their documentation years ago. They are the ones who (sometimes) are experiencing difficulty now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This article says the SAVE act will accept "U.S. military ID card with accompanying military record of service showing U.S. as birthplace"

What about spouses, though? They can't use military ID + military record to show birthplace?

Dependent's card is a real ID. In order to get a dependent card you have to have birth certificate and marriage license. Not sure how it works for foreign born spouse, but definitely have to have marriage license.

Honestly I am not that concerned about military troops and dependents and their ability to prove citizenship.

It looks like the military will help them out with no-fee civilian passports, and they either encourage, or require, dependents to have passports before being deployed. That is as it should be.

I'm more concerned with the older/disabled.