Turning down merit for full pay

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a dancer also, a junior who wants to double major so we’ve been having the same types of conversations, and I would just worry about what happens to the merit aid if she were to get injured and had to drop out of the dance program. Or if she couldn’t get the classes she needed to complete both majors in 4 years. Adding a 5th year with no merit would more than make up for the cost difference. I feel like double majoring with dance is hard enough as it is but would seem like such a bigger burden if her heart isn’t in it.

Have you made a decision yet, OP? The above seems like good advice. Have a conversation with your DC about how dance fits with her academic goals. And how she’d feel at GW if she couldn’t dance/double major/graduate in four years? The idea of the double major is always better in theory than in practice. What will she do with a major in dance that she can’t by just pursuing it on her own/in a less structured way?

OTOH, the poster who talked about how little environmental science jobs pay has a good point!

GW and Conn College are just so so different from WM. I would be inclined to go with her gut if you can swing it financially. Like, with no reduction of retirement savings and no effect on vacations etc. Good luck! Tell us what she chose- hard choice! Nice to have options though!

No decision yet but she's getting closer to W&M. She's concerned about feeling trapped as a dance major by a scholarship. She wants to dance at a high level in college and beyond but wants her primary career to be focused on environmental science and policy. I worry that given her career goals, a dance double major may be too much for her to balance and she doesn't want to sacrifice her academics for dance. Of course, she wants it all - the highest level dance and the highest level academics - all for the low low price of ... but she realizes that's not realistic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DD is fortunate to have good options to consider and feels very grateful but conflicted. She was accepted to six schools, five of which offered generous merit and/or talent scholarships. The sixth school offered nothing but acceptance, which was a reach. She’s feeling guilty about wanting the more prestigious school she loves when the other schools seem to love her more. We have the money to pay for the sixth school (OOS public), but it will hurt. Thoughts? Advice?

Depends how much "it will hurt"? Can you pay for $70K/year and need to take fed and parent loans for the last $20? Or is it "we can afford $40K/year and will be taking $50K/year in loans"?

Either way, it's time to have an honest discussion with your kid about finances. Sit them down, figure out what the average starting salary is for their major, what it is 5-10 years, etc. Then go thru details about COLA in the city/area they might want to live. Apartment rent, utlitilies, streaming, Internet, Groceries, Car payments, insurance, saving for Roth IRA, saving for retirement in 401K, and everything else that makes a real budget for a 22-30 yo.
Then show them how much those loans (assuming you will make them assume the loans after graduation) will cost them monthly and for HOW many YEARS.
Because even $80K in loans is a LOT of money

Now, did you discuss finances before? Does your kid know that you can really only help pay a certain amount for college? Because if "it's going to hurt", I'd highly recommend selecting one of the 5 with excellent merit. Your kid cannot take out more than $27K total for 4 years in federal loans. And I personally would not allow them to take on more (which means you as a parent dont' take on more)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ooh, good question. DC is in a similar situation. We’re trying not to make it all about the $$ but a difference of $50K per year is hard to totally discount.

Because it IS!!!! Unless the money is already saved in 529 and the parents are on track for retirement, it is not recommended to take on loans like that.
It simply isn't worth it

[Anonymous]

Kids want to report prestige on social media.

I get it. It's hard.

But, W&M, while a great school, in a few years, no one will care. But she will be carrying the debt for years to come, maybe even a decade or more.

Prestige only matters because you make it matter. most people don't care where you go to college after about 5 years of working.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Seems like there was a parent on here recently who was not happy that they sent their DD to her expensive reach, then was upset that she couldn't afford to do the other things the other kids were doing. Spring Break I think might have been the tipping point.

If she can't, that could push her out of a friend group.

As a Work study/major FA student at what is now a $90K+ school, I can relate. Even 35+ years ago. 65% of the students qualified for NO FA at all. So they were UMC+/Wealthy.
I gravitated towards kids like me (WS, always having to work on breaks), simply because its hard to be friends with people who can go downtown on Friday night and out to dinner and out to bars/shows, then Sat want to do somethings that also cost money.
I could literally choose to spend $5-10 total each weekend, and some it was none (if I was waiting for my paycheck).

Not to mention the spring break trips and xmas trips skiing, etc. hard to really be good friends with someone who has endless money to spend and you literally have very little.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here and her top choices that offered talent scholarships are GWU, Connecticut College, and JMU (OOS). She wants to major in environmental science. W&M is a better fit for her academically and socially. Her scholarships are tied to her double majoring in dance. W&M offers a dance minor and performance opportunities without the pressure of a double major. But no merit. When I said that it would hurt to turn down the scholarships, it’s more the principal than the money. We can afford W&M if it’s the best choice.

Forgot to mention that her scholarships are not full ride. After merit, the price differential is $10k-$20k/year.

I would not do GW or JMU. Conn College is strong for enviro science, but if W&M checks all the boxes (and it's also strong wrt enviro science), I think it is worth it to spend an extra 10-20K/year

OP here. I believe W&M checks some boxes that CC doesn't, most importantly, it's better known in the DC area where DD wants to end up. Her original career goal was to work for the EPA, Justice, or Fish & Wildlife, but since January she's pivoted to nonprofits like National Geographic, Nature Conservancy, Conservation International, World Wildlife Fund, etc. W&M has strong internships in DC and CC's market is closer to NYC and Boston. She also prefers a mid-sized school to a SLAC.

Go for merit. Don't carry debt. Environmental science jobs don't pay that well.

[Anonymous]

Non profits do t pay well either.

Think about ROO.

[Anonymous]

OP here and we won't be taking out loans or sacrificing our retirement. DD won't be expected to carry debt either. "Hurt" is relative and perhaps an overstatement. We have the money, but don't know if it's a smart financial choice to pay more than necessary on college.

[Anonymous]

I would never turn down the option of money if one of the other schools is comparable

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here and her top choices that offered talent scholarships are GWU, Connecticut College, and JMU (OOS). She wants to major in environmental science. W&M is a better fit for her academically and socially. Her scholarships are tied to her double majoring in dance. W&M offers a dance minor and performance opportunities without the pressure of a double major. But no merit. When I said that it would hurt to turn down the scholarships, it’s more the principal than the money. We can afford W&M if it’s the best choice.

Forgot to mention that her scholarships are not full ride. After merit, the price differential is $10k-$20k/year.

So unless that $10-20K are a hardship for you (ie not saving for retirement), you let her attend W&M if she wants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here and her top choices that offered talent scholarships are GWU, Connecticut College, and JMU (OOS). She wants to major in environmental science. W&M is a better fit for her academically and socially. Her scholarships are tied to her double majoring in dance. W&M offers a dance minor and performance opportunities without the pressure of a double major. But no merit. When I said that it would hurt to turn down the scholarships, it’s more the principal than the money. We can afford W&M if it’s the best choice.

Forgot to mention that her scholarships are not full ride. After merit, the price differential is $10k-$20k/year.

You can afford it, but "it will hurt". Hurt what? Not being able to take vacations? Retirement? If the former, yea that sucks, but nbd. If the latter, that's a deal breaker. No one will loan you money in retirement when you don't have a job, and you don't know what the stock market will do in the next couple of years.

If she will minor in dance, which IMO is still a time sucker, will she have time to work a PT job? Because it will be even harder for you to pay for the spring break trips, the personal expenses -- clothing, hair care products, etc.. girls are expensive.. I have a 16 yr old.

I have a dancer, not major or minor, but one who spent15-20hrs/week+ in HS and spends 10+ still in college. She would dance not matter what. It's actually a stress reliever and where she is with people she loves. So rather than viewing it as a "time sucker" view it as the best stress reliever around, and getting credit (minor) for something she'd most likely be putting hours into anyhow

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here and her top choices that offered talent scholarships are GWU, Connecticut College, and JMU (OOS). She wants to major in environmental science. W&M is a better fit for her academically and socially. Her scholarships are tied to her double majoring in dance. W&M offers a dance minor and performance opportunities without the pressure of a double major. But no merit. When I said that it would hurt to turn down the scholarships, it’s more the principal than the money. We can afford W&M if it’s the best choice.

Forgot to mention that her scholarships are not full ride. After merit, the price differential is $10k-$20k/year.

You can afford it, but "it will hurt". Hurt what? Not being able to take vacations? Retirement? If the former, yea that sucks, but nbd. If the latter, that's a deal breaker. No one will loan you money in retirement when you don't have a job, and you don't know what the stock market will do in the next couple of years.

If she will minor in dance, which IMO is still a time sucker, will she have time to work a PT job? Because it will be even harder for you to pay for the spring break trips, the personal expenses -- clothing, hair care products, etc.. girls are expensive.. I have a 16 yr old.

I have a dancer, not major or minor, but one who spent15-20hrs/week+ in HS and spends 10+ still in college. She would dance not matter what. It's actually a stress reliever and where she is with people she loves. So rather than viewing it as a "time sucker" view it as the best stress reliever around, and getting credit (minor) for something she'd most likely be putting hours into anyhow

PP here.. my DD loves dance/theater. It's a source of therapy for her. But, let's be real, it's a time sucker. She has to miss several other activities due to all the theater/dance commitments.

[Anonymous]

We are turning down merit at good schools so DC can go to their dream school. They worked really hard to be eligible and the program is like almost no other. So, we are going to be full pay. It’s not going to affect our retirement. We are lucky we can give DC the choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS will turn down Michigan engineering for full ride at UMd.

From an ROI standpoint, that was a smart choice.

https://eng.umd.edu/careers/employers/salaries

https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/median-starting-salaries-mechanical-engineering/

Would you do the same (turn down) one of HYP full pay (likely accomplished with some loans) for the full ride at UMd? Similar program ie. CS/Engineering?

[Anonymous]

Ok, I didnt read all the threads after I saw she was a environmental science and dance major.

I know 2 environmental science majors and so many fine arts majors (theatre, art, etc) that I can tell you this is a hobby and not a major.

The environmental science majors are both unexployed after graduating in 2024. I'm really sorry but you need to steer you kid a bit here. The climate will be in a deep freeze for four years at least. Believe or or not, geogolgy working in hydrolics can always be in demand but I'd love to see a W&M grad come out with an econ minor. Econ minors do well. But if you are talking a 50K a year difference to study the original plan at W&M No Way would be my pocketbook. No way.