The Obsession With Top Schools Is Sad

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you think UMC/rich people look down on big state flagship football schools? They are popular and have low acceptance rates- is this looked down upon?

I think there is a certain segment of the population that wants no part of a public university. The negative perception seems to come down to two main factors: size and snobbery.

First, many parents are intimidated by sending their children to large schools where there may be less individualized attention and support from the institution and professors. Second, public universities often have a mission to educate a broader segment of students, which can run counter to elitist and pretentious attitudes.

Think about it: Which sounds more exclusive? "My child is studying engineering at Tufts or Dartmouth" versus "My child is studying engineering at University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign." The engineering programs at Tufts or Dartmouth can't touch UIUC's in terms of rankings and reputation, but attending the private institutions sounds more prestigious to many people.

I agree with a lot of what you wrote, but your second paragraph is unnecessarily skewed for the point being made a bout size (note the bolded word choices). I value small schools. My kids picked small schools that are not discussed on here, so are no elitist or prestigious. I'm not "intimidated" by big schools. I have experienced in and know the value of having college courses that are small groups with tenured professors for four years -- and it isn't attention and support in a negative coddling way; it is interest and teaching and valuing the student's educational journey. I have experienced the difference between a professor whose calling is teaching undergrads versus getting grants and publishing, while hating the time in the classroom because it gets in the way of the research. Not saying all professors are one way or the other, but on balance, the advantage here goes to the small private college. Yes, a given kid can develop a great mentoring relationship with a professor at a big school, but it's not the norm for the vast majority of students at big state schools.

On the flip side, if a kid really wants the big school football and fraternity experience, they would hate a small college, and I wouldn't force it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The top CS or bust group is not a good one to be in for undergrad if the school isn't great overall or the fit isn't great. Listen to Zuck and others and get a well-rounded education now (it isn't 2018).

zuck went to harvard....

Harvard is "only" top 10 globally for CS for the rankings:https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/2025/subject-ranking/computer-science

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you think UMC/rich people look down on big state flagship football schools? They are popular and have low acceptance rates- is this looked down upon?

The engineering programs at Tufts or Dartmouth can't touch UIUC's in terms of rankings and reputation, but attending the private institutions sounds more prestigious to many people.

Here is the problem.

The obsession is everywhere. For engineering/CS, the snobs go by the CS ranking, in which UIUC is a top 5 school, others in T5 including Cal, Stanford, MIT, CMU. You can't imagine how they look down on Tufts / Dartmouth.

The CS prestige whores think it's either CS T5 or bust. They don't care about fit. Their kids might thrive at Tufts/Dartmouth engineering, but that doesn't matter.

I pay for my kids to have a useful degree to make good living. Not for them to "thrive" at some no one campus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you think UMC/rich people look down on big state flagship football schools? They are popular and have low acceptance rates- is this looked down upon?

I think there is a certain segment of the population that wants no part of a public university. The negative perception seems to come down to two main factors: size and snobbery.

First, many parents are intimidated by sending their children to large schools where there may be less individualized attention and support from the institution and professors. Second, public universities often have a mission to educate a broader segment of students, which can run counter to elitist and pretentious attitudes.

Think about it: Which sounds more exclusive? "My child is studying engineering at Tufts or Dartmouth" versus "My child is studying engineering at University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign." The engineering programs at Tufts or Dartmouth can't touch UIUC's in terms of rankings and reputation, but attending the private institutions sounds more prestigious to many people.

I agree with a lot of what you wrote, but your second paragraph is unnecessarily skewed for the point being made a bout size (note the bolded word choices). I value small schools. My kids picked small schools that are not discussed on here, so are no elitist or prestigious. I'm not "intimidated" by big schools. I have experienced in and know the value of having college courses that are small groups with tenured professors for four years -- and it isn't attention and support in a negative coddling way; it is interest and teaching and valuing the student's educational journey. I have experienced the difference between a professor whose calling is teaching undergrads versus getting grants and publishing, while hating the time in the classroom because it gets in the way of the research. Not saying all professors are one way or the other, but on balance, the advantage here goes to the small private college. Yes, a given kid can develop a great mentoring relationship with a professor at a big school, but it's not the norm for the vast majority of students at big state schools.

On the flip side, if a kid really wants the big school football and fraternity experience, they would hate a small college, and I wouldn't force it.

DP. The size issue can occur in public universities as well as in private ones. Columbia, for example, has classes that hold hundreds of students, in which the students go to a theater size classroom. Nonetheless, public universities more often than not run into this issue. But I agree this is less of a prestige whore issue. And that is why many parents prefer SLACs over Ivies for a superior undergrad education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you think UMC/rich people look down on big state flagship football schools? They are popular and have low acceptance rates- is this looked down upon?

The engineering programs at Tufts or Dartmouth can't touch UIUC's in terms of rankings and reputation, but attending the private institutions sounds more prestigious to many people.

Here is the problem.

The obsession is everywhere. For engineering/CS, the snobs go by the CS ranking, in which UIUC is a top 5 school, others in T5 including Cal, Stanford, MIT, CMU. You can't imagine how they look down on Tufts / Dartmouth.

The CS prestige whores think it's either CS T5 or bust. They don't care about fit. Their kids might thrive at Tufts/Dartmouth engineering, but that doesn't matter.

I pay for my kids to have a useful degree to make good living. Not for them to "thrive" at some no one campus.

The dictionary definition of 'thrive' is 'to prosper, be fortunate or successful.'

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you think UMC/rich people look down on big state flagship football schools? They are popular and have low acceptance rates- is this looked down upon?

The engineering programs at Tufts or Dartmouth can't touch UIUC's in terms of rankings and reputation, but attending the private institutions sounds more prestigious to many people.

Here is the problem.

The obsession is everywhere. For engineering/CS, the snobs go by the CS ranking, in which UIUC is a top 5 school, others in T5 including Cal, Stanford, MIT, CMU. You can't imagine how they look down on Tufts / Dartmouth.

The CS prestige whores think it's either CS T5 or bust. They don't care about fit. Their kids might thrive at Tufts/Dartmouth engineering, but that doesn't matter.

I pay for my kids to have a useful degree to make good living. Not for them to "thrive" at some no one campus.

https://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report/best-schools-by-majors/computer-science

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you think UMC/rich people look down on big state flagship football schools? They are popular and have low acceptance rates- is this looked down upon?

The engineering programs at Tufts or Dartmouth can't touch UIUC's in terms of rankings and reputation, but attending the private institutions sounds more prestigious to many people.

Here is the problem.

The obsession is everywhere. For engineering/CS, the snobs go by the CS ranking, in which UIUC is a top 5 school, others in T5 including Cal, Stanford, MIT, CMU. You can't imagine how they look down on Tufts / Dartmouth.

The CS prestige whores think it's either CS T5 or bust. They don't care about fit. Their kids might thrive at Tufts/Dartmouth engineering, but that doesn't matter.

I pay for my kids to have a useful degree to make good living. Not for them to "thrive" at some no one campus.

https://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report/best-schools-by-majors/computer-science

This is futile. The CS prestige whores will next cherry pick CS-only graduate's early career salary, proving that going to UIUC versus Dartmouth can "make good living".

They will not stop there, they will then provide quant job salary of UIUC graduates to prove that you are wrong.

Just wait ...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you think UMC/rich people look down on big state flagship football schools? They are popular and have low acceptance rates- is this looked down upon?

The engineering programs at Tufts or Dartmouth can't touch UIUC's in terms of rankings and reputation, but attending the private institutions sounds more prestigious to many people.

Here is the problem.

The obsession is everywhere. For engineering/CS, the snobs go by the CS ranking, in which UIUC is a top 5 school, others in T5 including Cal, Stanford, MIT, CMU. You can't imagine how they look down on Tufts / Dartmouth.

Ummm. You left out Georgia Tech which ranks #4 overall in Engineering and #2 -#5 in most engineering disciplines. But, continue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is just this site and the massive combo of wealth and anxiety.

It's most places that are UMC+ and not much LMC/LC.

Maybe UMC+ but that is a small fraction of society. I'm in a MC/UMC area (lots of doctors, attorneys but not big law, business owners, accountants, fire department senior people, some professors...) and I do not see this obsession at all.

So you have the real world in your area. If you chose to live in and attend public schools in a mostly UMC+ area, you start to see this obsession. And it definately is worse in the mid atlantic/Northeast versus say the west coast. But it's there as well. And the higher the income levels go, the more you see it.

Grew up in the Midwest and now live In The South. There are pockets of it everywhere, especially in affluent pockets.

I grew up in the Midwest and my family is still there. It is NOT like the East coast at all. Most people go to a local or state college, nbd. There isn’t crazy college prep, tutors, coaches, consultants etc. My Midwest nephew went into his ACT cold. No prep. My other nephew was not a great student so my relatives enrolled him in a brief SAT class. Sure, there might be pockets that are slightly different but this is the norm for MC and even UMC families.

When I first got to the East coast for school years ago, I was stunned to hear the help other students had. And from what I can see, it’s only gotten worse.

I agree with the above poster, encourage your kids to be founders and entrepreneurs. I’m highly educated and went to grad school. I work for a co run by a guy who I’m fairly certain dropped out of college or went to a total no name bc none of his shiny corporate bios mention school.

Yeah people here live in a bubble. In the Midwest, no one goes to Ivys or even applies to t20's. Literally none.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is just this site and the massive combo of wealth and anxiety.

It's most places that are UMC+ and not much LMC/LC.

Maybe UMC+ but that is a small fraction of society. I'm in a MC/UMC area (lots of doctors, attorneys but not big law, business owners, accountants, fire department senior people, some professors...) and I do not see this obsession at all.

So you have the real world in your area. If you chose to live in and attend public schools in a mostly UMC+ area, you start to see this obsession. And it definately is worse in the mid atlantic/Northeast versus say the west coast. But it's there as well. And the higher the income levels go, the more you see it.

Grew up in the Midwest and now live In The South. There are pockets of it everywhere, especially in affluent pockets.

I grew up in the Midwest and my family is still there. It is NOT like the East coast at all. Most people go to a local or state college, nbd. There isn’t crazy college prep, tutors, coaches, consultants etc. My Midwest nephew went into his ACT cold. No prep. My other nephew was not a great student so my relatives enrolled him in a brief SAT class. Sure, there might be pockets that are slightly different but this is the norm for MC and even UMC families.

When I first got to the East coast for school years ago, I was stunned to hear the help other students had. And from what I can see, it’s only gotten worse.

I agree with the above poster, encourage your kids to be founders and entrepreneurs. I’m highly educated and went to grad school. I work for a co run by a guy who I’m fairly certain dropped out of college or went to a total no name bc none of his shiny corporate bios mention school.

Yeah people here live in a bubble. In the Midwest, no one goes to Ivys or even applies to t20's. Literally none.

Midwest person here. My kid is going to Notre Dame. A lot of kids apply to schools like ND and Northwestern in the Midwest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you think UMC/rich people look down on big state flagship football schools? They are popular and have low acceptance rates- is this looked down upon?

I think there is a certain segment of the population that wants no part of a public university. The negative perception seems to come down to two main factors: size and snobbery.

First, many parents are intimidated by sending their children to large schools where there may be less individualized attention and support from the institution and professors. Second, public universities often have a mission to educate a broader segment of students, which can run counter to elitist and pretentious attitudes.

Think about it: Which sounds more exclusive? "My child is studying engineering at Tufts or Dartmouth" versus "My child is studying engineering at University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign." The engineering programs at Tufts or Dartmouth can't touch UIUC's in terms of rankings and reputation, but attending the private institutions sounds more prestigious to many people.

I'd be proud to say that my child is studying whatever at the University of Michigan, North Carolina, California-Berkeley, Virginia, California-Los Angeles, Maryland et al. I don't care how "exclusive" or non-"exclusive" that sounds; I'll look anyone whose DC's at one of those private schools in the eye and say that, and feel not an iota lesser than.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is just this site and the massive combo of wealth and anxiety.

It's most places that are UMC+ and not much LMC/LC.

Maybe UMC+ but that is a small fraction of society. I'm in a MC/UMC area (lots of doctors, attorneys but not big law, business owners, accountants, fire department senior people, some professors...) and I do not see this obsession at all.

So you have the real world in your area. If you chose to live in and attend public schools in a mostly UMC+ area, you start to see this obsession. And it definately is worse in the mid atlantic/Northeast versus say the west coast. But it's there as well. And the higher the income levels go, the more you see it.

Grew up in the Midwest and now live In The South. There are pockets of it everywhere, especially in affluent pockets.

I grew up in the Midwest and my family is still there. It is NOT like the East coast at all. Most people go to a local or state college, nbd. There isn’t crazy college prep, tutors, coaches, consultants etc. My Midwest nephew went into his ACT cold. No prep. My other nephew was not a great student so my relatives enrolled him in a brief SAT class. Sure, there might be pockets that are slightly different but this is the norm for MC and even UMC families.

When I first got to the East coast for school years ago, I was stunned to hear the help other students had. And from what I can see, it’s only gotten worse.

I agree with the above poster, encourage your kids to be founders and entrepreneurs. I’m highly educated and went to grad school. I work for a co run by a guy who I’m fairly certain dropped out of college or went to a total no name bc none of his shiny corporate bios mention school.

Yeah people here live in a bubble. In the Midwest, no one goes to Ivys or even applies to t20's. Literally none.

Stop with the “literally.” I live in a slightly above average suburb of Detroit, & the local high school is mediocre. In the past decade I’ve seen local kids go to Harvard, Princeton, Penn, Chicago, Northwestern, Emory, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You should convey to kids well before they apply that with so many amazing people who are smart and great at different things, there really is no notion of desert in elite college admissions.

It is also what parents often fail to grasp. Your child doesn't "deserve it" (neither does mine).

What does this mean? No one deserves it?